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Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users (Read 2359 times)
outwitt
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Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Nov 28th, 2011 at 5:44pm
 
Using Methysergide for years successfully as preventive (prophylactically); but there are times it's ineffectual, or I've taken it too late.  What abortives can be used to treat the ensuing attack once methysergide's been taken and sumatriptan shouldn't be added to it?
Any suggestions?
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Brew
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #1 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 5:51pm
 
Oxygen.
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"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
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Potter
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #2 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 6:05pm
 
Brew wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 5:51pm:
Oxygen.

What he said! 

   potter
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Batch
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #3 - Nov 28th, 2011 at 8:08pm
 
I'll "third" the recommendations made so far and add... try to find an oxygen regulator good for at least 25 liters/minute...  While you're out looking...  I'd pick up the following shown below and take two of each...

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You can find the above supplements at Costco or Safeway for around $35...  20 cents a day...  Seven out of ten CH'ers have found it very effective as a preventative.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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bejeeber
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #4 - Nov 29th, 2011 at 2:42am
 
I'll 4th the recommendations Cheesy, and it's not the old type of low flow/rebreather O2 prescription we're talking about.

We're talking high flow/non-rebreather, which can be soooo much more effective. The oxygen info tab to the left of this page is a good place to read all about it.
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CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #5 - Nov 29th, 2011 at 9:16am
 
Asking for an abortive, not a preventive med: Number of us have had excellent results with this med.
---------
Headache 2001 Sep;41(8):813-6 

Olanzapine as an Abortive Agent for Cluster Headache.

Rozen TD.

Department of Neurology, Jefferson Headache Center/Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, Philadelphia, Pa.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate olanzapine as a cluster headache abortive agent in an open-label trial. BACKGROUND: Cluster headache is the most painful headache syndrome known. There are very few recognized abortive therapies for cluster headache and fewer for patients who have contraindications to vasoconstrictive drugs. METHODS: Olanzapine was given as an abortive agent to five patients with cluster headache in an open-label trial. THE INITIAL OLANZAPINE DOSE WAS 5 MG, AND THE DOSE WAS INCREASED TO 10 MG IF THERE WAS NO PAIN RELIEF. THE DOSAGE WAS DECREASED TO 2.5 MG IF THE 5-MG DOSE WAS EFFECTIVE BUT CAUSED ADVERSE EFFECTS. To be included in the study, each patient had to treat at least two attacks with either an effective dose or the highest tolerated dose. RESULTS: Five patients completed the investigation (four men, one woman; four with chronic cluster, one with episodic cluster). Olanzapine reduced cluster pain by at least 80% in four of five patients, and TWO PATIENTS BECAME HEADACHE-FREE AFTER TAKING THE DRUG. Olanzapine typically alleviated pain within 20 minutes after oral dosing and treatment response was consistent across multiple treated attacks. The only adverse event was sleepiness. CONCLUSIONS: Olanzapine appears to be a good abortive agent for cluster headache. IT ALLEVIATES PAIN QUICKLY AND HAS A CONSISTENT RESPONSE ACROSS MULTIPLE TREATED ATTACKS. IT APPEARS TO WORK IN BOTH EPISODIC AND CHRONIC CLUSTER HEADACHE.

PMID 11576207 PubMed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Olanzapine has a brand name of "Zyprexa" and is a antipsychotic. Don't be put off by this primary usage. Several of the drugs used to treat CH are cross over applications, that is, drugs approved by the FDA for one purpose which are found to be effective with unrelated conditions--BJ.
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Since this abstract was first posted Zyprexa has appeared in some lists of recommended meds for CH. [BJ]
====
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Have you considered a different preventive?

Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.

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TalMal
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #6 - Dec 1st, 2011 at 11:13am
 
Batch wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 8:08pm:
I'll "third" the recommendations made so far and add... try to find an oxygen regulator good for at least 25 liters/minute...  While you're out looking...  I'd pick up the following shown below and take two of each...

You can find the above supplements at Costco or Safeway for around $35...  20 cents a day...  Seven out of ten CH'ers have found it very effective as a preventative.

Take care,

V/R, Batch


Hello all,

I'm interested in this method and was seeking some advice.

I cannot readily get hold of Calcium Citrate and was wondering if Calcium Carbonate is a suitable replacement?

From the phot it seems you take two of each, twice daily. Is this correct?

I can only get Vitamin D3 25ug(1000 IU). Does it matter I take 10 of these to account for the 2 of the 5000UI?

Thanks in advance,
Tal
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« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2011 at 11:17am by TalMal »  
 
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deltadarlin
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #7 - Dec 2nd, 2011 at 8:08am
 
TalMal
There's not a whole lot of difference between the two.  Calcium citrate may be absorped quicker than calcium carbonate (calcium carbonate is easier on the stomach).  You need to split the calcium into two dosages.

From WebMD

Quote:
The body can absorb only about 500 milligrams of a calcium supplement at any one time, says Puzas, so you can't just down a 1000-mg supplement first thing in the morning and call it a day.

Instead, split your dose into two or three servings a day. "The best way to take it is with a meal; calcium is absorbed better that way," Puzas says.


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Batch
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #8 - Dec 2nd, 2011 at 8:31am
 
Hey Tal,

Yes...  Ten of the 1000 I.U. vitamin D3 softgels should work just fine...  There are two ramekins each with a daily dose because my wife takes the same regimen...  and she doesn't have CH...  She's actually taking 15,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and loves it.  She feels better, looks younger and has so much energy she bounces around the house and yard like a kid...  I'm strapped just trying to keep up with her...

DeltaDarlin is spot on with her comments on the difference between calcium citrate and calcium carbonate...

I'm working on an update to the dosing protocol for the anti-inflammatory regimen and should have it out in a few days...  If this update works as I expect, it should help some of the 30% who don't have a significant reduction in the frequency and severity of their CH by the end of the 3rd to 4th week on this regimen.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #9 - Dec 6th, 2011 at 12:59pm
 
outwitt wrote on Nov 28th, 2011 at 5:44pm:
What abortives can be used to treat the ensuing attack once methysergide's been taken and sumatriptan shouldn't be added to it?
Any suggestions?


My Neuro has been prescribing intranasal ketamine (50 mg/ml) with pretty good results....No interactions with the triptans that I know of.
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #10 - Dec 6th, 2011 at 1:40pm
 
Before you start taking a horse tranquilizer do get onboard the O2 train.  We got room.

        Potter
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Ricardo
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Re: Methysergide (Deseril nee Sansert) Users
Reply #11 - Dec 8th, 2011 at 11:23am
 
Potter wrote on Dec 6th, 2011 at 1:40pm:
Before you start taking a horse tranquilizer do get onboard the O2 train.  We got room.

        Potter


I would agree, go for the O2.  Just figured that he probably figured out that's a good idea based on the 5 people that recommended it in one post.  We can continuously recommend one option over and over, or we can actually list different abortives.  People like me, who don't actually respond to O2, appreciate options. 

And just to get nit-picky, ketamine is an animal tranquilizer and a medicine used in humans for anesthesia, dental work, depression, pain therapy and heroin addiction.  Just because I give my dog xanax at night does not make xanax a "canine sedative"

I'm not trying to be pissy here...I really do appreciate the fact that O2 is the best option for those that it works for....I hope you can understand how shitty it is when it DOESN"T work though, and you hear about it over and over and over....

-Ricardo
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