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I have some points and questions (Read 3857 times)
Markmitch
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I have some points and questions
Feb 12th, 2013 at 5:16pm
 
OK I am probably different from most of the people on here. Here is why: I am a disabled combat veteran and I have severe migraines due to an explosion in desert storm.  The cluster headaches started approximately  Fall/winter 2006.
The migraines make me very sensitive to light and sound. Questions:  Have you ever heard of both at the same time? I ask because I have clusters though out the night and then I get a migraine from no sleep.  And I am sensitive to light with the clusters. I am 100% disabled so getting the o2 and trex shots is easy for me. Also I wake up after the last cluster and my (cluster side) face hurts all day is this common? Thank you and may God be with you all.
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9thNerve
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #1 - Feb 12th, 2013 at 6:32pm
 
I get at least 3variants of migraines,including the clusters
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Batch
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #2 - Feb 12th, 2013 at 11:30pm
 
Hey Mark,

Thank you for your Service... Suffering from cluster headache or migraine is bad enough. Suffering from both and getting hit by both at the same time is a real bummer.

It sounds like you're seeing an understanding and trained neurologist given the ready supply of oxygen and triptans.  Is he or she at the VA?

No matter...  I suggest you see your PCP or neurologist, whoever is most familiar with your medical history, for a lab test for 25-Hydroxyvitamin D, a.k.a. 25(OH)D.  This is the serum level metabolite of vitamin D3 that's used to measure its status.

I suspect you are vitamin D3 deficient and that deficiency is contributing to both your cluster headache and migraine disorders.

I realize this might sound like an off the wall statement...  but as a fellow vet, I don't take this topic lightly, nor do I pass out bum gouge.

The normal reference range for this lab test is 32 to 100 ng/mL.  A 25(OH)D serum concentration 20 to 31 ng/mL is an indication of insufficient vitamin D3 and a serum concentration less than 20 ng/mL is clearly vitamin D3 deficient.

What we've found over the last two years is CH'ers with active bouts of cluster headaches who have gone in for this lab test, have had their results come back less than 30 ng/mL.

The exciting news is 80% of more than 300 CH'ers who started the anti-inflammatory regimen with at least 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 have experienced a significant reduction in the frequency, severity and duration of their cluster headaches...  78% experienced a pain free response, and 60% of the 300 have remained pain free.

Of the CH'ers who responded to the anti-inflammatory regimen with vitamin D3 and then had the lab test for 25(OH)D, all had their results come back in a range from 60 ng/mL to 110 ng/mL.

I suspect you might be waiting for the other shoe to drop...  Well, here it is...  Migrainerus respond to this regimen as well.  Although the numbers of migraineurs who have started this regimen is small, at 15, their response has been nearly 100% with either a significant reduction in the frequency of their migraine headaches or they've gone pain free.

My wife was a chronic migraineur for over 20 years.  She started the anti-inflammatory regimen in December of 2010 after seeing me go pain free after 17 years living with cluster headaches haunting me, and the last five as a card carrying chronic CH'er.

Since then she hasn't had a single migraine headache.  There are two boxes of imitrex nasal spray applicators in the medicine cabinet that have stayed there untouched for over two years.

The bottom line is you need to see your PCP or neurologist and ask for the lab test for 25(OH)D.  If your results come back less than 30 ng/mL, talk to your PCP or neurologist about starting vitamin D3 therapy...

If your results come back greater than 50 ng/mL, PM me your address and I'll send you a bottle of your favorite libation.

The best information on the anti-inflammatory regimen can be found at the following links.  The first will provide a complete list of the supplements used in this regimen, dosing, dosing strategies, drug interactions and contraindications.  The second link will take you to a forum where CH'ers post their experience with this regimen.

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Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Mike NZ
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #3 - Feb 13th, 2013 at 4:42am
 
Another person here with migraines and CH. And there are plenty more with more than one headache type.

I'm lucky I've never had both active at the same time though.
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Slim
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #4 - Feb 13th, 2013 at 9:55am
 
Somewhat similar to my experience.  I have been chronic with the CH for quite awhile now.  A few years ago I noticed that sometimes the CH would morph into a migraine.  I am usually pretty thankful when this does occur, but while migraines are bad, life is still worthwhile as long as the beast doesn't return.  I have many days where I will get 6 or more CH hits in a day.  The next day I usually have a migraine.  Lack of sleep triggers both types for me.  I am also very photosensitive with both CH and migraine.  Again, not to diminish the pain and suffering of a migraine, but I will take a migraine any day over the beast.  Hell, any day I don't get hit by the beast is good day for me!
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Slim
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #5 - Feb 13th, 2013 at 10:01am
 
Oh, I forgot to mention, I will often have facial pain on my cluster side after a particularly nasty ch.  Sometimes my skin will feel numb, kind of tingly to the touch, all along the side of my face.

I had a TBI when I was 17.  I always thought, without any evidence other than my personal experience, that the injury may have something to do with ch.
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Bob Johnson
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #6 - Feb 13th, 2013 at 1:35pm
 
Recognized in the literature that you can have elements of both disorders in the same cycle or two distinct types of headache. #s of such cases not welll reported but it's clear you need a headache doc skilled in managing.

Explore:

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Search using: cluster-migaine
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Markmitch
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #7 - Feb 13th, 2013 at 4:57pm
 
You are correct about the D3 I have been on D3 for about a year and a half but not the amount the site says to take.I take a daily amount of 2,000 IU daily as prescribed by the VA.
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Gary D
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #8 - Feb 13th, 2013 at 11:58pm
 
Without finding the reference I think I recall reading an account of diagnosis with both migraine and cluster in the same patient. I am not sure how one might conclude that both are present at the same time. For example: would it be unilateral or bilteral? Would there be a preamble of aura or not? How could one tell with all the symptoms going off at the same time, what was what? Indeed, how could one remember their name in such an instance?
I've had cluster attacks that managed to go into upper regions of the kip scale, then resolve into a longer term lower level of the scale approaching what we tend to call "shadow". These can least all day and even into the next and they seem less unilateral, and more surface sensitive than my typical cluster. I have often wondered if somehow there was a secondary set of symptoms signaling migraine.
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« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2013 at 12:00am by Gary D »  
 
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Markmitch
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #9 - Feb 14th, 2013 at 8:12am
 
in most cases for me a migraine is on the left worst ones in my left eye and around it . My clusters are always on my right side in my jaw, eye, cheek and ear and lately my neck hurts on the right too possibly from my actions during the attack. so after a night of 6+ pain level and hardly any sleep I wake up and within an hour I get the migraine from messed up sleep patterns. I have fiorinal for the migraines which takes off the edge but if If I take it as soon as I feel pain it works.
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Markmitch
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #10 - Feb 18th, 2013 at 10:38am
 
Well I had the worst cluster headache in the history for me but the next day I felt great-no pain no clusters for approximately 24 hours and I thought it was my last of this cycle but lo and behold the following night I got hit with 4 clusters but all very mild. I thought it was over.................. oh well I will keep my head up so to speak.
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djphrenzy
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #11 - Feb 19th, 2013 at 3:10pm
 
Markmitch wrote on Feb 18th, 2013 at 10:38am:
Well I had the worst cluster headache in the history for me but the next day I felt great-no pain no clusters for approximately 24 hours and I thought it was my last of this cycle but lo and behold the following night I got hit with 4 clusters but all very mild. I thought it was over.................. oh well I will keep my head up so to speak.


I had an almost identical experience a couple weeks ago.  You wouldn't happen to be on the Batch Regimen would you?
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Batch
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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #12 - Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:27am
 
Hey Mark,

A couple things...  The facial pain that lingers after a big hit is called cutaneous allodynia.  It's one of the lesser known symptoms of the cluster headache syndrome.  Even the slightest touch can trigger a lot of pain.

The second point is you need more vitamin D3 than 2000 IU/day.  The following chart developed by Dr. Robert Heaney, MD, illustrates the average time course 25(OH)D response to different doses of vitamin D3... 

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I've overlaid this chart with color bands that represent the results of lab tests for 25(OH)D reported by CH'ers before and after starting the anti-inflammatory regimen.  The green zone represents the range of 25(OH)D test results (60 to 110 ng/mL) from CH'ers who reported a significant response to this regimen.  As you can see, a vitamin D3 intake of 10,000 IU/day results in a 25(OH)D serum concentration of 85 ng/mL.

A serum concentration of 85 ng/mL is a little above the mid point of the 60 to 110 ng/mL cluster headache response range and it provides an adequate reserve of this vitamin D3 metabolite to cover skipped doses and immune system response.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Re: I have some points and questions
Reply #13 - Feb 27th, 2013 at 10:08pm
 
Markmitch wrote on Feb 12th, 2013 at 5:16pm:
OK I am probably different from most of the people on here. Here is why: I am a disabled combat veteran and I have severe migraines due to an explosion in desert storm.  The cluster headaches started approximately  Fall/winter 2006.
The migraines make me very sensitive to light and sound. Questions:  Have you ever heard of both at the same time? I ask because I have clusters though out the night and then I get a migraine from no sleep.  And I am sensitive to light with the clusters. I am 100% disabled so getting the o2 and trex shots is easy for me. Also I wake up after the last cluster and my (cluster side) face hurts all day is this common? Thank you and may God be with you all.


Mark,

I had a very similar experience.  I started with cluster headaches.  Taking 2000mg of Depakote daily got rid of them, but then SUNCT headaches started (similar to cluster but much shorter duration and higher frequency).  My neuro started me on Indomethacin and I began having all 3 including the severe light sensitivity.  O2 would work for the clusters, but not the migraines or SUNCT.

I stopped the Indomethacin - things improved, but not completely.  I now on the Depakote at 2000mg daily along with Verapamil 240mg twice a day.  I still get occasional light sensitivity, but am basically headache free.  I am also taking Batch's vitamin regimine and I recommend it (if nothing else, it's good for you).

Good luck.  Read the site, there are many good ideas here.
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