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sorry we're meeting like this.... (Read 2074 times)
inspector monkey
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sorry we're meeting like this....
Jul 26th, 2013 at 6:54am
 
Hi,


I've been on this site on and off, like the beast, for years and only just signed up.

I'm 31, female, married, one 5 year old son and from Huddersfield, England. I have suffered CH for at least 12 years and migraine since being 6. I have only just this week had a diagnosis. I think, hope, I'm at the back end of my cycle. This bout I've been given, maxalt, amitriptyline and propropanol, I don't think either has helped (defo not the maxalt), I think the cycle is ending. I still have some shadows, I always called it lurking, but had first pain free night last night for 4 weeks.. I had some sort of fit earlier this week (they don't know why) and the lovely doc in a and e said I have classic cluster headaches and is writing to gp to get me on more appropriate meds. I could have married him! I burst out crying and he was very concerned that I was having a hit and I had to explain I was so relieved that someone was finally listening to me. I think the main thing I'm struggling with is loneliness. No one can understand the fear and pain I feel every night... Then I found you guys. And oh no, others suffer with this, but we aren't alone anymore!

So currently I'm on nothing to help the cluster monster but high blood pressure meds. Seeing GP today so I'll see if he's listening to the A and E doc and is ready to help.

Just wanted to say hi, thanks for the help you've all already given me over the years of me lurking. And I think I'm just looking for some kind of acceptance with someone that's not going to roll their eyes at my "headache". I feel like Harry Potter when you-know-who is trying to get in his head, it nice to know I'm not going mental, being attacked by an evil wizard or just plainly the only person with this, even though it breaks my heart others doing this. I don't know how chronics cope. Hat off to you guys.

One question, does anyone else's hair hurt on the cluster side when you get shadows? It's very strange and I think why the docs kept saying migraine, they don't understand its not in my head but actually the base of my hair.

That's enough from me now.... Sorry
But mainly. THANK YOU x
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Bob Johnson
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 7:45am
 
You have an excellent support group and, given the complexity of your condition, urge you to work with them.

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They can confirn this, but believe you have the right to by-pass  local health care providers and move directly to headache specialty centers.

The combination of migraine and cluster makes for complex treatment issues and so you really need a good clinic with docs who have depth of knowledge/experience.
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Bob Johnson
 
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 8:01am
 
Thank you Bob,

I have been looking at OUCH, although I've not been in contact yet. I will do when some of this exhaustion eases and i can string an intelligent sentence together without having to use using spell check and taking forever.

I also have a very kind and generous set of in-laws who said they'd pay for me to go private if GP is unwilling to help. I will see what he says after seeing all the hospital test results and letter from A and E. I can't do another cycle unaided and safely look after my son. I think the fitting episode was due to my body saying enough is enough and shutting down for a minutes peace and reboot. But what if it happened when I was alone with my son, I can't bare to think of him alone and scared, he's too little to to see his mum like that. 

I will definitely be touch with OUCH and carry on reading these forums.  Smiley
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Bob Johnson
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 8:08am
 
We have a regular run of folks from GB re. Cluster. It's rather striking how consistent are their reports abou poor level of training/knowledge of local docs.

Mushy brain or not, suggest that working with OUCH now would be to you immediate advantage.
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wimsey1
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 8:14am
 
The meds you were put on are not front line, nor are they terribly effective for CHs. They are more suited to migraines. The kind of meds we tend to use most often are verapamil (vey high doses like 480mg+), O2 (very high flow, 25lpm+), imitrex injections, migranal nasal spray, etc. There are lots of tricks and you can learn those here. The hair hurting thing is actually pretty common. Not fun, but common. Good luck and God bless. lance
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 9:26am
 
Wimsey, those are the things the hospital doc is telling my GP to prescribe. I'm there in an hour an half so hope I come away with something that will help tonight if the beast comes back. I've got to the point where i'm sick of being prodded and poked and stuck into machines for various people to tell me there is nothing wrong. I've come to wish there was so someone will do something!

And good to know the hair thing is fairly common, it's not something i'd read about before so was beginning to think it was in my head or maybe just self inflicted from too much pulling through the night maybe, but it only hurts when it's moved or touched, definitely no brushing!

Bob, I'm gonna wait til after the docs so i can give them the whole story and get in touch with OUCH. It seems like a cracking organisation and I'm kicking myself for waiting so long. I guess I've spent the past month half hoping tonight will be the last night and half not wanting to cave in and ask for help, but for my sons sake its come to it.

Really hope you both are having good days and peaceful nights x
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #6 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 12:28pm
 
Just back from docs. Seems he's paying attention. Hes given nasal spray, did ask if I wanted the injections but thought I'd try that first. My pulse is still way too fast so hes meeting with the boss to see if he should send me to a neurologist or a cardiologist, or both. He was also concerned about my weight (ive always been super skinny) and said when we get my head sorted he'll help with that too. Feeling a great relief he's taking me seriously and is prepared to take me on and help beat the beast.
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Hoppy
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #7 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 4:46pm
 
I was just wondering, what nasal spray did your doc
prescribe.?

Hoppy.

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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #8 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 6:36pm
 
Hi
He's given me zomig which from searching on this site and others seems fairly out of date for use with ch now? I still found plenty of folks that said it had helped them though. Im confident my cycle is ending so fingers crossed I won't need to test it for a another year. I'm just so relieved its in my records now so next time I can get treated properly quicker. He was more concerned about the state of my heart I think and is keen to get that sorted. I've had 4 ECGs just this week. My 5 year old son is getting to be an expert!
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Hoppy
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #9 - Jul 26th, 2013 at 8:34pm
 
Hi, Have you heard of Imigran, it has a good record of
treating both migraine and CHs. You can buy it over the
counter at your local chemist.

Hoppy.
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jon019
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #10 - Jul 27th, 2013 at 12:33am
 
inspector monkey wrote on Jul 26th, 2013 at 6:36pm:
Hi
He's given me zomig which from searching on this site and others seems fairly out of date for use with ch now? I still found plenty of folks that said it had helped them though.


Hi IM,

If tablet...yes..worthless...

But...I use Zomig Nasal Spray as my abortive of final resort....99% effective...just danged expensive

Best

jon
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #11 - Jul 27th, 2013 at 2:40pm
 
Ooh I didn't know you could imigran over the counter, I shall look into it. And yes it's the zomig nasal spray I've got. Had the pills years ago and they did f all!
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Batch
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #12 - Jul 27th, 2013 at 4:56pm
 
Hey IM,

The hurting hair bit is likely cutaneous allodynia... one of the lesser known symptoms in the cluster headache syndrome.  Allodynia is pain, generally on the skin of the face or scalp, caused by something that wouldn't normally cause pain. 

Examples of allodynia are pain caused by mild pressure from clothing, a light touch, gentle massage, or sheets rubbing against the skin.

Call your PCP, tell him you think you're vitamin D3 deficient and ask for the lab test for 25(OH)D.  That's the serum level metabolite of vitamin D3 that's used to measure it's status.  While you're at it, have your son tested for 25(OH)D as well.

The normal reference range for 25(OH)D is 30 to 100 ng/mL, (75 to 250 nmol/L) and less than 20 ng/mL, (50 nmol/L), is considered deficient. 

Unfortunately, some physicians will interpret a serum concentration of 25(OH)D at 31 ng/mL as "Normal" so ask for the actual serum concentration when the results come back. We CH'ers need to keep our 25(OH)D serum concentration between 60 and 100 ng/mL, (150 to 250 nmol/L).

So far nearly all CH'ers who have gone in for this lab test before starting the anti-inflammatory regimen with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 have tested as deficient.... less than 30 ng/mL, (75 nmol/L).

If you want to know more about this topic please see the following link here at CH.com.

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Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #13 - Jul 27th, 2013 at 6:54pm
 
Batch that is brilliant. Thank you.

It's really is good to know I'm not going crazy with the hair hurting thing.

Right I have had that blood test already, with many others. It's at 26.8 which he said was a "little" low which I suppose is good he acknowledged it but didn't suggest getting it raised. So that's looking like I could take it higher, I'll get some vits. That link is really interesting and will look into further. My doc seems a little nervous to try things, I think he's a bit nervous of upsetting my heart further before he knows what is wrong. He asked me what my priorty is so of course I said the pain in my head! Anyhoo I already take magnesium zinc and iron. It's getting scary mentioning my boy, but I guess it makes sense. I so hope he doesn't inherit my head.

Thanks again. The puzzle is coming together. Seems I'm gonna have a lot to teach him by next week. But he appears up for it  Smiley
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Mike NZ
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #14 - Jul 27th, 2013 at 10:12pm
 
inspector monkey wrote on Jul 26th, 2013 at 6:54am:
This bout I've been given, maxalt, amitriptyline and propropanol


There is a possible issue with taking both maxalt and propranolol at the same time - Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register.

Quote:
Rizatriptan/Propranolol

This information is generalized and not intended as specific medical advice. Consult your healthcare professional before taking or discontinuing any drug or commencing any course of treatment.

Medical warning:

Moderate. These medicines may cause some risk when taken together. Contact your healthcare professional (e.g. doctor or pharmacist) for more information.

How the interaction occurs:

The cause of the interaction is not known. Propranolol may increase the effects of rizatriptan.

What might happen:

Your blood level of rizatriptan may increase.

What you should do about this interaction:

If your doctor prescribes these medicines together, it may be necessary to adjust your dose of rizatriptan. Your healthcare professionals (e.g. doctor or pharmacist) may already be aware of this interaction and may be monitoring you for it. Do not start, stop, or change the dosage of any medicines before checking with them first.

References:

1.Maxalt (rizatriptan) US prescribing information. Merck & Co., Inc. December, 2011.
2.Goldberg MR, Sciberras D, De Smet M, Lowry R, Tomasko L, Lee Y, Olah TV, Zhao J, Vyas KP, Halpin R, Kari PH, James I. Influence of beta-adrenoceptor antagonists on the pharmacokinetics of rizatriptan, a 5-HT1B/1D agonist: differential effects of propranolol, nadolol and metoprolol. Br J Clin Pharmacol 2001 Jul;52(1):69-76.
3.Fleishaker JC, Sisson TA, Carel BJ, Azie NE. Lack of pharmacokinetic interaction between the antimigraine compound, almotriptan, and propranolol in healthy volunteers. Cephalalgia 2001 Feb;21(1):61-5.
4.Scott AK, Walley T, Breckenridge AM, Lacey LF, Fowler PA. Lack of an interaction between propranolol and sumatriptan. Br J Clin Pharmacol 1991 Nov;32(5):581-4.
5.Peck RW, Seaber EJ, Dixon R, Gillotin CG, Weatherley BC, Layton G, Posner J. The interaction between propranolol and the novel antimigraine agent zolmitriptan (311C90). Br J Clin Pharmacol 1997 Dec;44(6):595-9.


Discuss this with your doctor / pharmacist (they are very knowledgeable about drug interactions).

Otherwise, as others have mentioned, this combination looks like you have just been given medication aimed at migraines and not CH.
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #15 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:48am
 
Hi again.

That is some very interesting info mike, thank you. The maxalt he gave me did fuck all so was quickly replaced with the zomig nasal spray. I've only used it 3 times, first 2 were night attacks and did nothing. Once was some heavy morning shadows that were gone with in 20 mins, even the hair hurting which usually lasts all day. I just feel very groggy and stupid! The propranolol is for high blood pressure which was present before the use of the maxalt. I'm back again next week so will mention it. He seems to be working with me and is the closest I've got to a half decent doc in the 12 years I've been visited by the beast.

Hope that made sense, not really with it today.

Thanks for your advise. I really like it here already.
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #16 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:02am
 
Sorry, not sure I made sense. The propranolol was prescribed as use for blood pressure lower-er rather than CH preventative.

I have also read somewhere, on this site maybe, that I probably shouldn't be drinking redbull with already high blood / fast heart. I have been doing for the day time shadows but think I will try without and see if it helps. Roll on winter, never had a winter cycle..... yet.
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Mike NZ
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #17 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 5:00am
 
inspector monkey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:02am:
I have also read somewhere, on this site maybe, that I probably shouldn't be drinking redbull with already high blood / fast heart. I have been doing for the day time shadows but think I will try without and see if it helps. Roll on winter, never had a winter cycle..... yet.


The concern is normally with Red Bull and similar drinks containing tauring interacting with verapamil as both taurine and verapamil are calcium chanell antagonists. People normally restrict themselves to 1 or maybe 2 a day in that case.
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inspector monkey
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #18 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 8:02am
 
Ok cool. That's brilliant. I'm not taking verapamil so will carry on with the Red Bull since *touch wood* its working. Although hubby has started to think I have a Red Bull problem. I think he's started to think I make it up. He's seen the night time attacks, sometimes, I usually pace the garden so I don't wake anyone up, but he can't understand when I say he lurks during the day. Sometimes it's worse than a hit... It's the anticipation of knowing the beast is there and not trusting when he'll pounce.
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Batch
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #19 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 8:48am
 
IM,

The following chart tells the tail... 

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As your 25(OH)D is 26.8 (ng/mL)... you are in the red zone...  and that's too low for a CH'er.

If you want an 80% chance of a favorable response and a 70% chance of going pain free of your cluster headaches...  You need to take at least 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 with all the cofactors along with some Omega-3 Fish Oil... This will elevate your serum concentration of 25(OH)D to around 85 ng/mL (the green zone).

We call this clutch of supplements the anti-inflammatory regimen.  80% of the nearly 500 CH'ers who have started this regimen experienced a significant reduction in the frequency, severity and duration of their cluster headaches....  70% experienced a pain free response.

See the following link for the complete list of supplements along with the "How To" suggestions including the accelerated vitamin D3 dosing schedule of 20,000 IU/day plus another 50,000 IU of vitamin D3 once a week.  This dosing schedule will elevate your 25(OH)D fast and safely...  and that should provide you with a favorable response.

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This regimen is very safe and far less invasive than any of the Rx medications you're presently taking...  A lot more effective too for 20 to 30 cents a day...  It's also very healthy for you. 

If you want to read about all the other health benefits from taking supplemental vitamin D3...  and all the health problems you can have if your vitamin D3 levels are low, check out the following link:

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Tell your doc you're starting vitamin D3 therapy and see what he says.  Many vitamin D3 experts would consider it unethical that he hasn't already started treating your vitamin D3 deficiency...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2013 at 9:01am by Batch »  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Re: sorry we're meeting like this....
Reply #20 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 10:24am
 
inspector monkey wrote on Jul 26th, 2013 at 6:54am:
One question, does anyone else's hair hurt on the cluster side when you get shadows? It's very strange and I think why the docs kept saying migraine, they don't understand its not in my head but actually the base of my hair.



Funny to read this because my husband, who suffers from CH mentioned this just the other day for the first time and he used exactly those words..."hair hurting."  It is strange but very specific. 
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