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amandabe

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Mexico / Canada
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D3 Regime Questions
Dec 10^th, 2013 at 10:42pm

Hello,

I am messaging on part of a good friend who has CH. We live in Mexico at "world´s end" - literally... very hard to get pretty much everything around here. This website has been very helpful for treating this cycle.

The general cycle of my friend is to get the headaches every 2 years for about 6 weeks. Thought a regular sleeping schedule she has only had night hits.

We were able to get oxygen (that we can get in land´s end, fortunately - with a few complications).

This year we just started Melatonin as a treatment as well and it has also been helpful. She is at 13 mg per night. With no serious headaches - only shadows and internal heat which can be aborted also through Oxygen.

Now we have finally got it all together to start D3ing as well. Only that the calcium is not from citrate and the first 2 days she was only able to take 7000 IU of D3 since the only presentation we could get would require 25 pills for 10000 (so we emergency shipped it in from elsewhere and it just arrived today) - so day 3 at 10,000. We don´t have K2 but she is eating cheese or chicken breast and other natural sources of k2. Also Vitamin A wasn´t possible as it was only presented in MASSIVE Doses, so also food sourcing it.

As the Calcium is in 600mgs, would it be possible to take that much, or is it better to cut it with a knife and try to get only 500? How serious is the need for it to be from citrate?

Also, any recommendation for coming off of the D3 once her headache cycle is over? I know that the recommendation is blood tests, but that is a little more than extremely complicated where we are. What would be the recommended approach? To go on taking it? Take it for a period every year?

A big thanks to Batch for all you´ve done. It´s been 33 years of this headache - with no medication - and my friend is very (VERY) happy to have found something which does help which is more natural.

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Batch

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Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must

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Re: D3 Regime Questions
Reply #1 - Dec 11^th, 2013 at 2:37am

Hola Amandabe,

Take as much vitamin D3 as possible for starters until the higher strength liquid softgel capsules arrive.

600 mg/day calcium is ok... Calcium carbonate? Do try to get the magnesium... It's the most important cofactor... 400 to 500 mg/day should work wonders.

Don't worry about the vitamin A (retinol) if you can eat a couple carrots (carotene) a day... It converts to retinol and should be sufficient... Avoid megadoses of vitamin A... not good for any of us...

Take care, hang in there and please keep us posted.

Adios, Batch

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2013 at 9:52am by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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amandabe CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 27 Mexico / Canada Gender:	Re: D3 Regime Questions Reply #2 - Dec 13^th, 2013 at 2:57pm Hello Batch thanks for getting back. - Yes is it calcium carbonate (at 600mg) - is this ok? We have the magnesium and the gels of D3 have arrived, this is her 3rd day taking the full dose. Will post again about progress. Thanks, Amanda
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amandabe

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Mexico / Canada
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Re: D3 Regime Questions
Reply #3 - Dec 13^th, 2013 at 3:32pm

Hello,

Just to update again with the progress:

For 3 days now she has been taking the full regime as well as melatonin 13mgs and oxygen to abort.

The first 2 nights on the full regime were very promising. The 2nd night had only 1 hit at 6:51 in the morning which was aborted through oxygen. Through out the morning and later in the evening she had uncomfortable feelings, but not an actual headache. Normally she doesn´t have this during the day time.

Last night however was the worst... just when we thought we were getting into the clear. There were 6 hits through the night and early morning. Any insights or suggestions?

We figure that she is in mid-cycle, or at the height. The last cycle was nearly 2 years ago and lasted 5 weeks. Right now we are close to finishing the 3rd week since it began.

Amanda

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: D3 Regime Questions Reply #4 - Dec 13^th, 2013 at 5:30pm Hi Amanda, Up the the vitamin D3 to 20,000iu /Day, and one loading of 50,000iu / a week, for one month. Hoppy.
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amandabe CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 27 Mexico / Canada Gender:	Re: D3 Regime Questions Reply #5 - Dec 13^th, 2013 at 7:19pm Thanks Hoppy, would you agree with that Batch?
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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: D3 Regime Questions Reply #6 - Dec 13^th, 2013 at 8:46pm Hi Amanda, Just a thought. At HiHerb.com you can get the whole regime on line. Natural Factors, Rx Omega -3 Factors EPA 400mg / DHA 200mg, Natural Factors, Calcium & Magnesium Citrate 250mg in one tablet, you can also get vitamin D3 5000iu. Hoppy
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Batch

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Re: D3 Regime Questions
Reply #7 - Dec 14^th, 2013 at 1:10am

Hola Amanda,

Changes in cluster headache patterns, i.e., an increase in frequency and or severity are not uncommon during the first few days after starting the anti-inflammatory regimen.

What many CH'ers have found is an accelerated vitamin D3 dosing schedule
while keeping the rest of the supplements at the suggested dose, gets them through this change in CH pattern and on to a pain free response in less time than taking only 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3.

The accelerated vitamin D3 dosing schedule includes upping the daily vitamin D3 intake to 20,000 IU/day for two weeks and adding a 50,000 loading dose once a week on top of the daily dose for two weeks.

At the start of the third week drop the weekly loading dose and lower the daily vitamin D3 intake to 15,000 IU/day for another two weeks.

At the end of the 4th week, lower the daily vitamin D3 intake to a maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day and try to get your 25(OH)D tested. The above 4-week accelerated vitamin D3 dosing schedule amounts to 590,000 IU of vitamin D3. This has proven to result in an average 25(OH)D serum concentration increase of 60 ng/mL, (150 nmol/L) on top of the starting concentration.

For example, if the 25(OH)D serum concentration was 50 nmol/L before starting the accelerated vitamin D3 dosing schedule, at the end of the fourth week, the 25(OH)D serum concentration should average 200 nmol/L, (80 ng/mL).

80% of CH'ers who start this regimen and elevate their 25(OH)D to this concentration experience a favorable response.

Adiós, take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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Hoppy

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LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE

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Perth WA
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Re: D3 Regime Questions
Reply #8 - Dec 14^th, 2013 at 3:19am

Before I started the regime with 10,000iu D3 + the other Cofactors, my Serum Concentration was zilch. After being on it for one month their was no improvement, in fact my CH's were ten times worse. I then read some folk were taking 25,000iu of D3 + a loading dose of 50,000iu D3 1/week. I did this for about one month, my headaches started to decrease in intensity. I then risked going back to the basic regime. Finaly my CH's were gone. I went for a blood test. My Serum Concentration was 67.4ng/ml. So i suppose it all boils down to where your level was at before you started the regime.

Cheers, Hoppy.

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« Last Edit: Dec 14^th, 2013 at 6:37am by Hoppy »

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amandabe

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Mexico / Canada
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Re: D3 Regime Questions
Reply #9 - Dec 14^th, 2013 at 11:30am

Hello Batch,

Thank you for your responses. Last night there were a series of hits again.

Her cycle should not last more than 3 weeks now. (Again, her cycle is usually 5 weeks and about 2 years apart). Getting a blood test here, though I agree it would be good will probably not happen any time in the near future.. (isolation).

We will start by following the first week then at 20,000 today and then by the end of the week do the +20,000 + 50,000 to make a 70,000 dose in one day.... and then If the cycle stops (as it pretty much always does after 2-3 more weeks) what would be your recommendation - to go down, go go off?

Thanks for taking the time with all my questions - it´s really helpful to have someone out there to confer with!

Thanks very much Hoppy for your responses and giving the link to HiHerb - they ship to Mexico and have everything - so I am sure we´ll make use of this in the future!

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amandabe

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Mexico / Canada
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Re: D3 Regime Questions
Reply #10 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 9:40pm

Hello again,

Just a quick update - She has had 2 nights now (and about to have the 3rd) with 20,000 IU. It seems to have made a difference. The first night there was a marked drop in intensity, although with phantoms through the night. Last night was better still, with the intensity and the times dropping.. with only 2, one stronger than the other. So it´s gone down from 4-5 to 2. So we are hopeful and will see tonight what will be the results.

When her cycle comes to an end - which it should, with treatment or not, within about 2 weeks is it okay to just stop this vitamin treatment? I know that the big and best response to this is to get the blood test - but given that we are far away from that being done - do episodic people ever need this D3 treatment only in the headache period? Are they able to come off of it after? Is there a good way to start coming down after these intense weeks of treatment?

Many thanks,
Amanda

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Batch

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Bremerton, WA
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Re: D3 Regime Questions
Reply #11 - Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 11:35am

Hola Amanda,

Sorry to be so slow in responding to your question... The short answer is your friend should stay on the anti-inflammatory regimen year-round... Chronic CH'ers don't have a choice so need to stay on this regimen year-round.

We've also a growing number of episodic CH'ers staying on this regimen year-round for over two years and a few for three years...

They've reported sailing through their usual CH cycle periods with no real visits from the beast.

We've also got a few ECH'ers who stopped taking this regimen when their cycle ended. Unfortunately, they had to go through the 25(OH)D build-up period with too many CH that could have been easily avoided had they stayed on this regimen year-round...

The health benefits of staying on the anti-inflammatory regimen with a maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 are hard to dismiss...

My wife has been taking 15,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and the rest of the anti-inflammatory regimen for over three years... and she doesn't have CH... She was a chronic migraineur for over 20 years, but hasn't had a single migraine since starting this regimen in December of 2010.

She feels great, looks great and has more energy than I've seen in over 20 years... She also kicked the heck out of 76 last week... Go figure...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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