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Aquaval

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D3 might be starting to work!
Jan 30^th, 2015 at 10:07am

I hope I don't jinx it but I started the D3 regimen to the best of my ability 6 days ago and while I still have shadows and a bit of droopy eye, I did not get any full blown attacks after about 4 am yesterday and slept all the way through the night last night with no headaches! I feel like it started to get better when I upped my D3 to 20,000 instead of 10,000. (First 2 days I did 10k then upped it to 15k then to 20k yesterday)

I am taking:

20,000 IU D3
2400 Fish Oil
500 Mag Citrate
400 Calcium
1 K2 complex

I also researched Vitamin D3 deficiency in people that take oral corticosteroids, which I have for my entire life of allergy and asthma. Very interesting indeed. I will have to get my levels checked soon.

Keeping my fingers crossed. Should I be loading any more than I am doing now?

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Peter510

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #1 - Jan 30^th, 2015 at 11:06am

Aquaval,
I'm 3 weeks into the D3 programme and while I felt things were getting better after a week, the beast has shown up once or twice since, although I haven't been hit with a Kip 10 since I started.
So, if you get hit in the next couple of weeks, don't get disheartened. Keep with the programme. It can take 4 weeks to really get your D3 levels up.
I got my bloods done in week one and will do so again at the end of next week. It will be interesting to see the results.
I'm sure Batch will advise on loading dosages.
I'm delighted it's been so positive for you so far.
Peter.

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Aquaval CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 10	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #2 - Feb 1^st, 2015 at 11:03am Thanks! Still major attack free but I just have this nagging bulging eye feeling like an attack is about to happen. Still doing 20k per day. I hope the shadow goes away too!!
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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #3 - Feb 1^st, 2015 at 1:18pm Hi, I still have lingering shadows too. Stick with it. My view is that it's taken 13 years to get like this, I don't expect it to disappear in a week. We can compare notes over the coming weeks. Regards, Peter.
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Batch

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #4 - Feb 1^st, 2015 at 10:14pm

Hey Aquaval,

Thanks for the headzup you started the anti-inflammatory regimen and the howgozit to let us know how it's working. Glad to hear you've not had any headbangers...

Regarding the accelerated vitamin D3 loading schedule dose... It's based on the average 25(OH)D serum concentration reported by CH'ers before starting this regimen at 25 ng/mL and the average 25(OH)D response to loading dose of 10 ng/mL per 100,000 IU of vitamin D3.

With a target 25(OH)D serum concentration of 80 ng/mL, that works out to 550,000 IU of vitamin D3. I selected a vitamin D3 loading dose of 600,000 IU for the simple reason we're dealing with averages and that 85 ng/mL is well below the lowest threshold of 200 ng/mL associated with vitamin D3 intoxication.

This loading dose of vitamin D3 can be taken as a single oral dose or spread out over a 4 week period. Either way it should result in a 25(OH)D response of 60 ng/mL on top of the starting serum concentration...

We've frond that front loading this schedule by taking roughly 2/3 of vitamin D3 loading dose during the first two weeks of a 4-week schedule get's CH'ers past the tipping point and pain free a little faster. Spreading the loading dose over a 4-week period also allows the body to adjust to the increased intake of vitamin D3 and the cofactors.

Given you've already a week of this regimen under your belt at an average dose around 15,000 IU/day, go ahead and stay at 20,000 IU/day vitamin D3 for the next two weeks. In addtion, take a 50,000 IU loading dose on top of the 20,000 IU taken daily with the evening meal today or tomorrow and a second 50,000 IU loading dose on top of the daily dose a week later.

Finish up the loading schedule with a week at 15,000 IU/day then drop the vitamin D3 intake to a maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day.

Wait a week after that to let your serum 25(OH)D stabilize then call your PCP for a lab test of your 25(OH)D.

Be sure to take the Omega-3 Fish Oil and all the vitamin D3 cofactors while loading. You can also increase the magnesium intake to 600 mg/day and as high as 750 mg/day.

The reason for this is when our average vitamin D3 intake is over 15,000 IU/day we start consuming larger quantities of magnesium as it's essential in generating the enzymes that metabolize vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D and 25(OH)D to 1,25(OH)2D3, the active hormonal form of vitamin D3.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Aquaval CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 10	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #5 - Feb 2^nd, 2015 at 9:27am Thank you Batch. I just realized this morning that my Magnesium Citrate caps said serving size 2 to make 250mg. so I had only been taking 250mg of magnesium. I just upped that starting today. Thank again for this!!
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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3708 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #6 - Feb 2^nd, 2015 at 10:13pm Hey Aquaval, Thank you for bringing up the following point that everyone should remember... Read the serving size to get the listed dose of any supplement... The right dose of magnesium should help. You can also double the dose of the Omega-3 Fish Oil. Take care and please keep us posted. V/R, Batch
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Aquaval CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 10	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #7 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 11:39am Whew. I slept great last night and no headache when I woke up, but just got hit hard.
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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3708 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #8 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 2:17pm Hey Aquaval, Thanks for the update... $hit happens... At least you got a good night's sleep. Stick with this regimen and you'll start stringing PF days and nights together... Take care and please keep us posted. V/R, Batch
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Aquaval CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 10	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #9 - Feb 3^rd, 2015 at 2:58pm Thanks for the encouragement! Much appreciated.
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Aquaval

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #10 - Feb 5^th, 2015 at 5:42pm

Quick update and thanks for looking! The saga continues, I am about the same as the last update. I had a whole day yesterday with no hits but I had one today. I have this constant eye pressure on my affected side that is really annoying. Feels like it behind my eye or in my sinus on that side. Anyways, hope it continues to improve. Thanks again.

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Peter510

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #11 - Feb 6^th, 2015 at 5:58am

Hey Aquaval,
Another week into the D3 (tomorrow will be 4 weeks) and I'm still getting a lot of shadows too. However, they are not constant anymore and no significant hits for about 2 weeks now.
I went back to my GP (PCP) yesterday and it was very interesting. As the shadows had not gone I was beginning to doubt the D3 regimen and wanted to ask him about Verapamil.
He is right on board with the D3 and told me that if the persistent shadows are still there, but no big hits, he believes that this is good, in that my system is adjusting to the increased D3 intake. He told me my D3 was extremely low when I got it checked 4 weeks ago.
So, he won't go down the Verapamil route just now as he believes the D3 is showing a lot of promise.
More bloods in two weeks, but he thinks I might be pain free before that.
So, as your pattern seems to be similar to mine you might get some encouragement from this. I certainly do.
Keep well and keep updating.
Peter.

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Aquaval CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 10	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #12 - Feb 6^th, 2015 at 10:58am Very encouraging Peter. Thank you!
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Batch

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #13 - Feb 6^th, 2015 at 10:37pm

Aquaval, Peter,

It appears you are both a little above the tipping point with your 25(OH)D serum concentration, no major head bangers... but still having low level CH.

You both can speed up the 25(OH)D reserve building process and hopefully going pain free a little faster by taking a 50,000 IU loading dose of vitamin D3 for two days instead of your regular dose. Be sure to keep your magnesium intake up between 500 and 750 mg/day for the next week. The other cofactors are also essential.

What to expect and why... It takes 24 hours for a given dose of vitamin D3 to be absorbed and reach a maximum serum concentration in the blood stream.

Although it takes the liver 6 to 7 days to metabolize that amount vitamin D3 into 25(OH)D, there is usually sufficient 25(OH)D available in the bloodstream after a couple days for a therapeutic effect on CH.

After that we get to the interesting part of vitamin D3 metabolism where roughly 20% of 25(OH)D gets metabolized in the kidneys into 1,25(OH)2D3 in order to pull calcium from the gut to build bone mineral density.

The other 80% of the 25(OH)D gets metabolized extrarenal (outside the kidneys) in the periphery at the cellular and genetic level into 1,25(OH)2D3.

This 20/80 split can vary and is controlled by the parathyroid glands. If serum calcium is within it's normal reference range but at the low end of the scale, the parathyroids dump more parathyroid hormone (PTH) into the bloodstream and that signals the kidneys to metabolize more 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3. This serum level 1,25(OH)2D3 travels to the gut to pull more calcium into the blood stream to build bone mineral density.

If the serum calcium concentration is near the high end of its normal reference range, the parathyroids sense this condition and stop making PTH. This makes more of the 25(OH)D substrate available to the periphery for the extrarenal metabolism.

It's this extrarenal path of vitamin D3 mtabolism where 25(OH)D is metabolized to 1,25(OH)2D3 at the cellular and genetic level that supports the autocrine/paracrine signaling and genetic expression within the cells of the trigeminal nerves... and hopefully... this prevents our CH attacks.

The following graphic illustrates the two paths of vitamin D3 metabolism

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One of the interesting parts of all this is where a molecule of 1,25(OH)2D3 combines with retinoic acid (from vitamin A (retinol) and the vitamin D3 end of this molecule attaches to a gene at a vitamin D receptor (VDR) site while the retinoic acid attaches to an Retinoid X Receptor (RxR) as illustrated in the graphic below.

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* Amended to clarify the above graphic illustrating a mechanism of action in preventing CH is one of many possible scenarios and may not be the actual mechanism that enables the anti-inflammatory regimen to prevent CH.

That said, CGRP is a powerful vasodilator and pain transmitter generated in the trigeminal ganglion during CH and migraine attacks.

The vitamin D3 metabolite, 1,25(OH)2D3, calcitriol, has also demonstrated the capacity to down-regulate/suppress CGRP production in the trigeminal ganglion. PLB

The simple explanation at this point is this is where genetic expression takes place. The molecules of 1,25(OH)2D3 and retinoic acid attach to a gene and this process unlocks the cell's genetic library of instructions. These instructions signal the cell to do any one of a number of things like divide, differentiate, produce more or less of certain products like peptides, or die.

Were it that simple, and in a perfect case, we would all be pain free in less than 3 days... Unfortunately life is never perfect and the law of supply and demand goes into effect.

It turns out that nearly every cell in every organ and tissue throughout the body needs vitamin D3 and has genes with VDR so they compete with the cells in our trigeminal nerves for available 25(OH)D.

On top of that, the friendly colonies of bacteria in our GI tract that make up most of our immune system take first dibs on the available 25(OH)D and the 1 alpha-hydroxylase enzyme that's needed to metabolize 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3.

Our immune systems run 7X24 to keep us healthy so this is not necessarily a bad thing... it's just a fact of life. What we've found over the last four years is when we have an immune response to a viral infection, bacterial infection, allergy, surgery or trauma, our immune systems consume even more 25(OH)D than normal leaving even less of this substrate for our trigeminal nerves.

Accordingly, the only way to ensure sufficient 25(OH)D and the 1 alpha-hydroxylase enzyme are available within our trigeminal nerves is to increase the supply of vitamin D3...

There are two other footnotes to this saga... The vitamin D3 binding proteins that transport vitamin D3 through the bloodstream consumes magnesium. The process of producing the parathyroid hormone also consumes magnesium.

Moreover, the enzyme that adds the [OH] radical to vitamin D3 at the 25th position on the vitamin D3 molecule in the liver in order to metabolize it into 25(OH)D3 consumes magnesium. The enzyme, 1 alpha-25-hydroxylase that adds another [OH] radical to the 1st position on this molecule metabolizing it to 1,25(OH)2D3 and it too requires magnesium.

Although the body tries to recycle this magnesium, a lot of it is filtered out in the liver as bile salts and eliminated in the GI tract. The rest of the magnesium is filtered out in the kidneys and dumped over the side in urine...

Sooo... the process of metabolizing vitamin D3 consumes magnesium, lots of it. It also consumes zinc, boron, vitamin A (retinol) and in the process it also moves calcium from the gut to the bones.

That's why all of the cofactors are so important. If any one of these cofactors are in short supply or missing, this whole contraption slows down or stops. When that happens... the beast jumps ugly, you get hit... and there's no pain free time...

I know you just wanted to know the time and not how to build a Swiss watch. That said, knowing how vitamin D3 and the cofactors work to prevent our CH makes it a little easier to understand why some of us experience a rapid pain free response to this regimen and others can take a lot longer.

Understanding this process also helps us decide what to do or try next to get pain free. The key thing here is knowing your 25(OH)D serum concentration... If it's below 80 ng/mL... load more vitamin D3 and the cofactors.

If the serum concentration of 25(OH)D is up near or above 100 ng/mL, then you need to look elsewhere for another medical condition that's triggering an immune response or driving your arterial pH too low, (too much acid).

Hope this helps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 7^th, 2015 at 9:05am by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #14 - Feb 7^th, 2015 at 8:22am Thanks Batch...I can't express my gratitude. Onwards and upwards. God bless. Peter.
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Glassman CH.com Veteran Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 203 Ohio Gender:	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #15 - Feb 7^th, 2015 at 9:39am That's a great explanation, Batch. Thanks, Gary
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Aquaval CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 10	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #16 - Feb 7^th, 2015 at 10:14am Wow, I'm going to have to read that a few times to 'absorb' it all. Thank you so much!
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Peter510

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #17 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 4:32am

Batch, Aquaval,

Weekly update on the D3. Week 5.

Things are much better. Some slight shadows, but with plenty of gaps between them and only a minor irritation. Even getting good sleep at night.

Get the bloods tested on Tuesday, so that will be interesting.

How are the shadows with you Aquaval? Beginning to recede and space out I hope. Give us an update if you can.

In summary, it's been the best week I've had in two years... Happy days. Even thinking of dusting off the golf clubs, which I haven't done since 2013.

Batch... What can I say that hasn't been said already?

Will keep in touch.

Keep well,

Peter.

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Batch

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #18 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 1:37pm

Hey Peter,

Thanks for the wonderful update. I know the feeling... I kept pinching myself for a couple weeks of pain free living after over 5 years as a chronic CH'er averaging 3 hits a day/night...

Today, it's a mater of discipline... Take this regimen and stay pain free.

Take care and thanks again for the update.

V/R, Batch

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Peter510

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #19 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 2:19pm

Hey Batch,

It's already a well embedded part of my daily routine.

Family, friends and colleagues are all very supportive and delighted with the progress. My boss in particular is really appreciative as he's been taking up some of the slack over the last 24 months while I was "unreliable" to say the least. Great guy who took a lot of pressure off me.

My wife and daughters are really hopeful for the future, which I have'nt seen for a long time.

Look at all the lives your dedication and generosity effect.

So many thanks, again.

I'll update next week after the blood results.

Peter.

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Batch

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Re: D3 might be starting to work!
Reply #20 - Feb 14^th, 2015 at 6:27pm

Peter,

Thank you for the kind words. However, there's more to this regimen now that you've found what it can do for you.

As the health benefits of this regimen, that go well beyond preventing cluster headache, are hard to argue... you need to get your wife and daughters on this same regimen. If the girls are 10 or under, 5,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and all the cofactors will do just fine. Above that, they get the same 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and all the cofactors.

I started my entire family on this regimen four years ago, shortly after I noticed all the wonderful things it was doing for me that went well beyond preventing cluster headache. My brother, wife, my three kids, their spouses, and seven grand kids are all taking this regimen.

And that brings me to Fred...

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Fred, a.k.a., Winefred, is a 7 month old wunderkind and our 7th grandchild. Born on July 7, 2014, she was rolling over and starting to crawl at 5 months and I'm positive she started to speak words in English and German about that same time... but then I'm a doting old grandfather.

Fred's at the 99th percentile in size, weight and development both physical and mental according to her pediatrician... She has never had a cold, a rash, rosacea, eczma, jaundice or any of the medical problems typically experienced by many newborns.

We attribute Fred's exceptional good health and development to the fact that her mother has been taking the anti-inflammatory regimen with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and all the cofactors for the last four years and continues to do so while breast feeding Fred...

My daughter's pregnancy and Fred's delivery were flawless and trouble free. In short this child has been on a therapeutic dose of vitamin D3 since conception and is still taking vitamin D3 today through breast feeding...

Both my daughter's OB and Fred's pediatrician are totally on board with this regimen. They were a little concerned at first, but after a couple rounds of labs came back in the green, the trouble free pregnancy and delivery coupled with Fred's exceptional good health... all that changed. My daughter's OB now suggests this regimen to all his expectant and breast feeding mothers.

A recent study of breastfeeding neonates found maternal serum vitamin D3 was passed through breast milk to the suckling neonate but not maternal 25(OH)D, the first metabolite of vitamin D3. Moreover, several studies indicate the rate of vitamin D3 transfer through breast milk is roughly one third the maternal serum concentration.

That means Fred was getting the equivalent of 3000 IU/day vitamin D3 while hooked up to cable prior to birth and she's getting the same amount now from her mother's milk.

As usual, discuss this regimen with the family PCP and schedule a round of 25(OH)D labs for all after three months...

Please believe me when I say this regimen is the best, most effective, health insurance we can get. Moreover, it covers all preexisting conditions for less than 40 cents a day.

If you want to see a growing list of medical conditions either prevented or treated effectively with vitamin D3, check out the column on the left at following link at Vitamin D Wiki:

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The black numbers in parentheses represent the number of studies conducted with vitamin D3 for each condition...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, batch

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« Last Edit: Apr 19^th, 2015 at 2:42pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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BobG CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 6422 St. George, UT Gender:	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #21 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 4:20am Batch, thanks for the link to the VitaminDWiki site. I was just going to check it out for a quick minute and ended up being there for an hour. There's a lot of interesting info at that site. And, even more important, Fred is an absolute beautiful little lady.
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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: D3 might be starting to work! Reply #22 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 5:14am Thanks Batch. She certainly is a cutie. My Grandson Jacob was born a week before Christmas and my 2 year old Grandaughter Lilah, both have kept my sanity straight over the last couple of years. I fully understand the doting Grandfather bit. I'll show the link to everyone here, certainly. Best wishes, Peter.
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