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Michael63

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Adjusting the D3 regimen
May 11^th, 2016 at 7:08pm

I have been using the D3 regimen for about 12 weeks. I have been totally PF for about 4 - 5 weeks. To say the least I am elated.

My question is this. Is there a point where the D3 should be or could be adjusted so that it will maintain the serum 25(OH)D level? I read that, to maintain the serum levels, one should take 50iu per pound of body weight. I am 6'1" and 200 lbs. That equates to 10,000 iu per day. I have had 3 serum tests done in 12 weeks and the last one shows a rise in the level previously.

I would like to maintain in the 80 - 90 iu range. I was initially at 31, then 82 and now 93.

Has anyone done this type of adjustment?

Maybe I will have to email Batch for assistance.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks

Michael

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen Reply #1 - May 11^th, 2016 at 7:25pm Hi Michael, I've been taking 5000iu of vitamin D together with the other cofactors for the past few years, and it's kept the beast at bay. Hoppy
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Michael63 CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 45	Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen Reply #2 - May 11^th, 2016 at 7:28pm Hoppy, What are your serum levels now that you are using lowered levels of D3. I don't want to get into "Beast Mode" by decreasing it too much. Michael
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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen Reply #3 - May 11^th, 2016 at 7:43pm Between 60 - 67ng/ml
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thierry

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Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen
Reply #4 - May 12^th, 2016 at 4:25am

Hi Michael,
the amount of D3 we need to stay PF seems to differ for different people.
I take 10000iu/day D3 most of the time to stay PF, however there are times -like now- where i need to take more. It is spring time here in Ireland and at the moment I'm working outside near forestry, with all the pollen (allergens) flying around, i'm getting substantial shadows, even got hit with a kip4 a few nights ago. So I'm taking 20 to 30000 iu D3 every day now. That is keeping the shadows at bay but when i go back down on the amount of D3, they come back. It's the same for me every year at this time of year. I also take -from Batch's advice- a 1st generation anti-hystamine that helps dealing with the allergens (pollens).
I'll be able to stop the loading doses and the anti hystamine in a couple of weeks and go back to 10000iu D3 to keep at a level of around 80 and stay PF.
So it's whatever works for you.
You can experiment with the doses by reducing the amount of D3 for a while and see if the beast shows it's head again.
All the best

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« Last Edit: May 12^th, 2016 at 5:37am by thierry »

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Batch

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Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen
Reply #5 - May 13^th, 2016 at 4:13pm

Hey Michael,

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear you're CH pain free.

Regarding your question about adjusting the vitamin D3 dose. The short answer is you don't need to adjust it just yet.

For starters, I listed 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 as the standard maintenance dose for a few good reasons. 1. It's very safe. 2. It results in an "average" 25(OH)D response of 80 ng/mL. 3. It results in > 80% of CHers who take it experiencing a significant reduction in the frequency, severity and duration of their CH in the first month of use.

With that in mind, it's not the vitamin D3 dose that's important but rather the 25(OH)D response... particularly if it's associated with a cessation of CH symptoms...

You're doing exactly what I suggest and that's to have your 25(OH)D tested until it reaches a "relatively stable" equilibrium concentration. I say relatively stable equilibrium concentration as there's ample data from the Grassroots Health *D Action survey of 1550 people taking 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and having the 25(OH)D lab test every six months that shows frequent fluctuations in 25(OH)D up to 25 ng/mL.

I listed the "target" serum concentration at 80 ng/mL... I should have stated it as 80 ± 15 ng/mL.

Using the above rule of thumb, a 25(OH)D serum concentration of 90 ng/mL means no adjustment is needed as long as your 25(OH)D is between 65 ng/mL and 95 ng/mL... AND you're CH pain free. The actual distribution of 25(OH)D serum concentrations reported by CHers in the online survey having a favorable response to the anti-inflammatory regimen is illustrated in the following graphic.

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There's another good reason why we shoot for a target 25(OH)D serum concentration of 80 ng/mL... It provides us with a sufficient 25(OH)D reserve to handle most immune system responses to antigens, allergens, surgery and trauma.

For example, there are at least two studies done on serum 25(OH)D response to arthroscopic knee surgery where the 25(OH)D serum concentration dropped by as much as 40% by the third day after surgery.

If the 25(OH)D serum concentration is near the lower threshold for a favorable response to this regimen, a cold, flu, infection, surgery or trauma could cause a drop in the 25(OH)D serum concentration below this threshold and CH would resume.

If the 25(OH)D serum concentration is above 100 ng/mL (and some CHers may need a serum concentration this high), neurologists and PCPs will call for additional lab tests for total serum calcium and PTH to ensure there is no hypercalcemia.

Hope this makes sense.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: May 13^th, 2016 at 5:39pm by Batch »

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Michael63 CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 45	Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen Reply #6 - May 16^th, 2016 at 2:15pm Thanks Batch for the information. I will continue with the current regimen and get retested in about 6 months. I just didn't know if there was a point where I needed less. I understand the necessity of having proper levels of D in my system. Michael
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Batch

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Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen
Reply #7 - May 16^th, 2016 at 8:33pm

Hey Michael,

The following chart illustrates the big picture...

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As you can see from this chart, 10,000 IU/day of vitamin D3 will eventually get you to the target 25(OH)D serum concentration of 80 ng/mL (200 nmol/L)... That said, either the 2-week or 4-week loading schedule gets you there much faster.

Above all, once you reach the target 25(OH)D serum concentration of 80 ng/mL, if you're an episodic type, it's best to stay on this regimen year round... That way when the next cycle comes around... it will be a non-event. Chronic CHers like me don't have a choice at this point... If we stop taking the anti-inflammatory regimen... the CH beast jumps ugly...

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Look familiar?

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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thierry CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 406 Galway, Ireland Gender:	Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen Reply #8 - May 17^th, 2016 at 1:18am Hey Batch, thanks for the great chart above. It really shows clearly the advantage of the loading schedule. I hope all is well with you and yours. Thanks for your continued research, hard work and knowledge sharing. All the best
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Michael63

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Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen
Reply #9 - May 17^th, 2016 at 11:22am

When I was first diagnosed, some 30+ years ago, it was believed I was chronic. I suffered for over 10 years without much of any type of relief. When my first neuro left for greener pastures, at about the 12 year point, I started to get remissive periods which would last weeks then months. over the last 10 years, the diagnosis changed to episodic. I was going 1 - 2+ years PF. The last episode lasted over 5 months until I began the D3 regimen.

So, being considered episodic now, I am not sure if it is remission or the D3. I will continue to use the regimen and let it play out. At this point and what we all go through, the benefit of the regimen is immeasurable.

Anything that I can do to keep the beast away, I will do. I have been down every medication road that is imaginable. This is by far the most convenient and least invasive. I feel better since starting D3 than I have in 20 years.

Thank You just doesn't say enough.

Michael

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Batch

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Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen
Reply #10 - May 17^th, 2016 at 11:49am

Thierry,

Thanks for the kind words. Although the numbers are too low for statistical significance, it appears from the survey data collected since I started suggesting the two vitamin D3 loading schedules, that we're starting to eat into the 18% of CHers who don't respond to the anti-inflammatory regimen during the first month of use... The favorable response rate for these CH'ers is pushing 85%.

Take care and thanks again for the kind words.

V/R, Batch

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Batch

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Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen
Reply #11 - May 17^th, 2016 at 12:58pm

Hey Michael,

Thanks for the update. I'm inclined to think the cessation of CH symptoms you're experiencing is due to the anti-inflammatory regimen.

That said, there's always an element of uncertainty when it comes to episodic CH'ers... A favorable response to this regimen is easy to confuse with end of cycle during irregular cycles or when it occurs near the end of a regular cycle.

The best course of action is to stay on this regimen year-round... That way when the next cycle comes around, it will likely be a non-event and you'll sail through it completely pain free.

As vitamin D3 at the doses we take unlocks the genetic book of life, enabling the body to function properly, it makes good health and a high quality of life a reality.

I've been taking this regimen since October of 2010 and my wife since December of that year... The health benefits made possible with this regimen go well beyond preventing CH and migraine headaches so we view it as a way of life... A very healthy and quality way of life...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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maryo

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Re: Adjusting the D3 regimen
Reply #12 - May 18^th, 2016 at 6:10pm

I became chronic this year. Happily, Batch contacted me about the D3 protocol. Not once, but twice, then offered some email support.

I actually took it slow -- I was doing OK with O2 as abortive. My baseline level 25(OH)D was 40. In about a month the headaches disappeared, with a level of 57.

I know it's the Vit D protocol that ended the headaches, not the Beast going on vay-cay, because I remain sensitive to triggers. Triggers never were triggers out of episode for me.

I am still doing 10,000/day, will retest in 6 months per my physician, and at that point will probably drop back to 5,000 Vit. D.

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« Last Edit: May 18^th, 2016 at 6:11pm by maryo »

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