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CH Trigger?? (Read 347 times)
Payg
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CH Trigger??
Nov 7th, 2017 at 4:22pm
 
Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to bring up a subject that I recently mentioned in a previous post that I may have found my answer to.

The story goes....my husband & I went to Wendy's for lunch on Sunday.† I ordered my usual with a sweet tea.† Sunday night I had a major CH!† I mean, probably a KIP 7/8.† Needless to say, I was totally surprised by it and my surprise stems from the fact that since I've been on the D3 regimen any CH that I've had has been very mild (Kip 1/2).† So thinking back, this is not the first time I have noticed a CH after having tea.† In fact, the year that my CH started (Jan 2016), I was making a pitcher of tea at home and having a glass or two each night.† And then for some unknown reason earlier this year, I suddenly stopped making/drinking tea.

I suppose my question for the smarter folks out there would be is there any chemical or factor in tea that could be a contributor to CH?† My research indicates that there are two substances, theobromine and theophylline, in tea.† Theobromine (a vasodilator) is used to treat high BP and theophylline (a bronchodilator) is used to treat COPD and asthma.† Neither of these substances sounds detrimental.† I know that tea contains caffeine and I'm a heavy coffee drinker (can't wake up without it!)† So I don't think caffeine is an issue for me.†

Could it be the PH level in the tea?† When I make tea at home, I usually put a pinch of baking soda in it to reduce bitterness; and I understand that baking soda also changes the PH level.† Could this be the issue--the PH level?

I just wanted to put this question out there in the event that someone might have some insight.† My Dad (who thinks he's funny) told me to test my hypothesis by having another big 'ol glass of tea and see what happened.† Needless to say, I declined to be a test subject† Grin!

Thanks for any input!

Best Wishes,
Payg

P.S.† My definition of Tea = Southern/Southeastern USA, Sweet Tea (regular or decaf) with ice in a large glass usually served with a meal or while sitting out on the front porch.† Wink




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jon019
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #1 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 8:36pm
 
Hi payg.....

...did they use aspartame as the sweetener...vasoactive and a surefire trigger for me at times (like msg)...

Best

Jon
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Payg
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Reply #2 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 9:39pm
 
Hi Jon,
With it being a chain restaurant (Wendy's), I have no idea if they used an artificial sweetener.  I would hope not!  Personally, I have nothing to do with artificial sweeteners.  When I was making tea at home, I use nothing but pure, granulated sugar.

I had a regular (not diet) decaf Coke a few weeks back and it was GROSS!  I suppose I'll be sticking to water as my beverage of choice from here on out.  If I'm feeling really brave and have a few days off from work, I might try my Dad's suggestion....or maybe NOT!

Thanks for asking!

Payg

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Mike NZ
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #3 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 9:40pm
 
Interesting post and very well caught to get the connection to tea.

Is it just one brand of team that triggers the CH or any?

Is it just conventional tea or does it include herbal teas?

Are you using a sweetener?

I'd rule out chemicals used for cleaning, e.g. dishwasher powder, etc., as otherwise you'd be hit often and not just with tea.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register - this has some good info about what is in tea, including:
  • tannins
  • bioflavonoids - e.g. quercetin
  • caffeine - unlikely to be a trigger
  • other stuff


You've really to decide if you just avoid all tea (can understand why) or if you want to experiment to see if you can enjoy some tea.


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AussieBrian
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #4 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
Here's some iced tea recipes you might like to look at. You can adjust sweetness to taste by using a bit of soft drink you're already comfortable with.

This way you'll be in charge of everything going into the pitcher.


Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

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My name is Brian. I'm a ClusterHead and I'm here to help. Email me†anytime at briandinkum@yahoo.com
 
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Payg
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Reply #5 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 9:28am
 
Good Morning, MikeNZ & AussieBrian --

I typically use tea brands such as Lipton, Luzianne or the generic store brand.† I've never had any herbal or English tea blends.† When I was growing up, we always had a pitcher of tea in the fridge.† My Mom would make at least two pitchers per week for a family of four.† †So it's not like I introduced something new to my diet.† And I always use sugar to sweeten my tea -- no artificial stuff.†

Very interesting link about some of the ingredients in tea and some yummy looking recipes too!† But, to be honest, I think I'll just swear off tea altogether.† Better safe than sorry in my book.†

Following the typical CH pattern for me, I was fine and dandy by Monday night and still am.† I have definitely recorded this anomaly on my CH chart for my Neuro.† Regardless of this occurrence, I'm still sticking with the D3 as I feel the benefits of this regimen outweigh a singular event.†

Hope you guys have a great day!† Thanks for the input!

Payg

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Mike NZ
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #6 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 2:37pm
 
Looks like it could be tea itself.

I'd try some of the herbal teas, with there being lots available. Lemon and ginger is one I love and it tastes great hot or cold.

Although I thought the US went off the idea of tea in 1773.
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Payg
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Reply #7 - Nov 8th, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
Grin...LOL!† Yeah, I think you're right, MikeNZ.† That was too funny!

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Batch
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #8 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 9:01am
 
Hey Payg,

Having been a life-long student of the scientific method since watching the first episode of Watch Mr. Wizard staring Don Herbert on TV in 1951, I love sleuthing around problems like this. 

What I've learned over the last 66 years since then, is to be objective and not jump on the first observation as the cause of whatever happened.

In your case, eating lunch at Wendy's could have exposed you to any number of CH triggers.  The problem is how to separate the different candidates besides the sweet tea.

As an example, I was making fruit smoothies several years back using fresh pineapple and bananas with frozen blueberries and strawberries mixed with a handful of fresh spinach.  I ran out of frozen strawberries so piked up a basket of fresh strawberries on the way home from work. 

The fresh strawberries looked so good when I got home from the store, I ate several of them.  An hour of two later as I was grilling some Johnsonville brats for dinner, my wife took one look at me and said "you're having a reaction to something."  I looked in the mirror and sure enough my face was puffed up, eyelids drooping and lips puffed up as well. 

I immediately popped 50 mg of Benadryl and started drinking water... I also trashed the remaining fresh strawberries....  Fortunately the swelling went down and everything was back to normal the next morning as I had an important call to make with a new client.  Showing up at his office looking like a actor from the zombie apocalypse would not have gone well.

I picked up some frozen strawberries on the way home from work and made the usual smoothie the next morning...  No problems...

Near as I can tell, as the fresh strawberries were the only thing different in my diet and I was not allergic to them, it was likely either an insecticide residue or preservative agent on the fresh strawberries that caused my allergic reaction...  I was episodic at the time and out of cycle or the tainted strawberries would have triggered the CH beast to jump real ugly...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Payg
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Reply #9 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 3:46pm
 
Thanks for weighing in, Batch.†

I suppose if I were to use the true scientific method with my hypothesis then I would definitely need to conduct another experiment, huh?† Hmmm...not sure if I'm willing to try that.† I've read your posts where you talk about going off the D3 and having the CH come back.† Don't know if I'm that brave.† Undecided

With me being a creature of habit, I suppose I've been looking for the one thing out of my norm that possibly correlated to anything that had changed since Jan 2016.† †The only anomaly I could seriously consider that Sunday was drinking tea.†

I've thought about many things since my diagnosis that could be a trigger for me...perfumes, exhaust fumes, extended exposure to sunlight, smoking, margaritas, Lay's potato chips (Lord, don't let it be!), contact lenses, high stress situations, pet hair (RIP Gizmo), etc., etc.† Nothing seemed to click until Sunday and my cup of tea.† What's strange to me is that tea is something I was raised on...now why, all of a sudden, would it be the trigger for a CH?† Regardless, I'll take your advice and not jump on my first observation without doing more investigation.†

BTW, I love the zombie apocalypse reference being that I'm a huge fan of The Walking Dead/Fear the Walking Dead.† Yeah, not exactly a great look and definitely not the impression you want to make with a new client.† Smiley LOL!

Hope you are having a great day, Batch!

Payg
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Mike NZ
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #10 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 10:10pm
 
Payg wrote on Nov 9th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
The only anomaly I could seriously consider that Sunday was drinking tea.†
...
What's strange to me is that tea is something I was raised on...now why, all of a sudden, would it be the trigger for a CH?


To really test it, you need to try that tea again and at the same time avoid anything else that could possibly be a trigger (not easy at all).

As for something you were raised on being a trigger, it could be like alcohol which for episodics who are out of cycle, this isn't a trigger, but once in cycle it becomes one.
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Batch
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #11 - Nov 10th, 2017 at 1:51am
 
Dearest Payg.

Exchanging posts with you is better than a Vulcan mind meld...  We connected.

Hugs, Peter
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stg1
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #12 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 7:45pm
 
At this point with my CH being chronic I canít really say what may be a trigger but when my recent nightmare cycle started my wife made me a cup of hot Thai tea with sugar and it appeared to ease some of the nasty shadows. Iím still looking for any possible triggers however and Iíll definitely keep your post in mind. Hope youíre feeling better.
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jon019
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #13 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 10:01pm
 
stg1 wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 7:45pm:
At this point with my CH being chronic I canít really say what may be a trigger but when my recent nightmare cycle started my wife made me a cup of hot Thai tea with sugar and it appeared to ease some of the nasty shadows. Iím still looking for any possible triggers however and Iíll definitely keep your post in mind. Hope youíre feeling better.


Hi stg,

....coulda been the tea....OR...coulda been the HOT. I used to get the best relief from coffee (before finding energy drinks) when it was nearly unbearably hot....and drunk FAST. Oddly, super cold drinks drunk fast were also effective. Some clusterheads swear by COLD showers (or a bag of peas)...or HOT showers.....or even alternating hot and cold....

...one other thought...low blood sugar was a trigger for me...I used to carry hard candies...so coulda been the sugar......

Best

Jon
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I had the blues, so bad one time it put my face in a permanent frown. You know I'm feeling so much better, I could cakewalk into town.      Taj Mahal
 
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Payg
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #14 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 4:31pm
 
Well, Everyone....I did my own experiment this weekend with just a bit of trepidation.†

We took my mother-in-law to lunch at Wendy's on Saturday.† My menu choices were the exact same as my last visit (jr. bacon cheese burger, 4 pc. chicken nugget w/no sauce, fries with ketchup) except my beverage which was a WATER.† Guess what...no CH that night.

Does it prove anything?† Maybe.† Maybe not.† I may have used the process of elimination method on this, but it was quite interesting to find that nothing happened, huh?† Needless to say, I'm still not willing to order a glass of tea just to find out the hard way.

So, Smart People of CH.com Smiley...any ideas on other ways to test this without having a big ol' glass of tea?†Any other data I should collect for posterity's sake?†

STG1, your kind words are appreciated.† I'm also chronic but doing very well since going on the D3 regimen.† Just trying to put 2 & 2 together somehow and figure this thing out.† You know what they say..."Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought him back!"† Wink

Hope you and everyone else here is doing well.†

Live Long and Prosper!
Payg
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jon019
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #15 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 5:01pm
 
Hey payg....

...I tried the horse's mouth so to speak...went to Wendy's website where they "supposedly" listed ingredients of their various products. Oddly, when clicking on ingredient listing for beverages (such as sweet tea, diet coke, et al)...it just did a boomerang back to the previous screen...tried multiple times. No info.....

...so then...a little more direct approach...texted (at their invitation on the site) the question about aspartame and diet tea. got an immediate response that they would "get right back to you". It's been a week...a reminder half way through got me some stall (that person not here right now) then nothing. My conclusion...they don't want to answer the question....which, of course, is an answer.

....if the tea comes out of a dispenser...it's a mix from coke or pepsi.....would not be surprised if it did indeed contain aspartame like MOST diet drinks(e.g. Nestea Diet ice tea definitely does).

...noted by chance in a discussion group that a restaurant supplier indicated that he delivered 6 different types of teas to Wendy's...even if there was a corporate policy...some franchises buy strictly on price. he doubted many brewed their own...which would be your best option....

...I guess I'm with your Dad....there's only ONE way to truly find out with some home brew...

...and now....as the Sioux Tribe said: "when you find yourself riding a dead horse...get off!!!"...
so I will dismount.... with best wishes.....

Jon
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I had the blues, so bad one time it put my face in a permanent frown. You know I'm feeling so much better, I could cakewalk into town.      Taj Mahal
 
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Mike NZ
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Re: CH Trigger??
Reply #16 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 8:10pm
 
If it comes out of a mixer than there is a strong chance of cross contamination with some of the diet drinks getting into the tea. It probably doesn't need much. This will be why they won't say it is totally free and why many food labels have words along the lines "...may contain..." or "...made at a factory where... (ingredients known to cause allergies) are used...".

Whilst you ordered the exact same things, apart from the tea / water, there may have been many other things different including cleaning products / how recently used, perfumes and many other things.

Even if you ordered the same tea, it could have different ingredients in it as it will have been blended or the supplier might have changed.

Only way to confirm is by doing just one thing, ordering the tea and nothing else and having your abortive to hand.
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