Posted by Mike (B) (18.104.22.168) on July 06, 2001 at 19:55:20:
In Reply to: Hallucinogenics and cluster headaches posted by James on July 06, 2001 at 11:05:35:
I wanted to mention some things but forgot.
It IS an interesting question wether such things 'open the door' or 'trigger' CH's. For me, I'd have to say they definitely did not... (I suppose I could leave it at that, but where is the fun in that? :) (Everyone groans...))
One should keep in mind that while many people use hallucinogenics for recreational purposes and have results of a wide variety. There are more serious uses. Some have already posted something along these lines. But, if you will excuse me, let me put in my two cents (Two tons? :)...
Western doctors often say that Chinese doctoring (Read: Any other way of doctoring) is maybe a little whacky and they look down on them (Hey, besides, the AMA does not approve of them! :). The Chinese say that our Western way of doctoring is an upstart way that is untried. And really, they are right. After all, what's say a hundred years of gained knowledge compared to thousands of years of gained knowledge? For instance, did you know that in traditional China, a doctor is not paid when he treats you for an illness. He is paid WHEN YOU ARE HEALTHY! Wha?!? (The AMA wouldn't like that much would they? :)
One should never out-of-hand rule out alternative's to our western medicines. Ours are often very powerful (Concentrated / synthesized / manufactured) and are sometimes quite effective at dealing with the problems at hand but at what cost to the body, mind and well being of the patient? And don't forget about vested interests (Did someone say PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES and DOCTORS?) who really don't give a crap if a percentage of the people taking there medications have their livers fall out when they take a crap or whatever as long as their making the dough.
Native Americans often use Peyote in some of their ceremonies. I have had to drive a friend out west in order that he could get some for use in some purification ceremonies with some really sick folks down here in Florida. I will not say that it was exactly fun (It felt kind of like your body KNEW that this stuff was heavy duty and you'd better respect it) but then again, having fun was not the intention. Cleansing and purification were the goal, not having a great trip. BTW, I did not have much time to analyze the whole thing because I had to help with things all of the time and was singing and so forth. I can say that I everyone was directed to injest quite a lot of the stuff by the man leading the ceremony (It was horrible tasting, powdered green goop that made you want to instantly spit it out instead of forcing it down) and I did not, like, see Geronimo or kick Custer's ass or anything at all really (Probably depends on the doseage and the background :). Mostly felt disconnected and sick to my stomach and shaking like a leaf. Most of the folks did get sick and vomited (esp. the sick ones) but I guess I didn't have time for all of that.
Anyway, many other native cultures around the world use hallucinogenics for medicinal purposes as well. You are right, I think, that it opens doors (or pathways) into the mind/spirit when one takes a hallucinogenic substance. As far as wether they are supposed to be opened: I think it is perhaps a bit like this. Recreational users often have some pretty bizzare results because they are randomly opening things up to whatever is out there without understanding what they are doing. Usually, when it is used for medicinal purposes (esp. in a ceremony) there is someone there (or everyone there) who knows exactly what is trying to be achieved by opening these pathways up and how to go about it. Safely. So the exp. is channeled into a productive use. Some of these people train for many years to understand this kind of stuff (Not me :) and they 'control' the exp. and are there to protect and help. It can be very useful but powerful. Supposedly, under the wrong circumstances, it can be quite a bad thing.
I have read that taking LSD and other hallucinogenics can quickly open up shakras in one's body and place one in different states of mind. Supposedly, this can have strange results if one is unlucky (I'll leave it to the imagination). These same shakras and other states of mind are often the same ones that Yogi's and other types train all of their lives to be able to open/attain. They always have something very specific in mind and they know how to take care of themselves in this very different state.
So, I personally think that there could be some very positive medicinal effects from hallucinogenics when used properly but I don't know how one regulates/achieves them.
And to re-iterate someone else's point, the doseages being discussed for this are miniscule compared to what I have been talking about.
(So what the hell have I been talking about then anyway?!?) You all didn't know I was a great world renowned Chemist/Doctor/Anthropologist did you? :) These fingers are just on fire! LOL! Sorry all.
Actually, it helps me a lot to deal with my own CH situation to carry on like this. So, please, try not to let it bother you everyone. Let me know if it does and I'll ease up, Ok? You can all wake up now. I'm done here. (Maybe it knocked some of you out and gave you a brief respite :) No, I really actually DON'T think I know everything...
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