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Topic: Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input (Read 1514 times) |
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jonny
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #25 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 6:16pm » |
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on Jan 16th, 2003, 6:00pm, KingOfPain wrote:
I know I invite being flamed for this practice & my comments, but I can't & won't depend on "the law" for my survival! So flame on.
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Flame shields up, KOP......I got your back!!!!
Anyone walks in my house uninvited deserves to die and will.
.......................jonny
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Jarvis
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #26 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 9:30pm » |
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I agree with Slammy, woefully agree with Roxy and gleefully agree with jonny and the elder mother deal. With jonnys scenario there is no reasonable doubt and the guys should be killed before they ever reach the street.... However our system of justice will put the store owner on trial if he shot the killers and there would be no reasonable doubt as to wether killing the killers was necessary.. After all the police were now on hand and all they witnessed was the store owner gunning down the killers from behind as they ran out the door. To top it off the store never had fresh donuts when the cops came in before.. If he cant afford quality representation he may just end up in prison for willfully gunning down another.......
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Mark C
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #27 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 10:10pm » |
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"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond the Horizon, 1942
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paul_b
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #28 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 11:48pm » |
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Taking a life is wrong. Defending your country is necessary. Life in prison w/o parole is a living hell. Give them hell.
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JohnM
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #29 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 12:49am » |
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To complicate the issue a bit;
We have had some road rage killings here in the last few years with baseball bats and hockey sticks being used to beat the victims to death or turning them into vegetables. The culprits have been treated leniently being allowed bail and 5 year sentences because they had "problems with anger" in their upbringings. So what - kill the fuckers!
In another recent incident a guy was being harrased by drunk vagrants illegally camping and creating disturbance late at night outside his house. He went outside to chase them off with his gun in hand. One guy came at him with a knife and he let off a couple of rounds in warning shots. The guy kept coming so he shot him dead. The guy was grief stricken and shocked by what he had done, but 2 years later was set free. Quite right too. The local do-gooders who run vagrant shelters and such like are outraged that he has been set free. They say the system is selling vagrant life short. Maybe if guns were banned the vagrant would be alive, but maybe the house owner would be dead from the knife.
John
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Charlie
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #30 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 2:31am » |
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Gary Wills the author says that in all the Jesus stories, the one time he came across an execution, he said you are not to do this and ended it.
I have no interest in a bible debate as I know nothing about it and will not participate. I think Wills comes at this from a Catholic angle. I wonder if this is true?
Charlie
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There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
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Roxy
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #31 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 11:47am » |
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I'm like you Charlie....don't know enough to argue the point. But Jesus was executed in a pretty cruel and inhumane way, so all the Jesus stories can't be about no executions, but yes, it was the bad guys doing the executions. The old testament is pretty much, an eye for an eye. The new testament is turn the other cheek (though my definition is terribly simplified).
But, I do know that my husband is Catholic, and he would be the first to shoot someone's ass if they were coming after his family. Our state says it's legal to shoot someone breaking into your home.......as long as he doesn't fall back out the window or door after you shoot him. He has to be actually inside the home. So you have to crouch in the dark, and wait till they come all the way in !!!!!
Of course it's also illegal to spit on the sidewalk (this, is the #1 snuff state....go figure)
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Hunny
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #32 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 1:36pm » |
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Life in prison becomes normal. It isn't hell. Days become routine and, in many cases, inmates who are let out want back in. Let's not get started on recidivism rates though. But if it were a hell on earth I promise you - people wouldn't be going back again and again.
Gov. Ryan was elected on a platform of law and order, he supported the death penalty and promised the state a certain level of safety and security. He's a liar.
Three years ago, when his studies on this started, he promised that no one would be let go. He swore to the families that the accused would be examined on a case by case basis and ONLY those who could be proven innocent would be released or given a lesser sentence. He kept voicing this promise right up until he commuted the sentences to life.
He lied, cheated and treated the families of the victims as if they were less important than the gutless scum who killed their families. All of the victims were symbolically killed again and all of the families had to re-live it.
The families have gone through YEARS of tragedy and grief, re-living the horrible moment they found out about their loved ones death and they have sat in trials and learned facts and seen pictures that no human should ever have to see - much less of a child, mother, husband etc. I know, I've been on a murder jury and it stays with me still
One victim who was 8 month pregnant was stabbed repeatedly and had her baby removed from her womb, her daughter was stabbed in the neck so hard it severed her spinal column, her 7 year old son was chased down outside and butchered. Some one PLEASE tell me why they feel these men deserve 3 meals a day, all the drugs they can consume (please, you don't think drugs are in jail???) a bed of their own, warmth in the winter, cool in the summer, and unrestricted tv, games, therapy and sex. Some didn't have it that good on the outside!!
If you come in my house, if you hurt my child, my grandchild, my husband I promise you that you WANT to be caught. You WANT the police to get to you before I do and can do to you MUCH worse than you have done to mine. I will not go through what those families have and watch as worthless scum are given a better deal than they gave their victims.
Other than that...Hi everyone!! I'm the new kid on the block!!1 
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RevDeFord
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #33 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 3:51pm » |
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I will take it a step farther.....
You kill somone by torturing them and cutting off their head and sucking out their brains, then you ought to have the same thing done to you.
You rape someone before slitting their throat - we ought to have a machine that'll do that for you too.
If I have a dog come into my yard and attack my dog, I will shoot that dog, no questions asked. As far as I am concerned, a murderer is no better than a rabid dog that ought to be permanently removed from society.
I have seen murder, I was threatened by the family tryingn to not get me to testify. I went to bed the week before the trial with my full arsenal loaded and cocked and ready.
Criminals are the only people in this society that have the rights. Victims don't have any. My brother -in -law is a corrections officers and talks frequently of the repeat offenders that he sees just days or weeks after release.
And New Mexico or some God forsaken state gives it's death row inmates a choice as to how they would like to have their sentence carried out. Hanging, injection, firing squad, electric chair. This dude chose firing squad a few years ago, and they got 6 sharpshooters, and gave one bullet and the others blanks so they don't know who actually fired the killing blow.
Give me a break. Let me fire the gun. I won't ask for a salary, they won't have to put in any blanks, I will gladly dispatch the murderer.
Can sins be forgiven? You betcha, but they still got to pay society's payment.
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I don' know why it hurts, but I pray it will stop.
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RevDeFord
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #34 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 3:55pm » |
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Charlie,
The one person that the writer is talking about was a woman caught in the act of adultery. They had taken up stones to stone her, when Jesus simply stated, "Let him who is without sin throw the first stone." With that, they left. It was an insighted vengeful mob, who were taking matters into their own hands without a Jewish or even Roman Trial. For them to have stoned her would have been breaking Jewish law as there had to be a trial before a stoning could commence.
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I don' know why it hurts, but I pray it will stop.
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brain_cramps
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #35 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 4:10pm » |
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on Jan 17th, 2003, 3:51pm, RevDeFord wrote:I went to bed the week before the trial with my full arsenal loaded and cocked and ready.
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A little off the topic but...
Up here in Canada, we have a 'quasi-communist frenchman a$$hole' that's trying to enact a gun law. Every gun owner must register their guns (before Jan1/03). So far, only a small percentage have. Obviously, a sizeable percentage won't.
What was only supposed to cost a couple of million dollars has now costed in excess of a BILLION dollars.
So now, the police have the right to 'storm into' the house of a registered gun-owner, to check if everything is up to regulation. Meanwhile, if you never registered them in the first place (like all criminals won't), the gov't won't even know you have one in the first place, and therefore have no reason to come and 'check'.
Absolutely f*cking retarded if you ask me!
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lonenightowl
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #36 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 4:26pm » |
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My 2 cents,would be 2cents worth of lead!
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Charlie
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #37 on: Jan 17th, 2003, 6:45pm » |
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Just to clear up a thing or two:
Don't count on me being Mr. Niceguy should you break in here and commit some heinous crime. Like many, I tell myself I'd so postal on them. Hopefully, I'll never know. The store clerk, victim, etc. immediately defending himself, to me, is a different can of worms. State killings are rightly very hard.
Thanks Rev. It didn't occur to be that this was the "cast the first stone" story. Not much does occur to me as I get older.
Charlie
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Cerberus
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #38 on: Jan 20th, 2003, 7:05pm » |
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Ok KOP, you hadda go here huh?
I'm with Jonny on this one and I live in Illinois. The percentage of inmates on death row in illinois who were innocent of the crime were a very small percentage of the total, and most were incarcerated before the introduction of DNA evidence to the judicial system. Second The FORMER Gov. was ,as Woobie stated, Corrupt in every direction applicable. Third it is absolutely insane that so many death-row inmates are now serving life sentances. The argument being that it costs just as much to execute an inmate as it does to incarcerate them for a lifetime, BULLSHIT, yes the appeals process takes an eternity but it is also the insurance that filters out the truly guilty from the innocent. There are only so many appeals you can file, and eventually it ends and the accused's life ends thus ending the cost of keeping them alive.
Life- Imprisonment is exactly that, and the cost continues till that individual's death. So you tell me, keep em alive and pay for their upkeep for 20 years on death row , or keep em alive and pay their upkeep for 80 years in max security. I believe the former is more cost effective. Bottom line, why should my tax dollars go to keep scum alive when we can simply dispense with them and save room for more. I don't want my money going to pay to hospitalize or educate someone who didn't have enough respect for the life of another....period.
The Punishment should also fit the crime, I have to agree with REV Ford on this as well. Part of the reason that capital punishment isn't a good deterrant to murder is because it isn't scary enough. "leathal injection" is Painless, would you be scared of that? of course not. If the punishment were the scariest consequence possible it would be a good deterrent. So Please define cruel and unusual. Apparently murder wasn't too cruel and unusual a fate for the victim.
On gun control......there is no such thing as gun control. Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns. It is also a proven fact that anti-gun legislation is as equally ineffective as the death penalty as a deterrant to crime. The fact is Felons will get guns anyway. It is a cryin shame to try to claim that the basis of crime is due to the invention of the gun, another load of horse hockey. Heaven forbid folks be held accountable for their actions, that would be un-american.
Finally.........I favor the death penalty, but only in repeat and extreme cases, and the evidence should have to be overwhelming in each case, With reform of the penal system in order as well.
I'm done now,
Cerebus
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JohnM
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #39 on: Jan 21st, 2003, 12:46am » |
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As for the method of execution: the vision of dangling on the end of a rope scared the shit out of me when I was a kid growing up in England when the death penalty was still around. It served as the ultimate detterent to my young mind and still does. Just like the visions of the atom bomb mushroom cloud. The electric chair and the gas chamber also invoke spine chilling thoughts. Lethal injection and other "humane" methods don't feel the same.
As for "life sentence"; In many countries "life" just means about 15-25 years and then parole if you behave in prison and show some remorse and "reform". Thats just too good for these murdering fuckers.
John
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Elaine
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #40 on: Jan 21st, 2003, 12:29pm » |
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I have been doing some research on this also. I do believe that the government needs to be reformed. I believe it should be everywhere not just Illinois. I don’t think anyone person should have the right to change things. I watched Montel Williams today, after listening to many people talk from the Mayor to one of the innocent men who was on Death Row. I have mixed feeling on this as I am sure the Mayor did also.
There has been 13 men/women on death row that was proven innocent in Illinois. That is a good many in my book. I would say that the Mayor ( no matter if he is corrupted or not) made a decision that was fair . I don’t know that I could of left office wondering if many more were awaiting death sentence that was innocent.
If I was a family member of someone who had been murdered, I would be more concerned if they had the right man after seeing 13 found innocent. I WOULD want the guilty man on Death row but not a innocent one.
If I was the family of someone who was convicted wrongly I would do what ever I could to see he got a fair hearing.
This is one of those things is there a way to judge people and BE SURE??
This morning on Good Morning America I watched a video that really upset me. A family dog being shot by a policeman. To start with watching someone shot a dog is as bad to me as watching a child being shot.
The policeman was asked repeatly to close the car door so the dog would not get out. The dog ran toward the woods waging his tail the policeman shined his flash light on the dog the dog yapping not growing or barking as to be attacking came running back wagging his tail, the police man shot the dog twice, as the family who were wrongly being held and handcuffed watched. The police man was not reprimanded, the only thing the family got was they were sorry. The policeman said he was fearing for his life he said all he knew it was a pit coming at him. That maybe but still from what I saw on the tape the dog never looked like he was going to attack. He was just a pup.
To many things going on that’s not right. Whats the right THING to do??? Who knows? Again no one person should be able to make a choise like that!
Now a question ? How would you feel if you were wrongly accused and waiting on death row?
How many children have lied and caused an adult to be jailed just because they did not like the person? The government has given power to our children to have us locked up for trying to make them mind.
My oldest daughter wanted some attention from her friends, she told one of her friends I had beat her. The friend told her mother her mother had her tell family and children services. They went to the school checked her for marks found none. They came to my house, rude and accusing. I will believe to this day that they would have come after me except for the fact I was in the hospital at the time I was to of beat her.
Children find it hard to admit they lied. How many parents school teachers ect…have been jailed but did no wrong????
I could go on and on but won’t I believe people should be punished but it has to be Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt!!!
here is a link aso that shows innocent people who have been convited.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/case/display_cases.php?sort=last_name
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