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Topic: Time Travel (Read 1684 times) |
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thebbz
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #25 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 3:52pm » |
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Here we are in time considering time. You intellectual types explain this. One year =1 revolution around the sun @ x mps. As the earth approaches closer to the sun on the elliptical orbit it begins to increase in speed. To the tune of approx 2500 mps faster. So does that mean time is slower in the winter? That sort of thing aint my bag baby.  E=MC2.
jb
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Opus
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #26 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 6:27pm » |
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Time exists because we measure it. Really we cannot measure time actually because our current method of counting decaying atoms is is inaccurate. If we measure time by the distance that light travels in a vacuum that would perfect, that is if the Zero point theory is wrong and there is such a thing as a true vacuum.
Basically I am saying that time is not measurable, we only can guess at it, so there must be a constant force that we do not know about that we perceive as time but we are only seeing its shadow. For all we know the laws of physics may not exist outside our little realm.
I'm pretty sure that once we understand what gravity and inertia actually are then we will be closer to understanding how it all works together.
Opus/Paul
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Jasmyn
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #27 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 6:44pm » |
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We still see the light of stars but it is an illusion as they died millions of years ago.
So in actual fact we still see the stars' past in our own present. Where are we at present? To someone else a past illusion?
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Jazz 
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LeLimey
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #28 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 6:50pm » |
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Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares? We have booze and chocolate in the here and now and THAT my friends is all I need to know!
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Grandma_Sweet_Boy
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #29 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 6:54pm » |
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Quote:Posted by: LeLimey Posted on: Today at 6:50pm
Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares? We have booze and chocolate in the here and now and THAT my friends is all I need to know!
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Amen! The rest of you are making my eyes go in circles and my head hurt whilst I try to figure out what the hell you're saying.
I'm way too old to be this confused.
Carol
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Kevin_M
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #31 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 7:14pm » |
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on Jan 1st, 2006, 3:52pm, thebbz wrote:| So does that mean time is slower in the winter? |
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Insignificantly. It may be a total of eight minutes over the course of three months starting from January 2nd.
Quote:| That sort of thing aint my bag baby. |
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mine either, I'm not into the math.
Posted by: LeLimey Posted on: Today at 7:50pm
Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares?
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| « Last Edit: Jan 1st, 2006, 7:27pm by Kevin_M » |
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Linda_Howell
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #32 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 8:22pm » |
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Hey Kevin and Opus? Go here Quote:
You've lost the rest of us. 
Linda
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BikerBob
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #33 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 9:41pm » |
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The past is history
The future is a mystery
The present is a gift
Set the controls for the heart of the sun
Time is measured by clocks
Your biological clock is your hypothalamus
HEAL thy hypothalamus !!
BB
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Mr. Happy
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Less Time Travel
« Reply #34 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 11:32pm » |
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Oh....bugger. I cut a slice last night, and again this Am....duress not included.
Good for another year.
Y'all are discussing time referendums, while the Big Boy's snuck in another "second" on the Atomic Clock. I'm not sure what that means in the long run, but if y'all spent more time Belly Bumping instead of considering the ramifications of time/strings/steamish, everything would go a lot easier.
HA's not included.
RJ
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Opus
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Re: Less Time Travel
« Reply #35 on: Jan 1st, 2006, 11:46pm » |
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on Jan 1st, 2006, 11:32pm, Mr. Happy wrote:| but if y'all spent more time Belly Bumping instead of considering the ramifications of time/strings/steamish, everything would go a lot easier. |
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I have to assume you mean sex, which would mean I would need a sexual partner. Being married limits my options in that area. Also the term Belly bumping you mean sexual intercourse in the missionary position. I have tried that once so on to the 2 million other positions, that is when I find a sexual partner LOL.
Opus/Paul
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ben_uk
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #36 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 5:07am » |
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THE EQUATION OF TIME
Not early to rise
From issue 2508 of New Scientist magazine, 16 July 2005, page 89
Ian Vickers, Mosman, New South Wales, Australia
Being very keen to see the return of the sun after the English midwinter, I began checking local sunrise and sunset times to see how the interval between them increases each day. The sunset time increases by more than a minute per day, but the sunrise time is getting earlier by considerably less than a minute each day. Why is there asymmetry? I suspect it has something to do with latitude, but what?
Your correspondent has discovered a quirk of astronomy usually termed the "equation of time". I was wondering recently whether day length really changes faster at some times of year and slower at others. I plugged a table of sunrise and sunset into Excel and the graph shows that the day length stays briefly but depressingly static in midwinter, then changes rapidly through spring into another short period of near stasis in summer.
But then I noticed the oddly different behaviour of sunrise and sunset times: the two curves are not symmetrical. So I found the midpoint of the two, which gives the apparent (or true) solar time of noon. When you plot the difference between this time and the mean (or clock) time of noon across the year, you discover the complex curve seen in the second graph, which is a visual representation of the equation of time. Sunrise and sunset are symmetrical about this line.
Steve Head, Cholsey, Wallingford, Oxon, UK
The asymmetry in the rates of change of sunrise and sunset arises from the nature of Earth's orbit around the sun, and is caused by variations in the length of the solar day, the time between solar noons on successive days, throughout the year. Sunrise and sunset are essentially symmetrical about solar noon, but solar noon is not always at clock noon. The sources of this variation are, firstly, the Earth's elliptical orbit around the sun, and secondly, the 23.5-degree inclination of the Earth's rotational axis to the axis of its orbit around the sun.
From solar noon one day to solar noon the next, the Earth not only has to turn through 360 degrees, but through about 1 more degree to compensate for the movement along its orbital path during that time. While the Earth reliably turns through 360 degrees once every 23 hours 56 minutes, regardless of the time of year, it is the variation in how much further the Earth has to turn to complete the solar day that gives rise to the varying solar day lengths.
The Earth speeds up as it approaches the perihelion of its elliptical orbit, the point of closest approach to the sun, and slows down as it approaches the aphelion. The increased speed at the perihelion, together with the shorter distance to the sun, means the angle swept out by the Earth about the sun every day is greater near the perihelion than near the aphelion. So more rotation is needed to complete a solar day near the perihelion, causing the solar day to lengthen. This factor generates a sine wave-like variation in the length of the solar day with a period of one year.
The second source of variation is more difficult to visualise. At the summer and winter solstices, the plane joining the Earth's rotational axis to the centre of the sun is perpendicular to the plane of Earth's orbit, and a point on the equator has the least distance to travel between one noon and the next, so the solar day length is at it shortest. By contrast, at the equinoxes the Earth's axis is tilted towards or away from the orbital plane. Now, a point on the equator must travel further between consecutive noons, and a solar day is longer than at the solstice by about 22 seconds. This mechanism operates at other latitudes, which causes a variation in the solar day length with two peaks and two troughs a year.
These two sources of variation together create an intricate pattern of solar day length. While the changes from day to day are small, they are cumulative and can lead to marked differences between solar time and clock time during a year. They are the bane of sundial makers and are expressed in the equation of time, which shows a pattern resembling a sine wave of six months' period superimposed on a sine wave of one year's period. The time difference ranges from about 14 minutes negative to more than 16 minutes positive, with the steepest slope, of more than 20 seconds a day, occurring in December. It is the shifting solar noon added to what would otherwise be a symmetrical movement of sunrise and sunset that produces the asymmetry.
Ian Vickers, Mosman, New South Wales, Australia
There are several websites where you can find out more about this. Try: -
www.analemma.com
http://www.cso.caltech.edu/outreach/log/NIGHT%20and%20DAY.pdf
edit;-
Try: www.analemma.com
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| « Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2006, 5:08am by ben_uk » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #37 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 5:36am » |
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 5:07am, ben_uk wrote:| are expressed in the equation of time, which shows a pattern resembling a sine wave of six months' period superimposed on a sine wave of one year's period. |
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The following table is for the first 10 days after perihelion. The "Day" column is the number of days after January 2nd.
While this doesn’t seem like much, don't forget that the time difference is accumulative. As the following graph shows, over the course of 3 months the error adds up to almost 8 minutes. approximate winter's time
Example: How much does the sun's position differ from what our watch reads on January 10th?
Being I don't understand the math, I'm out of here.
on Jan 1st, 2006, 6:50pm, LeLimey wrote:| Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares? |
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Quote:GENERAL POSTS
This is where you will post your normal everyday messages... |
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 This is NOT normal.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:57am by Kevin_M » |
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Jasmyn
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #38 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:31am » |
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http://www.spaceandmotion.com/cosmos-second-law-thermodynamics-time.htm
Past Present and Future and the One Way Direction of Time
Eric Lerner perfectly explains this important problem of why Time must be directional, contrary to the laws of modern particle physics;
This is one of the deepest paradoxes of conventional physics today. According to all the laws of physics there should be no distinction between past and future, no direction to time. Since the second law says that entropy necessarily increases with time, and thus the past and future differ, the second law, too, is contradicted.
In relativity theory, for example, time is simply the fourth dimension - there is no more difference between past and future than between left and right. There is no flow of time: all the equations would look the same if time were reversed. Nor is this true of relativity alone. Newton's laws and the laws of quantum mechanics also are what physicists call 'time reversible'; they define no unique direction for time. If one were to make a movie of two billiard balls colliding, for example, it would look just as credible if it were run in reverse.
But in the real world, there is a difference. If it is two raw eggs that collide and break in the movie, it would look absurd in reverse. The two eggs would assemble themselves out of a puddle and roll off. In the real world babies are born, never unborn, they grow up, never down, and eggs are scrambled, never unscrambled. These processes are all irreversible: time moves forward, toward growth or decay.
Hence the fundamental question: If 'the laws of the universe' have no direction in time, why does the real world? Why do laws like the second law, which have a direction for time, work?
The conventional answer to this question is, strangely, the Big Bang. The Big Bang started the universe off in a highly orderly and regular state- a 'perfect' state of very low entropy. Since the universe must run down through states of increasing disorder, closer to equilibrium (the state in which there is no flow of energy), the direction of time is defined. Time is just the direction 'away' from the Big Bang. If there was no Big Bang, there would supposedly be no difference between past and future. The universe would be at equilibrium, and no event would diminish past from future. But the unique event of the Big Bang, so symmetric in space, creates an asymmetry in time.
Thus, if there was no Big Bang - as seems to be the case - we have further questions: Why does time move forward? Is there a difference between past and future, or is it, as Einstein believed, merely a persistent illusion?
The importance of the answers extends far beyond their role at the center of a consistent cosmology. They strike at the heart of some of the greatest mysteries faced by science, philosophy and religion - the questions of the nature of human consciousness, the relation of mind and body, and free will. The distinction between past, present, and future is basic to our experience of consciousness - we are conscious in the now, we remember the past, but we cannot know the future. It also is central to our idea of free will, for it implies that our actions in the present affect the future, that the past is fixed but the future can be changed. How can these ideas be reconciled with a concept of physical laws in which past, present and future all exist equally and cannot be distinguished?
The problem of 'reversible time,' then, arises because scientists improperly abstract reality and believe their highly accurate equations to be absolutely, infinitely precise. It is reversible time that is subjective, an illusion, not irreversible time. The real world is continually coming into existence, created by an infinitely complex web of instabilities and interactions. As Prigogine puts it, 'Time is creation. The future is just not there.'
Time's irreversibility is based on the continuity of space, on its infinite divisibility. (Lerner, 1991)
Once we realize that it is not Time but wave Motion which is fundamental, then it becomes obvious why Time is directional. If we apply this understanding of Time to Matter as Spherical Standing Waves in Space, this then leads to the following explanation of Past, Present, and Future. As it takes Time for the In-Wave to flow into its Wave-Center, thus the In-Waves are the Future, and in time will meet at their Wave-Center (the Present) and after flowing through the Wave-Center become Out-Waves (the past). This is important for it explains why Time is directional because the Wave Motion of Space is Directional, i.e. In and Out Waves travel in Opposite Directions relative to the Wave-Center (Present).
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Jazz
Madness is proclaimed by society’s inability to accept its own infallibility
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Kevin_M
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #39 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:51am » |
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:31am, Jasmyn wrote:Past Present and Future and the One Way Direction of Time
Eric Lerner |
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Thanks Jaz
Sooo, I take it, there IS such a thing as time.
which was my point, a looong TIME ago.
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vig
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #40 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 8:20am » |
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what did y'all put in your tea?
I want some.
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LeLimey
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #41 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 8:25am » |
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 8:20am, vig wrote:| what did y'all put in your tea? |
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Milk, sugar and a jammy ring to dunk... HEAVEN!
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Jasmyn
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #42 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 12:12pm » |
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This all started in the past, with the wonder of an eminent future birth.
The singularity of a time filled with brain waves and lyrics spread out over time lines and pages on the virtual plane of present technology.
Some just had time to cope with what was, is and will be the cuisine and party trick for this season, some reminded us to remember the past to be able to enjoy the present and be prepared for the future. Some just waited for time to pass to enter with new hope into 2006.
The physical laws of Nature were inspected from past or present and possible prospective analogies on which we base our current knowledge. We compared Einstein’s past assertions with theories that may have strings in our future that may represent or give us illusions of a more dimensional objective.
Evolution, Mathematics and Quantum Physics came and went as ideas with lightning speed through the vacuum of our own curved universe.
Talk like this gave rise to some more primitive emotions, which survived through the ages into the present. During this passage of time we noted that times change but that the Hypothalamus still ticks to its own clock.
There were very happy people and there were other people, obviously , that considered their various positions under the sun, although we determined that the Earth speeds up and slows down due to its elliptical orbit and not our own, Uuuhhhmm maybe  , horizontal positions.
Errors were noted and patterns were established of waves of time gained as well as lost. A circle was completed, from beginning to end.
"Where is the beginning and where is the end?" you might ask while bystanders were dunking donuts in their sweet tea.
This was, is and will be The Circle of Life my friend.
Hakuna Matata
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Jazz
Madness is proclaimed by society’s inability to accept its own infallibility
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Melissa
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 12:12pm, Jasmyn wrote:| Talk like this gave rise to some more primitive emotions, which survived through the ages into the present. |
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I have spent many minutes, hours and days contemplating the past and how I, and we, as humans, fit into the equation. What is to be learned from the past, how it fits into the future, and tried to find answers that I thought I knew subconsciously, but would never solve while awake. Tis the revelation I quoted myself as saying earlier. I had it while letting my dog out to take a shit. Seriously! It all came to me, this endless need to fill up a hole in my soul, was finally filled. I realized while gazing skyward at the sun highlighted clouds, that my purpose was not to search until I knew the answers to my questions, but to just "be". I was doing exactly as I was supposed to be doing, as I am, with everything I am given and have taken. I wish everyone could feel what I felt at that moment... in time. 
Quote:| There were very happy people and there were other people, obviously , that considered their various positions under the sun, although we determined that the Earth speeds up and slows down due to its elliptical orbit and not our own, Uuuhhhmm maybe , horizontal positions. |
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And there are some who believed adaptation was the center of it all. Yet some would call them unintellectual and naive. Instead of leaving mathematical equations and contemplation, they realized they weren't going to be around forever, so they breathed life everyday. It's another abstract that isn't studied enough... IMHO.
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cie la vis 
Now that I am sure I have completely skewed this thread with my interpretation, I bid you adieu. 
P.S. I am no longer feeling a need to see and do everything, but to let some mysteries, remain mysterious.
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Jasmyn
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #44 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 1:06pm » |
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Quote:| Talk like this gave rise to some more primitive emotions, which survived through the ages into the present. |
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A reference to what Patti said:
Quote:| Oooo--more, you guys, more. Talk nerdy to me. |
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And Freud confirmed
Quote:There were very happy people and there were other people, obviously , that considered their various positions under the sun, although we determined that the Earth speeds up and slows down due to its elliptical orbit and not our own, Uuuhhhmm maybe , horizontal positions.
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A reference to the dialogue between Mr Happy and the Penguin man, Opus and follow-up by Ben UK.
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Jazz
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Charlie
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #45 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 1:37pm » |
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Yer hurtin' what's left of my brain.
Charlie 
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ExplodingEyeBall
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #46 on: Jan 3rd, 2006, 11:05am » |
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I'd try to understand this stuff better but I don't have the time.
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Just poke out my eye and get it over with!!!
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imnotbub
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #47 on: Jan 4th, 2006, 11:28am » |
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and the last person claiming to have discovered something that traveled faster than light died for it
I don't get it
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Life may not be good, but I think it beats the alternative, and if it doesn't, we'll find out soon enough
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Wendy
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Some people have WAY to much time on their hands
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floridian
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on Dec 31st, 2005, 2:30am, Jasmyn wrote:
Then why is it night where you are and day where I am?
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For the same reason that when it rains on me here, it may not be raining on you there, and when it is cold here, others are warm. Most ideas about time are based on sun position (which is a local phenomena) - time is not really based on sun position.
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