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Margi
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #125 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:41am »
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Why is everyone "hung up" on Treasurer's reports??   Shocked  um....HULLO??  Because it's our right to know, Dan!  There are a lot of people here who have donated money to your OUCH and it is YOUR responsibility as its leader to tell those people where their money is being spent.  Yes, I said "your" OUCH.  That point was driven home to me in an email from one of your Directors the other day.  That it's not MY OUCH anymore.  How tragic is it that it can't be OUR OUCH?  
 
Your words:
OUCH will never be 'open' as in the past. Leadership does not need to spend endless hours [as we are right now] 'discussing' how things should be done.    
This absolutely nauseates me.  OUCH was formed to be an open organization - to be an advocate for cluster headache sufferers and supporters, driven by input FROM cluster headache sufferers and supporters.  Guess that's gone by the boards now, huh?   Roll Eyes
 
More of your words:
You want to change it, get elected and serve.
 
Yeah?  When was the last election, Dan?  How many of this current administration have been elected?  Linda and Mast, right? (In my opinion (and yes, I am entitled to one), they are the only two of your board that are showing any class through any of this.) That fact alone could get you shut down by the Feds, the fact that an election was not held and vacancies were filled arbitrarily.    Not suprising, really - they were both in on the original purpose of this organization, now something that has been sadly forgotten.  
 
One last thing.  DrkAngel, I am blown away by your post.  VERY well said, Kenn.  THANK you!
 
oh and p.s.  thanks so much for your reply to my email the other day, Dan.  Oh wait, you didn't respond, did you?  Not to worry, I got the message anyway.
« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:46am by Margi » IP Logged

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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #126 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:47am »
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Thank you for your opinions Margi.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #127 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:50am »
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.....and your answers to the questions posed would be ....where?
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #128 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 10:02am »
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on Apr 7th, 2005, 9:41am, Margi wrote:
Why is everyone "hung up" on Treasurer's reports??   Shocked  um....HULLO??  Because it's our right to know, Dan!  There are a lot of people here who have donated money to your OUCH and it is YOUR responsibility as its leader to tell those people where their money is being spent.  Yes, I said "your" OUCH.  That point was driven home to me in an email from one of your Directors the other day.  That it's not MY OUCH anymore.  How tragic is it that it can't be OUR OUCH?  
 
It is 'our' OUCH...just not on 'your' terms.
 
Your words:
OUCH will never be 'open' as in the past. Leadership does not need to spend endless hours [as we are right now] 'discussing' how things should be done.    
This absolutely nauseates me.  OUCH was formed to be an open organization - to be an advocate for cluster headache sufferers and supporters, driven by input FROM cluster headache sufferers and supporters.  Guess that's gone by the boards now, huh?   Roll Eyes
 
The 'misssion and vision' have not changed. Only the way we get there has.
More of your words:
You want to change it, get elected and serve.
 
Yeah?  When was the last election, Dan?  How many of this current administration have been elected?  Linda and Mast, right? (In my opinion (and yes, I am entitled to one), they are the only two of your board that are showing any class through any of this.) That fact alone could get you shut down by the Feds, the fact that an election was not held and vacancies were filled arbitrarily. One should research and make sure the law and regulations correspond to their posted statements.  Not suprising, really - they were both in on the original purpose of this organization, now something that has been sadly forgotten.  
 
One last thing.  DrkAngel, I am blown away by your post.  VERY well said, Kenn.  THANK you!
 
oh and p.s.  thanks so much for your reply to my email the other day, Dan.  Oh wait, you didn't respond, did you?  Not to worry, I got the message anyway.
What did you wish me to do...chastise the person you were corresponding with? That would be difficult to do since I happen to agree.

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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #129 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 10:20am »
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"OUCH was formed and is operated by cluster headache sufferers strictly on a volunteer basis."
 
This is from the "What is OUCH" page.  Direct contravention if there are going to be paid positions with the organization.
 
From the bylaws:  
 
ARTICLE VIII - BOARD OF DIRECTORS
 
1.... The board receives no compensation other than reasonable expenses.  
 
so, I take it only the OFFICERS will be paid salaries, then? Who determines the rate of pay?
 
2. Elections:  
   a) Up to fifteen Board of Director members including officers shall be elected by the voting members of the Organization.
   b) The membership shall be responsible for nominating a slate of member representatives in good standing.  
   d) The election will be held during the month of November in accordance with election procedures established by the Board of Directors
hmmm, did I fall asleep during the month of November again?  Damn, I hate when that happens!
 
Treasurer:
d) Chair the Budget Committee and prepare and present an annual budget.
and the budget is posted.....where?
 
1. When a vacancy on the Board of Directors, with the exception of the President, exists, nominations may be received from present Board of Director members.  

see, Dan? I DID do my research.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #130 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 10:23am »
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Quote:
Thank you for your opinions Margi.

 
Arrogant.
 
Now I know why some of the BOD members respond as they do. Follow the emporer.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #131 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 10:37am »
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on Apr 7th, 2005, 10:23am, don wrote:

 
Arrogant.
 
Now I know why some of the BOD members respond as they do. Follow the emporer.

 
 
Arrogance, bashing, innuendo will, at times, beget the same in response
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #132 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 6:12pm »
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No  director of any non profit I have ever worked with would respond that way.
 
Nor would any BOD I have ever worked with .
 
You would be turning in your keys by the end of the day.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #133 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 6:57pm »
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Damn it!  This is no way for either of you to act.  You're both pissed, and this bickering isn't helping anything.  Perhaps you both should take it to private.  If not for yourselves... If not for others... Then at least for the org.  Bullshit like this will definitely strain the trust that seems to be becoming very important and neccesary lately.  Just agree to disagree for now.
 
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #134 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 7:17pm »
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Thanks Drk, you are correct.
 
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #135 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 7:46pm »
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Quote:
Perhaps you both should take it to private.  

 
Seems like thats why a lot of OUCH members are pissed to begin with.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #136 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:00pm »
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OUCH is a public non-profit.  Any questions asked by anyone need to be answered.  You aren't going to tell the government we won't answer your questions unless you become a member.  Those 100 letters that Donna sent out for sponsors - are you going to make them join before you answer any questions they have?  
 
If you want OUCH business only on the OUCH board, then do not discuss on ch.com.  The convention is OUCH business - it's the legally required annual general meeting of the members.  You can't have it both ways.  Either all business on the OUCH board, or you answer questions on both boards.
 
A representative of OUCH should conduct themselves as a professional representative in every aspect, not just when they are on the OUCH board.
 
If someone contributes financially to any non profit, they have the right to ask where and what that money is being spent on, member or not.
 
There's alot more I could say, but after reading all this it's apparent that the work I did with OUCH was considered a waste and was problematic.  
 
Perhaps I should take the advice offered and request my membership be revoked.
 
Sad state of affairs.
 
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #137 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:05pm »
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Well Cat as the emporer has stated:
 
Quote:
It is 'our' OUCH...just not on 'your' terms.  

 
Your work was not considered as wasted it has just been wasted.
« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:06pm by don » IP Logged
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #138 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 9:13pm »
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amazes me how so many cool people with the same cause and interests become so divided........my interest level is droppin Pam
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #139 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 10:24pm »
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Not being a OUCH member I can and will say this with a clear head.  
1- You cant get from A to Z with out taking on the letters in the middle along the way! NOTHING happens over night.  
2- Every business has dealings going on behind closed doors. Its fact. Face it! No one will know EVERYTHING all the time! Period.
3- There will ALWAYS be those that feel they are right about issues and those they feel are wrong. Fact. Face that too. (you cant please everyone all the time NashCon proved that to me for damn sure!)
4- Folks have left OUCH due to the fact they feel things arent being done the way they should!  That will not change either. Sorry to break it to yall but its true and we all know it!!  
5- Folks have been UNJUSTLY accused of stealing money from OUCH in the past, how do I know cuz I was one of them! It was never put on the public board where I could tell my side. I just happen to have someone who cared nuff to let me know so I could cover my own ass!
6- No admin. will be 110% above it all. We are HUMAN, we all feel differently bout things and say them! No matter its right or wrong!  
7- MANY things have been put "on the back burner" over the years. Most cant even rem. what in the hell they are. Cuz folks want things "their way" or no way. Again, you please some of "masses" some of the time but not all of them all the time!  
8- Take a LONG HARD look at OUCH UK and see what they have done that has not been done by OUCH US. Find out what pit falls they had to deal with ect. Email some of the BoD members at the other OUCH sights and ask them how they got all of it off the ground and running like a well oiled machine!! Mo (Maureen) and John from OUCH UK were at the Alanta convention and gave an out line of things folks!!! HINT HINT
9- As for the books kinda hard to put info out there for all to see if you dont have ALL the info ya need to begin with!  Aint it?  
10- No matter what you say or do with OUCH someone is ALWAYS gonna get pissed off. Thats been proven over the years ladies and gents. It wont change!
 
Now, THIS IS JUST ME!!! I say scrape the whole damn thing and start over from ground 0. The whole damn place is crumbling like a house built on sand anyway. So what does anyone have to loose? NOTHING!!! The folks that are in office are TRYING to get things in order but with all the BS flying around anymore how can they! Did everyone just go and loose their minds? Did yall forget how be NICE to each other? Has everyone forgotten how the post ALL of the emails that they want to show off? Seems that way to me. Post the whole damn thing not just the "good" stuff. Have yall forgotten how to use that thing called a TELEPHONE? I didnt and I have the bill to prove it too!!  
 
Folks, rem. this OUCH US and CH.com are 2 DIFFERENT places. OUCH is the BUSINESS end of things & should be RUN AS A BUSINESS. CH. com is the lighter side of things!! TREAT IT THAT WAY. You may be surprised at what you find. Keep personal shit OFF the OUCH boards. Keep the personal crap to EMAIL. If you have a question send an email right to the person you want to ask!! But be nice bout it. It only takes 2 seconds to be nice even when you dont want to or you mad as hell.  
Grow the fuck up folks. Act like adults and not like my 2 yr. old!!!  
Let the flaming begin!!!!!
Leesa  Angry
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #140 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 11:18pm »
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Well said Leesa.  I couldn't agree more.  BarbaraG Roll Eyes
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #141 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 11:31pm »
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on Apr 7th, 2005, 10:24pm, Leesa wrote:

Now, THIS IS JUST ME!!! I say scrape the whole damn thing and start over from ground 0. The whole damn place is crumbling like a house built on sand anyway. So what does anyone have to loose? NOTHING!!!

 
 
Actually I've been discussing this same concept with someone over IM recently at large.  Instead of blaming the past as the cause of problems in the present, just take it for what it was and start over.  People in the past did some GREAT work...but now it's becoming such a mess that that work isn't really being utilized at present because the current representation feels they need to "fix the problems" -- notwithstanding the positive things that have been done.
 
So...if it comes down to policies and legal issues...change a word in the name....scrap the past....We'll all keep the spirit of the past alive by acknowledging how much very excellent work was done since the birth of OUCH.
 
Why spend all this time trying to fix the so-called past mistakes?  If this is what is occupying the majority of time...then forget about it.  It's obviously not worth the time.  So best to forget about the fact that some documents, details, etc from the past may NEVER be recovered...start from scratch and go from there.
 
That's JMHO...
 
Lizzie
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #142 on: Apr 7th, 2005, 11:33pm »
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Leesa, why are you screaming like that?
 
There simply has to be some kind of compromise that can be reached among all of us. I realize that the BoD is working, and that the membership can't always be privy to everything that is in the works, but it seems like everytime any question is asked, or a comment is made about OUCH, it is taken in the most negative light possible, or BoD members take it personally and get angry, when there's just no call for that kind of reaction. (Just like there's no need for screaming and lecturing.)
 
The BoD could stand to be a little more forthcoming with communication, a little less angry in their tone, and people on the BoD could quit taking every question and every comment so personally. They don't have to offer every detail of every little thing that they are working on, but it wouldn't hurt to occasionally say, "Howdy, OUCH members! Here's the general outline of the things we've been working on, and here's how we think it will benefit the membership." And after the announcement, lock the topic if it's not something open for discussion at that time, but maybe explain WHY it's not open for discussion. Basic compassion in communication goes a long way, and you're right: It only takes a minute or two.
 
The situation is coming to a head now, because there has been such a great LACK of communication, and the replies that have been offered have often been terse, vague, arrogant, belittling, bullying, and downright rude.
 
At this point, OUCH feels like a vault that the membership has been locked out of. We don't matter anymore, apparently. None of the groundwork that previous volunteers have worked so hard to put into place is worth anything, apparently. It all feels like a slap in the face. The reticence that has gone on for so long, speaks VOLUMES.  
 
Those of us who care enough to ask questions or be involved, are cast as troublemakers, rock-throwers, persecutors, etc. ad infinitum.
 
There are answers, solutions, compromises, and ways to discuss things, but thus far, the BoD seems to be setting the current tone of things.
 
The bottom line is that some of us still care. In return, we get told to shut-up or cancel our membership.  
 
From your lofty position, from which you feel justified in screaming at everyone, lecturing, and commanding everyone to "grow the fuck up," would you care to offer some productive suggestions, insight, or solutions?
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #143 on: Apr 8th, 2005, 12:26am »
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I don't know...from where I'm sitting...screaming or not, Leesa made a lot of sense there. Seems like sometimes, there's a whole lot of growing up to do around here.  Undecided
It sounds a lot like my kids in the backseat when I have to yell "Hey...do I need to stop this car and kick some ass!?!"
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #144 on: Apr 8th, 2005, 1:37am »
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on Apr 7th, 2005, 11:33pm, Frank_W wrote:
Leesa, why are you screaming like that?
 
There simply has to be some kind of compromise that can be reached among all of us. I realize that the BoD is working, and that the membership can't always be privy to everything that is in the works, but it seems like everytime any question is asked, or a comment is made about OUCH, it is taken in the most negative light possible, or BoD members take it personally and get angry, when there's just no call for that kind of reaction. (Just like there's no need for screaming and lecturing.)

 
Are you sure it's the BoD that is taking comments personally and in a negative light?
 
 
on Apr 7th, 2005, 11:33pm, Frank_W wrote:

The BoD could stand to be a little more forthcoming with communication, a little less angry in their tone, and people on the BoD could quit taking every question and every comment so personally. They don't have to offer every detail of every little thing that they are working on, but it wouldn't hurt to occasionally say, "Howdy, OUCH members! Here's the general outline of the things we've been working on, and here's how we think it will benefit the membership." And after the announcement, lock the topic if it's not something open for discussion at that time, but maybe explain WHY it's not open for discussion. Basic compassion in communication goes a long way, and you're right: It only takes a minute or two.

 
Again, who is taking things personally? And all businesses I know issue a quarterly, or yearly statement of updates. It's not feasible to issue monthly, weekly, or daily statements. As I'm sure you are well aware of, running your company, Frank.
 
on Apr 7th, 2005, 11:33pm, Frank_W wrote:
The situation is coming to a head now, because there has been such a great LACK of communication, and the replies that have been offered have often been terse, vague, arrogant, belittling, bullying, and downright rude.
 
At this point, OUCH feels like a vault that the membership has been locked out of. We don't matter anymore, apparently. None of the groundwork that previous volunteers have worked so hard to put into place is worth anything, apparently. It all feels like a slap in the face. The reticence that has gone on for so long, speaks VOLUMES.  
 
Those of us who care enough to ask questions or be involved, are cast as troublemakers, rock-throwers, persecutors, etc. ad infinitum.

 
I'm not sure which replies you mean, Frank. By who? I'm not sure how you can make these comments with any degree of accuracy, how would you know what the situation is, when you are not a BoD member, and do not attend the board meetings? It is conjecture on your part.  
 
It takes time to be able to see exactly where things stand, and the procedures that were not being followed since the inception of the organization, that need to be taken care of now, cannot be fixed with the wave of a pencil. You can't expect things to change overnight.
 
Do you really want to be involved Frank? Let's talk.

 
on Apr 7th, 2005, 11:33pm, Frank_W wrote:
There are answers, solutions, compromises, and ways to discuss things, but thus far, the BoD seems to be setting the current tone of things.
 
The bottom line is that some of us still care. In return, we get told to shut-up or cancel our membership.

 
Things are a changing, as far as the way OUCH has been run in the past.  Change isn't easy, but it is for the better. You can make it as hard or as easy as you like. Yes, there have been some heated words thrown about in this thread, and surely regretted by now. Is that a reason to blame it all on a few words said, and taken back? I don't think so. Please don't speak in generalities.
 
on Apr 7th, 2005, 11:33pm, Frank_W wrote:
From your lofty position, from which you feel justified in screaming at everyone, lecturing, and commanding everyone to "grow the fuck up," would you care to offer some productive suggestions, insight, or solutions?

 
I think she just did.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #145 on: Apr 8th, 2005, 1:43am »
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Quote:
Do you really want to be involved Frank? Let's talk.

 
frank offered his help numerous times in the past...as did i and several others.  
 
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #146 on: Apr 8th, 2005, 8:44am »
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on Apr 8th, 2005, 1:37am, purpleydog wrote:

 
Let's talk.

 
Um... How about, let's NOT. Does that work for you? I've talked myself blue in the face, done my best to see both sides of things and understand as many points of view as I can. I've offered my help repeatedly, tried to be a part of the solution, and now I'm weary. I'm done talking.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #147 on: Apr 8th, 2005, 10:32am »
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Are you sure it's the BoD that is taking comments personally and in a negative light?
 
 
Of course not, and everyone is at the same risk of hurt feelings.  Everyone here is human, well, except for Don, maybe.
 
 
Again, who is taking things personally? And all businesses I know issue a quarterly, or yearly statement of updates. It's not feasible to issue monthly, weekly, or daily statements. As I'm sure you are well aware of, running your company, Frank.
 
Who's asking for weekly or daily statements?  I realize you are brand new with OUCH, Purpleydog, but just so you know?  There hasn't been statements since May, 2004.  Even quarterly statements would be appreciated at this point.
 
 
It takes time to be able to see exactly where things stand, and the procedures that were not being followed since the inception of the organization, that need to be taken care of now, cannot be fixed with the wave of a pencil. You can't expect things to change overnight.
 
I'd really like to hear some specifics about this.  All I've heard is how we original OUCH officers screwed up all over the place.  So far, the only thing I've seen in print is that there isn't a Minute Book.  Not ALL of what we did was bad, Purpleydog.  Don't let yourself get brainwashed here.
 
Things are a changing, as far as the way OUCH has been run in the past.  Change isn't easy, but it is for the better. You can make it as hard or as easy as you like. Yes, there have been some heated words thrown about in this thread, and surely regretted by now. Is that a reason to blame it all on a few words said, and taken back? I don't think so. Please don't speak in generalities.
 
well, obviously, nothing gets answered until the words DO get heated.  Isn't THAT a sad state of affairs?  Questions asked at the OUCH board are repeatedly ignored or deemed inconsequential because of the poster's name/history/position of office in the "old" and decrepit OUCH.
 
Officially, I am done with this thread, but I had to make these points before I go.  The belitting of Frank's very valid response by yet another unelected official of OUCH was just too far over the line for me.
 
So, do we have to wait until November to have an actual election?  Or will this be another non-election year?
« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2005, 10:33am by Margi » IP Logged

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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #148 on: Apr 8th, 2005, 10:53am »
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Change isn't easy, but it is for the better.

 
Incremental is good to.
 
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except for Don, maybe.

 
HEY! I still gotta pulse you know. That counts.
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Re: Auction Items and Door Prizes
« Reply #149 on: Apr 8th, 2005, 10:57am »
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Or will this be another non-election year?

Hope not.  If ya work your way back through who is serving out who's term, most of the Officer and BoD positions are up for elections this year.  Heck, Dan is serving out Don's term.  Don to Steve to Dave to Mark to Dan.  Someone was serving out the last year of my BoD term last year.  Not sure how or if that got refilled this year.
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