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Topic: accupuncture (Read 1078 times) |
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BobG
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #25 on: Jan 12th, 2004, 6:46pm » |
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Hannah wants to believe when the acupuncturist says she "wants" to help and was "hurting" because she couldn't help. I say it's all bullshit and theatrics and should be left on the Hollywood B-movies. Show me some solid scientific proof that acupuncture works and I will change my mind.
Hannah…are you the one that asked for a list of what worked, for at least one person, to ease the CH pain? If you are I have a list I’ll post here. They are all from this site and were copy/pasted to the list.
Please click the list below for acupuncture info
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
Ueli’s post 4-30-01 on Acupuncture from QuackWatch
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Lizzie2
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #26 on: Jan 12th, 2004, 6:57pm » |
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I will say this...
I spoke with my new neurologist this past hospital stay about the acupuncture. He said he doesn't discourage it, however it hasn't been shown to do much for headaches. On another headache website, some people have really posted positively about their experiences about acupuncture...but also many have said it does not work for them.
I think there are important things to look out for here...like with many things...almost anyone can get certified and trained in acupuncture. Check the background of the person. It really is a form of medicine that goes back hundreds of years, and there is a proper way to do it...the first acupuncturist I went to was one of those definate quacks you speak of. I went to her twice before I realized she was a total airhead and full of $hit. She'd be like..umm...le'ts stick 6 needles uhhhh here!
But the MD acupuncturist I went to outside of Philadelphia who was trained in China was excellent. I did notice some changes, though I didn't get relief of headaches. I only went 4 times before my hospital stay and now I have to stop due to financial issues.
I think one should watch out for any practitioner who says they can "cure headaches." There is no cure as of yet for this neurological condition. Only management.
But mainly...if someone wants to try acupuncture, I think we should allow them to do it and hope that they gain some relief from it There have been the few who have! Thinking positively never hurts like Paul posted earlier here. You just never know... I don't think I would completely blow it off, but I would just be cautious and informed.
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toader
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #27 on: Jan 13th, 2004, 10:06pm » |
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As with anything in life, deciding to see an acupuncturist all depends upon your point of view and, of course, your insurance.
I go to acupuncture treatment to help me relax and make me better able to cope with the pain. We have pretty good insurance so only I pay $15 copay per visit.
I'm also fortunate enough to be able to be treated by a family friend which really helps with the emotional healing as well.
There are more "aggressive" acupuncture techniques and locations for interrupting an active CH attack which I have tried with mixed success. This is only my first time with CH so my pool of experience is very limited.
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HannahFroukje
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #28 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 6:57am » |
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on Jan 12th, 2004, 6:46pm, BobG wrote:Hannah…are you the one that asked for a list of what worked, for at least one person, to ease the CH pain? If you are I have a list I’ll post here. They are all from this site and were copy/pasted to the list.
Please click the list below for acupuncture info
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
Ueli’s post 4-30-01 on Acupuncture from QuackWatch
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Yes, I am. But I´m not looking for a list of "quacks" if that´s what you mean.
I am not looking for "wanting to believe" either. If something works it works, if it doesn´t work it doesn´t work, it´s that simple.
But frankly if something works for just a single person, although this same treatment might not work for others, that doesn´t make it impossible that it DID work for somebody else. This could be the case with acupuncture or with a million other things. It doesn´t always HAVE to be black or white.
If I had cluster, acupuncture wouldn´t be the first one I tried. If I would be in cycle, I would even stay far away from it, from what I´ve seen now. But I don´t think that makes acupuncture a "quack". If you do feel like that, that´s your opinion.
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floridian
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Quote:| Show me some solid scientific proof that acupuncture works and I will change my mind. |
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No good evidence that acupuncture helps with clusters, but plenty of science to show that it might.
Here is a sampling of articles to show that acupuncture can increase or decrease the production of nitric oxide, depending on the needle points chosen. Nitric oxide is overproduced in clusters, and it causes blood vessels to expand and pinch nerves.
J Tradit Chin Med. 2003 Jun;23(2):127-8. Effects of warm needling at zusanli (ST 36) on NO and IL-2 levels in the middle-aged and old people.
J Neurophysiol. 2003 Aug;90(2):780-5. Epub 2003 Apr 02. Nitric oxide in the gracile nucleus mediates depressor response to acupuncture (ST36).
Am J Chin Med. 2003;31(4):581-90. Acupuncture modulates expressions of nitric oxide synthase and c-Fos in hippocampus after transient global ischemia in gerbils.
Neurosci Lett. 2003 Aug 14;347(1):5-8. Acupuncture suppresses ischemia-induced increase in c-Fos expression and apoptosis in the hippocampal CA1 region in gerbils.
Acupunct Electrother Res. 2003;28(1-2):1-10. Effect of acupuncture on nitric oxide synthase expression in cerebral cortex of streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats.
Sheng Li Xue Bao. 1999 Oct;51(5):508-14. [Effect of electroacupuncture and 7-NI on penicillin-induced epilepsy and their relation with intrahippocampal NO changes]
Acupunct Electrother Res. 2000;25(3-4):137-43. Anticonvulsion effect of acupuncture might be related to the decrease of neuronal and inducible nitric oxide synthases.
Quackwatch not withstanding, there is ample proof that acupuncture can be used effectively for many conditions. Pubmed lists 8848 articles that deal with the topic of acupuncture, including many well designed and controlled experiments. The non-specific effects of acupuncture involve analgesia and pain relief via the release of endorphins. For this, the choice of points is not that critical. Acupuncture has also been shown to affect particular organs and tissues, although this requires more skill in choosing and stimulating the points.
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BobG
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #30 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 2:54pm » |
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Here you go Hannah. The list is to long for one message so look for more under this.
The following is NOT to be taken seriously.......
A quick search, copy and paste and we have a list of fixes for clusters.
They were all posted at this site, some more than once.
Some are serious and some are….well…you decide.
I do not endorse nor dis-dorse any of them.
a non-invasive killing of the nerves surgery
BC-Pain Relief powder
sneezes 6 times cycle will start, 6 more and it stops
try a hypnotherapist
snorts cayenne pepper
iv injections of hydrogen peroxide and mangenese
Go braless
spearmint tea
a fat peperoncini pepper seeds and all
being pregnant stops her ch
a medical student with a cure but won’t share it
Norgesic Forte
gives herself DHE shots
Feverfew
non-prescrip anti-histamine tablets stopped ch
Pot helps a lot
emu oil
Radio Frequency Lesion
RFG (Radio Frequency Generator)
Magnesium
LSA & LSD
aspirin & ibuprofen
ear plugs stop ch
go on a diet to stop ch
Drez Procedure
Tylenol and Xanax
Charge Plus 2
hypnosis and a nice bath
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BobG
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #31 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 2:55pm » |
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More for Hannah
enzyme called Tryosinase
Duragesic Patch
histamine phosphate by IV stops clusters
Vioxx
Stereotactic Radio Frequency Rhizotomy
takes other people's percocet
gamma knife
try a colonic
High Colonic using vinegar
snort apple cider vinegar
craniofacial manipulation
take Fioricette and lay down
alcohol drink "brain wrench" stops ch
try peppermint oil on the lump on your neck
The Remyelinization Process
a "spiritual cleansing"
aspirin
narcotics
hyperventilation will cure clusters
clip corrugator muscles
accupuncture
lowering cholestrol will reduce ch
a chiropodist fixed his pelvis & cured ch
O2Zone
wears a device in his mouth to stop ch
Percodan
Oxicontin tablets
Asprin with codine
take a panadol and then fully focus on something
Elimination diet
capsaicin cream
GABA
saline injections in your fat
jacking off
2 benedryl, 2 aspirin, & coffee cures ch
morphine shots
'tissue salts'
anti-biotic shot
Stadol & other opiates
a very tight hat band
Hangovers work for me
try pouring hot water down your nostril
food additives need to be flushed out
cluster cure is mind over matter
ch is caused by depression and cured with caffine
quit consuming caffine
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BobG
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #32 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 2:56pm » |
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Even more for Hannah
detox tea
post-heart attack meds
Atlas Ortogonist Treatment
Migranal
butorphanol spray
Advil and chiropractors
Ambrotose
wants a bone in his neck shaved
his church prayed for him and he was cured
the schroom treatment
Oragel
Atlas Orthogonal
chelation therapy
ride a bike real fast
valerian root
Blue Green Algae
magnezium
B6
pot
hycodan
pray to Jesus and quit smoking cures ch
Omega-3 in fish oil
cuts off blood to head ‘til he passes out
sphenopalatine ganglion block
Alegra
Relaxatia
sniff amonia
tilting his head back will stop ch
Sharper Image Quadra Ionic Breeze ionizer
shots of cortizone in the back
sniff Camomile
dental bite reshaping stops ch
crush and snort imitrex pills
Midol
orgasms will stop her headaches
Prozac
excersize
squirt Xylocaine up your nose
DEEP neck massage
Migra-lieve
effedrine HCL
bleu cheese under her tongue
diflucan
Nasal Irrigation
take Diazepam with a beer or 2 or 3
acupunturist taped magnets and birdseed to his ears
oxycontin & percocet
ectasy
a hard-on will keep blood from head and stop ch
ibuprofen and Red Bull
NAET(nambudripad allergy elimaination technique)
Inderal and Peritrate
her Harley's vibration stops ch
Passion Fruit
a vinagar bath
fruit juice stops ch in people with Hypoglocemia
Valium
ULTRAM 50 mg tablet mcn
takes narcotics as prevenative but is not in cycle for 3 years
Tahitian Noni Juice
Says ch is cured by Deliverance or exorcism to cast out devils
Ace Inhibitors
Phalenz
DRUGS, DRUGS!
Phallenx
Actiq lollipop
seconals
do excerises
Testosterone treatment
ginger powder
Salvia Divinorum
magnetic pillow
grape juice and gingerale
had trigeminal nerve removed
eye drops and sleeping pills
blowing a hair dryer in my ear
drink 64 oz of water a day
lidocaine shots around the eye
Boji stones
Deseril twice a day
Bath in Lavender oil
two Tylex every four hours
bag of peas
cortgard
some sort of Beta blocker
Chinese Tiao He Cleanse
`Boldo`
liquid oxygen
BE PURE from Africa
sex can provide relief, my wife thinks I'm full of crap
shake off with some OTC meds
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BobG
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #33 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 2:58pm » |
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Hannah, want some more cures?
vibrating glasses
chew on ice
Wellbutrin
see a medicine man from some tribe
try holotropic breathwork
give access to the cosmic unconscious
LASIK
Acular eye drop steroid
Peppermint oil on your temple
cyproheptadine
Breast Reduction
hylands migraine “and boy it works good”
Oil of Evening Primrose
desoxyn
Nexium
infusion therapy
The Big “O”
my husband bought me a vibrator.
clstr-caps
migr-ease
steam still works!!
over-the-counter Italian pills Aulin
Goodys PM
Solaray-Mega B-Stress timed release supplements
room IONIZERS
tiny electrode under scalp zaps crippling headache
OPC3
subluxation
morphine pills
jaw disc surgery
injection of novicaine/cortizone in the base of my skull.
hops
Mygrex
oxygen pills
fill one of my inhalers with liquor, then snort it.
I strangle myself
12-hour Sudafed
Albuteral inhaler
Myofascial Release
A baseball cap, loaded with 3 cheapie ice lollies
Doxipin
IMHO, the winners are!
novacaine shots in the back of the head
uses a pad sander to message his head
taking a shit relieves a ch
Bet you're sorry you asked, huh?
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Lizzie2
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #34 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 3:03pm » |
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wow bob...that's what people claimed worked? some of those made me laugh so hard i snarfed my juice. but a couple of them actually are used in treatment of ch by neuros and have been shown to be effective for some people. migranal (despite it's migraine name) is DHE in nasal spray form....can abort for some who are freakish about shots...that's why they developed it. there's a few others that have worked for some people...but a lot on your list...funny!
~lizzie
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CJohnson
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #35 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 3:27pm » |
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Ha Ha. Subluxation. Ueli spoke often of him. Ueli was my hero....
PFDANs
-Curtis
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BobG
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #36 on: Jan 14th, 2004, 4:09pm » |
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on Jan 14th, 2004, 3:03pm, chronic_chic wrote:wow bob...that's what people claimed worked?
~lizzie |
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Yep. All of them are from this web site. Some can be taken serious and the rest.....?? They were copy/pasted from just the first 3 years of archives. Then I figured the list was long enough and I stopped collecting them.
I also have a list of triggers about the same length.
I know what you're thinking and the answere is Yes,
I have no life. 
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HannahFroukje
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Re: accupuncture
« Reply #37 on: Jan 17th, 2004, 12:52am » |
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on Jan 14th, 2004, 2:58pm, BobG wrote:Hannah, want some more cures?
Bet you're sorry you asked, huh? |
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Well, I'm still looking for the real point you were trying to make. You don't need to tell me that there are a lot of things that do not help, we know you know ... it's not like Jos is taking an aspirine and whoops his whole cycle is over  . We've tried enough that didn't help and searched and searched. I could have condemned mushrooms as another quack too ...
Look, if you want to make me look rediculous in my effort to be able to help people better in the future, you really need a lot of text to do so. If you want to contribute to what I was asking then give me an honest list of your own and tell me what YOU tried and what helped you if only a little. That would help better. If you don't (want to) understand the question or if you don't see a point in answering the real question that I asked (because this was not it), because you believe it is no use, you don't need so much text. There is enough explanation in the thread about what the purpose is. So if you don't see the point, blanco is fine too.
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