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Topic: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian (Read 544 times) |
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pubgirl
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Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 3:30pm » |
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Calling Floridian, Ueli and other knowledgeable types!
Can't get anywhere with a search on this one. Have a Uk (not mad and probably genuine) sufferer who claims evidence for magnesium citrate reducing frequency and severity.
What think you?
Wendy the Brit person
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floridian
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #1 on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 3:38pm » |
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There is some evidence for that. Intravenous is most studied - tends to be quick and effective. Oral magnesium may help as well - it is not proven in an iron-clad way, but seems to help some people.
Quote:
Lodi R, Iotti S, Cortelli P, Pierangeli G, Cevoli S, Clementi V, Soriani S, Montagna P, Barbiroli B.
Deficient energy metabolism is associated with low free magnesium in the brains of patients with migraine and cluster headache. Brain Res Bull. 2001 Mar 1;54(4):437-41.
PMID: 11306197
Mauskop A, Altura BT, Cracco RQ, Altura BM.
Intravenous magnesium sulfate relieves cluster headaches in patients with low serum ionized magnesium levels.
Headache. 1995 Nov-Dec;35(10):597-600.
PMID: 8550360 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Some other Brits proved that a warm bath with a pound of epsom salts is another way to get magnesium into the body, and it doesnt risk the digestive upset. Epsom salts taken internally are guaranteed to cause problems - it is a strong laxative. http://www.mgwater.com/transdermal.shtml
Though if a warm bath triggers a persons CH, that method may not work.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2005, 3:46pm by floridian » |
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Lizzie2
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #2 on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 4:10pm » |
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Here's a small bit from a research article I wrote last spring regarding the use of riboflavin and magnesium for headache and migraine prevention. Don't know if this helps much, but I thought I'd post it for you...
Quote: Magnesium has been studied in relation to both migraine and cluster headache. One study done by A Mauskop of the New York Headache Center described the levels of IMg2+ levels as determining how patients with migraine and cluster headache would react to IV MgSO4. It was found that levels of IMg2+ below 0.54 mmol/L were related to symptoms of pulsatile pain. Therefore, it was determined by the study that patients presenting with pulsating pain may have low levels of IMg2+. The previously mentioned study by neurologists at New England Center for Headache states that deficiencies in magnesium may be related to brain hyperexcitability. Their study states that “low magnesium can result in opening of calcium channels, increased intracellular calcium, glutamate release, and increased extracellular potassium, which may in turn trigger cortical spreading depression.” Cortical spreading depression has been shown to be related to migraine with aura.
However, the effectiveness of magnesium in the treatment of migraine has not been entirely determined. One study using oral magnesium di-citrate at a dose of 600mg/day showed effectiveness, but another study using magnesium aspartate was not effective at migraine prevention. It has been hypothesized that the difference in success with these two studies could be based on a difference in dosages of magnesium and a difference in the salts.
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JJA
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #3 on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 4:26pm » |
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Floridian, off on a tangent here...
You put together a good case that clusters can be caused by poor oxygenation to the brain. Some causes for that are apnea, PFO, etc. When I read
Quote:| Deficient energy metabolism is associated with low free magnesium in the brains of patients with migraine and cluster headache |
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it caught my attention. Perhaps in some CH cases, despite proper oxygen levels in the blood, deficient energy metabolism could have the same effect as poor oxygenation. The brain wants more blood...vasodilation. They suspect mitochondrial dysfunction and cite a few sources where mitochondrial DNA mutations were seen. Odawara, M.; Tamaoka, A.; Mizusawa, H.; Yamashita, K. A case of cluster headache associated with mitochondrial DNA deletions. MuscleNerve 20:394 –395; 1997.)
What do you know about CoQ10 (which is supposed to improve mitochodrial function) and CH?
Jesse
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floridian
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #4 on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 4:36pm » |
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Magnesium also is involved in blood vessel function, and it is a mild calcium channel blocker (as Lizzie mentioned). So it is hard to say how it helps clusters and migraines.
I will dig into CoQ10 a bit over the next few days. I take it for my heart and other reasons - good stuff, not sure if it helps with clusters or not.
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Lizzie2
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #5 on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 5:54pm » |
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on Feb 23rd, 2005, 4:36pm, floridian wrote:Magnesium also is involved in blood vessel function, and it is a mild calcium channel blocker (as Lizzie mentioned). So it is hard to say how it helps clusters and migraines.
I will dig into CoQ10 a bit over the next few days. I take it for my heart and other reasons - good stuff, not sure if it helps with clusters or not.
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CoQ10 has been found to be helpful in migraine prevention for some, but I'm not sure of its role for cluster...or even if it has been studied at all.
I'm fighting round 2 of an antibiotic resistant form of Strep throat, but if I can drag my head off the pillow, I'll try to do some digging as well!
Lizzie 
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JJA
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #6 on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 6:34pm » |
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In the article you cited, they say free magnesium is a regulated by metabolism. I'm not sure if they are saying that supplemental magnesium would help metabolism, just that low levels indicate a dysfunction. In fact they say Quote:| It seems important to note that the brains of our patients in the presence of normal free Mg [concentration] would have displayed an even lower amount of energy released by ATP hydrolysis |
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They say that CoQ10 increased free cystolic Mg2+ in people with mitochondrial dysfunction by increasing "brain bioenergetics."
Certainly one way to lower metabolism would be to reduce oxygen supply, like in apnea, occlusion, etc. Another way is through mitochondrial dysfunction, which could explain CH presence in people in good vascular health. I guess it's naive to think it's one or the other.
On the other hand, the obvious next step for these authors would have been to test the efficacy CoQ10. That would have made a nice follow up paper if it worked, but probably wouldn't be published if it failed.
Thanks for the interesting read, floridian. I'd never find this stuff if not for you.
Don't trouble yourself Lizzie, important things first. Get some rest.
Sorry for derailing your post, Wendy.
Jesse
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Ellick
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #7 on: Feb 24th, 2005, 5:35pm » |
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I have been taking Magnesium citrate (orally) and vitamin B-complex for 3 weeks now. It has not had any impact on my current cycle. My GP said there was no evidence to support the claims for it. Sadly in my case that is true. I have read an article where someone claimed complete remission after taking M c and B - complex.
ET. 
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ET
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Kris_in_SJ
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #8 on: Feb 24th, 2005, 8:14pm » |
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All Magnesium did for me was give me severe diarrhea - sure helped cure the Verapamil constipation, though!
Kris
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Lizzie2
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #9 on: Feb 24th, 2005, 11:04pm » |
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on Feb 24th, 2005, 8:14pm, Kris_in_SJ wrote:All Magnesium did for me was give me severe diarrhea - sure helped cure the Verapamil constipation, though!
Kris |
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LOL what were your doses? I don't have that side effect (thank goodness because I have enough problems and had to see a GI specialist for the first time this morning!), but I'm currently on 500mg of Magnesium a day (split 250mg BID) and 480mg of Verap a day (split 120mg QID). My neuro thinks I'm taking 800mg a day of the verap, which I was until I got pissed off at him. And 480 does the same for me as 800 but with less side effects. Guess I'll have to share that fun fact at my next appointment in March! 
Hugz,
Lizzie
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laguna
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #10 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:23pm » |
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I'm taking magnesium citrate and it has changed my life. In three days of use I ended a two year cycle. I am keeping my fingers crossed! It has been two months of happiness after two years of hell! You can reduce the chance of diarrhea by taking magnesium citrate and not the magnesium oxide. Fortunately, I needed to losen up a little. 
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| « Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:40pm by laguna » |
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Sophie
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #11 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 8:58pm » |
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I let this cute little guy at the health food store, talk me into a bottle of magnesium citrate. It came in a powder form and was disolved in hot water. It was supposed to cure the CH. I didn't get any help from this drink for CH, but it came in handy as a laxitive when taking R/X drugs.
It cost $22.00 USA-----for 8oz of powder. My opinion is don't bother---but that's just me. Sophie
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AND WHY AM I IN THIS HANDBASKET?
Cluster Buster
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Jonny
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #12 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 9:15pm » |
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Your all fucking nuts 
ET got it right
on Feb 24th, 2005, 5:35pm, Ellick wrote:| ET. |
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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unsolved1
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #13 on: Mar 4th, 2005, 9:28pm » |
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BTW ... The Diamond Headache Clinic uses Magnesium for Migraine patients but not cluster patients.
Unsolved 
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Renee
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #14 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 7:36am » |
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My local neuro uses magnesium via IV to break clusters. It works.
I take 500mg magnesium daily and 250mg coQ10. Found these bring fewer and weaker hits.
I was prescribed these by Dr. Sheftell at NECH for clusters.
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23 years of battling the beast, 9 years chronic......uneducated docs/nurses make me irate.
The fungus among us is for real!
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Lizzie2
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #15 on: Mar 5th, 2005, 10:28am » |
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I refuse to receive IV Mag Sulfate unless I have a PICC line. I have the worst veins ever after all the hospital stuff I've been through, and the minute Mag Sulfate runs through a peripheral line for me, I'm in tears because it burns so badly. There is no slower setting where they can run it and I can still tolerate it. They dilute the hell out of it. Mag Sulfate IV is EXTREMELY painful to receive unless you get it through some form of central line.
I was loving it with the central line because I didn't feel it at all. When I didn't have the PICC at first, the neuro resident told me he would never put someone on Mag who had a peripheral line and their lab values were within normal limits. I think out of kindness!!
Overall, it helps my stomach to a degree, but it does absolutely nothing for either my Chronic Daily Migraine or Chronic CH. Well...guess it does help some, though, or they wouldn't continue to use it!
Carrie
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sweetiepie
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #16 on: Mar 16th, 2005, 3:01pm » |
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um, new member here (trying to help chronic CH dtr-in-law); can Mag Citrate be bought OTC? - all I could find was mag oxalate. (Walgreen's, Wal-Mart)
Was flabbergasted to find this site, esp. its size and complexity.
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godsjoy777
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #17 on: Mar 16th, 2005, 10:46pm » |
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Bless you for helping your dtr in law.....glad you found this site too....I take magnesium malate (chelated mineral supplement) from the health food store.....This does have a laxative effect probably along with some of the Kudzu.....I take it at night along with 3mgs of meletonin and my zonegran(that I'd like to taper off of as well)....I have been Cluster free for 3 nights now....Don't know if it is the end of cycle or the Kudzu mag mix....I do know I upped my kudzu/mag/meletonin dose at night before I went pain free......
Hope it helps.....Bless you all,
Karen
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sweetiepie
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Re: Magnesium Citrate, calling Floridian
« Reply #18 on: Mar 20th, 2005, 3:55pm » |
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hey, Karen: Talked to DIL 2day, she took 1/2 of a 3 mg melatonin and said she slept 3 hours straight, (unusual, I guess) but also said she'd taken a Vicodin (which I didn't know about); things R bad due to a child's death among her circle of friends
Am going to ask her to get magnesium levels checked soon as she has enuf $ to go back to MD.
Very glad U've hit on a winning combo!
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