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hacktothefuture

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High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive
Jul 30^th, 2008 at 11:12am

Hello All

I generally don't post much on the board and really use it almost as therapy. Whenever Im going through one of my bouts and can't get rid of it, I almost find it therapeutic to see that Im not alone in dealing with CH's.

Anyway, I thought I would post a little a discovery Ive made in the last few days in case it might help someone.

A few years ago I discovered Red Bull as an abortive (because of this board) and it has always worked for me! I was thrilled! It really changed my life. The only times I remember being hit was when I was caught by surprise in public and RB was no available.

In the last few weeks Ive been on a special diet called a cyclical ketogenic diet. It is basically the Atkins diet but geared towards bodybuilders. Its focused on lots of calories usually from fat and lots of proteins in order to build muscle. Carbs are extremely limited on this diet in order to place the body in ketosis (essentially, fat burning mode).

Anyway, Ive felt an attack coming on a few times and taken my normal red bull and nothing. No effect! I got my normal headache ranging from KIP 7-9. I was pissed. I knew that some people ended up becoming 'immune' to Red Bull as an abortive and I was praying that wasnt happening to me.

Well this week Ive been woken up with signs of an impending attack. I quickly threw my normal Red Bull down (with an execedrin for fear the Red Bull was still not going to work) and bam, attack aborted.

I started to think about this and have a theory. As Ive been eating high fat/high protein foods both of which are known to slow digestion and nutrient absorption way down, it has been hard for me body to absorb the Red Bull quickly enough to abort the attacks. As both of the attacks this week were after a night of sleep (essentially an 8 hour fast), my stomach was empty and hence could abosrb the RB with ease and abort the attack.

Needless to say I am very happy that RB's still seem to be effective.

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Guiseppi

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Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive
Reply #1 - Jul 30^th, 2008 at 12:34pm

You also might want to pick up some pH strips and start tracking your pH. Measuring the pH of your saliva is easy and it will provide a good, but not exact indication of arterial pH. A low arterial pH (too much acid) tends to increase the frequency and intensity of cluster headache attacks. You can pick up some reasonably priced pH test strips from pH-ion on line at:
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If your pH is low, you may want to check out some dietary tips on how to raise it at the following link:

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Mineral supplements (Calcium and Magnesium with Zinc) and simple diet changes from the link above can raise your system pH and this may help to reduce the frequency and intensity of your cluster headache attacks.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

That was an excerpt from a response Batch had to an 02 question. It's the first time someone has explained to me why the magnesium supplement I've been taking has such a profoundly positive impact on my CH. While I doubt any drastic change in diet will ever "cure" CH, it is an important component in CH management. That being said, if you don't already have 02, it's far too cheap and effective a treatment for many to not at least give it a try. 30 years of CH it's still my first line abortive. Hoping your cycle is on the way out.

Guiseppi

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"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.

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Batch

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Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive
Reply #2 - Jul 30^th, 2008 at 10:46pm

Guiseppi,

Thank you... You were listening... Good on you!

Hack... Diet will have a significant effect on your arterial pH. If your pH is low (too much acid), the cluster headache triggering mechanism is far more effective, i.e., your attacks will be more frequent and more intense. A low pH will also make oxygen therapy less effective.

Too much acid forming food like eating meat and fats will make your arterial pH drop like a rock - and yes, I'm very familiar with the Atkins diet. I've used it many times and it works, but you go into ketosis and acidosis as a result... Not good if you're a clusterhead as you've already discovered.

The simple solution is to change your diet and start eating more green vegies while eating less meats and fats. Also, taking mineral suppliments with Calcium and Magnesium with Zinc will jump start an elevation in pH. Nature Made has a reasonably priced product you can get at Sams or Costco.

The links Guiseppi gave you are spot on... read'em. If you don't have an Rx for oxygen... Get one. Guiseppi is spot on there as well.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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DennisM1045 CH.com Alumnus Offline One wave at a time! Posts: 3437 Haverhill, Massachusetts, USA Gender:	Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive Reply #3 - Jul 31^st, 2008 at 1:00pm In 2002 I had one of my worst cycles ever. It was the same time I went on the Atkin's diet. While I figured out it was making my headaches more intense I never knew why till now. Thanks Batch! -Dennis-
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sandie99 CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Wish it, dream it, do it - inspite the pain! Posts: 11975 Finland Gender:	Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive Reply #4 - Aug 2^nd, 2008 at 3:59am That was very interesting information. Thank you so much, guys! I'm going to share that link with a friend of mine as well. This is one of the reasons I love this site; every day there's a great chance to learn lots of news things. PF days to us all, Sanna
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CostaRicaKris

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Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive
Reply #5 - Aug 2^nd, 2008 at 11:02am

Very interesting!! Thanks guys!

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hacktothefuture CH.com Newbie Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 4 x0\|Tampa\|USA\|\|0\|0\|FL,Florida	Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive Reply #6 - Aug 4^th, 2008 at 6:25pm Thanks so much everyone for the information. After reading this it explains exactly what is going on!
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washed-out

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Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive
Reply #7 - Aug 4^th, 2008 at 10:03pm

I've been on a high fat died for a few days and I didn't notice any change in my CH pattern (no good, no bad) but of course Batch's post is very correct. Maybe it didn't affect my CH because I was taking Ca, Mg and Zc as he mentioned in that post.

Tho I felt very bad when I was on it and I can't really recommend it anyone... (little offtopic Tongue

) Maybe I am just too young and such a diets are for "mature" people whos bodies don't "develop" as much as teenager's.

By the way - when I was on a diet I couldn't drink my energetic drinks (pretty much calories + so much sugar). I've just discovered that there are also sugarfree versions (e.g. Red Bull). Do you know if those are as efficient as normal ones? The same amount of caffeine but no sugar, should work. On the other hand I heard that things like aspartame (dunno how to call them in eng, non-saccharide sweeteners I think) can cause some headaches... Anyway I will try it for sure, I've already drunk a few but it wasn't during pain time (I just wanted to check how do they taste;-).

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« Last Edit: Aug 4^th, 2008 at 10:09pm by washed-out »

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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive Reply #8 - Aug 5^th, 2008 at 12:01am As I understand it, the active ingredients for CH is the caffeine and the taurine, I suspect the diet aspect wouldn't affect how well it works, certainly worth a shot!!! Guiseppi edited cuz I can't spell
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slacker032 CH.com Old Timer Offline Posts: 325 Los Angeles, CA Gender:	Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive Reply #9 - Aug 5^th, 2008 at 2:08am Has anybody had significant success fighting the beast by going completely vegetarian or pescetarian?
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sandie99

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Re: High Fat/Protein Diet and Red Bull as an Abortive
Reply #10 - Aug 5^th, 2008 at 8:41am

washed-out wrote on Aug 4^th, 2008 at 10:03pm:

I've just discovered that there are also sugarfree versions (e.g. Red Bull). Do you know if those are as efficient as normal ones?

I've used a lot of energy drinks, both regular and sugarfree and, so far, both worked with my hits. But, if I can freely pick the one I use, I'll choose the regular every time - the sugarfree ones I've tried taste horrible... Lips Sealed

But I must admit that I can't imagine drinking these drinks for fun like I've seen many, many Finnish teenagers do! Shocked

Sanna

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