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Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!! (Read 3188 times)
cappu99
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Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Feb 7th, 2010 at 12:27pm
 
Hello to all. I'm new to this site, and have been reading some post for the last couple of hours. I've been dealing with ch since 1986. I've tried many meds but I don't tolerate them very well. About ten years ago I was a case study for radio frequency(RF) in the east coast. My DR. was very familiar with this procedure, its was studied on the west coast with some success. I agreed to try and went three years ch free. Next time had it done, two years ch free. I have it done every year and its worked great for me, until this month. usually two-three days after procedure my ch's are gone. My dr. had trouble locating the nerve the last time I had this performed.I was the first PT of the day 6am(I'll never do that again)  He has been on vacation so I have not discussed this with him yet.
   Back on the imitrex. I've been getting two hits per day.
  I would recommend this procedure, its worked great for me. Its about a 1/2 hour outpatient. My Dr. inserts 4 needles just above the nerve and then burns it with RF. The nerve will regenerate and that's the reason for having it done a few times. I'm just North of Boston MA and if anyone want more info just let me know.
  I will call My Dr. tomorrow and try to find out what went wrong this time..I'll keep you posted.
by the way this is a great site .....have a good day
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #1 - Feb 7th, 2010 at 12:43pm
 
I try and follow the major lines of research literature on the various forms of surgery which are being explored. At this point, outcome studies are sufficiently mixed (good, bad, indifferent, dangerous, etc.) that I can't imagine they will become a major form of therapy for some time.

But 20-years ago, we could have said the same thing about many of the meds which are now our first-line choices---so, we will watch and hope. You have to be solidly middle-age <bg> to appreciate just how important have been the improvements in treatment of CH: more will yet come.
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ordiefam
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #2 - Feb 8th, 2010 at 11:33am
 
I had this procedure done and it made my migraines and CH worse.  My new Neurologist does not believe in it.  So strange how different doctors come up with different things.  I hope you find some relief!
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bejeeber
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #3 - Feb 8th, 2010 at 11:03pm
 
Hey Cappu99,

Now that you're back on the Imitrex, have you seen this tip?:
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If not, and if you're using injections, this could be a big deal for you, as it has been for me and many others here.
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CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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cappu99
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #4 - Feb 9th, 2010 at 9:16am
 
Yes, I have been using that tip for the last few days...1/3 works for me. Thats a great tip..thanks so much.  I get a midnight and then a 5am ch everynight. I tried the melatonin  (6mg) last two nights with no luck. I have not had a good nights sleep in three weeks.

I'm waiting for my Dr. to discuss vermapamil!!!
Thanks again!!
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Guiseppi
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #5 - Feb 9th, 2010 at 10:03am
 
Top of the morning to ya! If the procedure doesn't work....and I really hope it does, sounds like you're having a tough go......then please do look into the oxygen route. Read the oxygen info link on the left as it must be used correctly or it's worthless. I can halt an attack in less then 10 minutes just huffing the 02....and no imitrex hangover afterwards! Works great on the wake up hits.

Hoping the procedure works this next go round.

Joe
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"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
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Lefty
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #6 - Feb 9th, 2010 at 10:29am
 
Quote:
Top of the morning to ya!


Who's been doing to much partying with the Oirish.. Grin



Lefty...!
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"When money's tight and is hard to get
And your horse has also ran,
When all you have is a heap of debt
A PINT OF PLAIN IS YOUR ONLY MAN."
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Guiseppi
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #7 - Feb 9th, 2010 at 10:40am
 
Lefty wrote on Feb 9th, 2010 at 10:29am:
Quote:
Top of the morning to ya!


Who's been doing to much partying with the Oirish.. Grin


Oh the Irish, the English, the Italians....I'm certainly not choosy! Wink

Joe


Lefty...!

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"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #8 - Feb 10th, 2010 at 8:29am
 
That your doc has not introducted Verapamil into the discussion makes me uneasy. It has been used with for many years as a major preventive with much good effect and safety. I'd encourage you to press the question. (If you read here for a long tilme you will see just how many of us have had to direct our treatment because docs lack kowledged/skill in this area.)
======
Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.

    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).
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SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.
---------
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Here is a link to read and print and take to your doctor.  It describes preventive, transitional, abortive and surgical treatments for CH. Written by one of the better headache docs in the U.S.  (2002)
================
Michigan Headache & Neurological Institute for another list of treatments and other articles:

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===========
And this one is largely for you:

 
Cluster headache.
From: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register (Orphanet Journal of Rare Diseases)
[Easy to read; one of the better overview articles I've seen. Suggest printing the full length article--link, line above--if you are serious about keeping a good medical library on the subject.]

Leroux E, Ducros A.

ABSTRACT: Cluster headache (CH) is a primary headache disease characterized by recurrent short-lasting attacks (15 to 180 minutes) of excruciating unilateral periorbital pain accompanied by ipsilateral autonomic signs (lacrimation, nasal congestion, ptosis, miosis, lid edema, redness of the eye). It affects young adults, predominantly males. Prevalence is estimated at 0.5-1.0/1,000. CH has a circannual and circadian periodicity, attacks being clustered (hence the name) in bouts that can occur during specific months of the year. ALCOHOL IS THE ONLY DIETARY TRIGGER OF CH, STRONG ODORS (MAINLY SOLVENTS AND CIGARETTE SMOKE) AND NAPPING MAY ALSO TRIGGER CH ATTACKS. During bouts, attacks may happen at precise hours, especially during the night. During the attacks, patients tend to be restless. CH may be episodic or chronic, depending on the presence of remission periods. CH IS ASSOCIATED WITH TRIGEMINOVASCULAR ACTIVATION AND NEUROENDOCRINE AND VEGETATIVE DISTURBANCES, HOWEVER, THE PRECISE CAUSATIVE MECHANISMS REMAIN UNKNOWN. Involvement of the hypothalamus (a structure regulating endocrine function and sleep-wake rhythms) has been confirmed, explaining, at least in part, the cyclic aspects of CH. The disease is familial in about 10% of cases. Genetic factors play a role in CH susceptibility, and a causative role has been suggested for the hypocretin receptor gene. Diagnosis is clinical. Differential diagnoses include other primary headache diseases such as migraine, paroxysmal hemicrania and SUNCT syndrome. At present, there is no curative treatment. There are efficient treatments to shorten the painful attacks (acute treatments) and to reduce the number of daily attacks (prophylactic treatments). Acute treatment is based on subcutaneous administration of sumatriptan and high-flow oxygen. Verapamil, lithium, methysergide, prednisone, greater occipital nerve blocks and topiramate may be used for prophylaxis. In refractory cases, deep-brain stimulation of the hypothalamus and greater occipital nerve stimulators have been tried in experimental settings.THE DISEASE COURSE OVER A LIFETIME IS UNPREDICTABLE. Some patients have only one period of attacks, while in others the disease evolves from episodic to chronic form.

PMID: 18651939 [PubMed]
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« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2010 at 8:31am by Bob Johnson »  

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cappu99
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #9 - Feb 10th, 2010 at 12:32pm
 
WOW! Thanks for the info. I had a visit with my Doc. this morning. I am having the radio-frequency again on March 3rd. They believe the reason it did not work this time is because I was heavily sedated. In the past I have had this done with no sedation and got years of relief. With to much sedation I probably was telling them I felt tingling along the nerve, but I probably didn't. I don't remember a thing they definitely over sedated me. Anyway I will give it another go in three weeks and if that don't work we will discuss verapamil or other meds. My pain specialist is not a nuero and they suggested  I contact one to assist with meds..I need to locate a nuero that is familiar with clusters....anybody have a reference..I live in MA just north of Boston....Thanks again for the info!!!!!
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #10 - Feb 10th, 2010 at 3:19pm
 
Quote:
Anyway I will give it another go in three weeks and if that don't work we will discuss verapamil or other meds.

My gut reaction to this is akin to, "If the neutron bomb doesn't work, we'll send in the infantry."
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"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
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Potter
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #11 - Feb 10th, 2010 at 3:37pm
 
Brew wrote on Feb 10th, 2010 at 3:19pm:
Quote:
Anyway I will give it another go in three weeks and if that don't work we will discuss verapamil or other meds.

My gut reaction to this is akin to, "If the neutron bomb doesn't work, we'll send in the infantry."

   I would opt for o2. It's da bomb.

              Potter
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cappu99
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #12 - Feb 10th, 2010 at 5:21pm
 
A member on this site who lives nearby, just sent me his nuerologist info. I made an appt. I will see him in 10 days. I will ask him about o2, vermap.ect....Hopefully they work for me,THANKS again for all the advice!! 

I have not used medication in ten years, I did not tolerate them very well in the past. With the radiofrequency I probably only experienced about ten headaches in ten years...just the ones prior to having the procedure done.
I enjoyed my beer and wine with no triggers,,,never woke up in the middle of the night with a ch,  not even a twinge.

if the meds and o2 do not work for me I will still have the (RF) on March 3,
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Potter
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Re: Radiofrequency thermocoagulation works!!
Reply #13 - Feb 10th, 2010 at 5:57pm
 
cappu99 wrote on Feb 10th, 2010 at 5:21pm:
A member on this site who lives nearby, just sent me his nuerologist info. I made an appt. I will see him in 10 days. I will ask him about o2, vermap.ect....Hopefully they work for me,THANKS again for all the advice!! 

I have not used medication in ten years, I did not tolerate them very well in the past. With the radiofrequency I probably only experienced about ten headaches in ten years...just the ones prior to having the procedure done.
I enjoyed my beer and wine with no triggers,,,never woke up in the middle of the night with a ch,  not even a twinge.

if the meds and o2 do not work for me I will still have the (RF) on March 3,

      Why would you opt for Meds. and brain burnin over oxygen? You're missin it.

            Potter
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