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Buzz CH.com Veteran Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 146 x0\|London\|United_Kingdom\|\|0\|0\| Gender:	UK Oxygen regulators Jun 10^th, 2010 at 1:34pm Does anyone in the UK know whether there are any regulators that deliver more than 15 litres per minute? I'm with Air Products, whose service is excellent, but they say the max they do is 15 litres/min. And if I can't get a bigger regulator, is there a mixer available where I can draw 15 lpm from one tank and say, 5 lpm from another...
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QnHeartMM CH.com Sponsor Offline I AM a Phoenix! Posts: 1783 San Diego, CA Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #1 - Jun 10^th, 2010 at 3:39pm You might be able to just buy one on ebay or something to fit your tank.
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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #2 - Jun 10^th, 2010 at 3:39pm

Hey Buzz,

Contact the Flotec Inc. Authorized Representative in Europe at the following:

Emergo Europe
Address: Molenstraat 15 2513 BH
City: The Hague
Country: The Netherlands

Tel: (31) (0) 70 345-8570
Fax: (31) (0) 70 346-7299

You should be able to buy one of the Flotec InGage™ series or a similar series 0-60 liter/minute oxygen regulator from them with the BS No.3 fitting for the oxygen cylinders used in the UK.

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I've two of the US versions of the InGage™ 0-60 liter/minute regulators with CGA-540 fittings and they work great!

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #3 - Jun 10^th, 2010 at 3:41pm If you were to get two regulators that go to 15 lpm and connect them to one hose via a "Y" or "T" -type connection, you would have the capability to push 30 lpm. No mixer needed.
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Buzz CH.com Veteran Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 146 x0\|London\|United_Kingdom\|\|0\|0\| Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #4 - Jun 10^th, 2010 at 7:13pm Thanks guys, Brew the "T" or "Y" is what I'm looking for as the suppliers here won't let us tamper with the tanks or the regs they have on them... I will have to make one from an old bicycle or washing machine. Or Microwave.
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Skull Buster CH.com Junior Offline WARNING: Easily amused Posts: 59 birmingham AL Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #5 - Jun 10^th, 2010 at 10:29pm you can even find boxes of "parts" on e bay. Make anything ya want. I modified an 8 LPM to flo 25+ It works great
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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #6 - Jun 10^th, 2010 at 10:40pm Two tanks. Two regulators. Connect the hoses together. No need to get fancy. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or $1.80
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Buzz CH.com Veteran Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 146 x0\|London\|United_Kingdom\|\|0\|0\| Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #7 - Jun 14^th, 2010 at 12:49pm Got a "Y" piece and now breathe o2 at 30 litres/minute. I'm still not sure that the o2 works for me, but better to breathe it and maybe it helps than to not breathe it and it doesn't... Thanks to all of you for your advice.
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Skyhawk5 CH.com Alumnus Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1320 Ypsilanti, Mi. USA Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #8 - Jun 14^th, 2010 at 4:28pm You may want to read the following about O2. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Don
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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #9 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 11:39am

Brew wrote on Jun 10^th, 2010 at 10:40pm:

Two tanks. Two regulators. Connect the hoses together. No need to get fancy.

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$1.80

Do the math McGyver, If the outlet of the Y is equal to the inlets ya don't increase the volume at all. It's still gonna be 15 lpm.

Potter

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Racer1_NC CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline "Well, let's go see." Posts: 4417 Lewisville, NC Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #10 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 12:28pm Depends on if the maximum flow possible for the ID has been reached or not. The above post is made as a member of clusterheadaches.com and not as a moderator of this forum. No opinion contained in this post represents the official policy of this website, it's owners or it's moderators.
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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #11 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 12:29pm Potter wrote on Jun 15^th, 2010 at 11:39am: Do the math McGyver, If the outlet of the Y is equal to the inlets ya don't increase the volume at all. It's still gonna be 15 lpm. Potter You're assuming the inputs and the outlet are at 100% capacity, McGruber. You can do the math on that one.
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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #12 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 12:33pm

Leave it to an engineer to determine the real answer... Michael Berger a.k.a. Wildhaus, tried the "Y" fitting between two 15 liter/minute integrated oxygen cylinder regulator systems at my suggestion last year as the Swiss doctors would not spring for an oxygen flow rate higher than 15 liters/minute.

After increasing the diameter of final oxygen tube to twice that of the two feeds coming into the "Y" fitting and using special hose clamps, Michael used lab test equipment from work to measure the final flow rate very accurately at 24 liters/minute.

Per. Batch

Potter

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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #13 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 1:37pm

Which means that the output was carrying close to 100% capacity. That's all. Once 100% capacity is exceeded, back-pressure would build, holding the output steady.

My question then becomes, what do people who use high-flow regulators achieve as their final output, especially if they're using standard tubing? In other words, the regulator might be set at 30 or 40 lpm, but the actual output would be somewhat less? No?

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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #14 - Jun 15^th, 2010 at 3:36pm This is where I bow out cuz as soon as the question moves to...a train left detroit at 5:00 at 20 MPH.....my eyes glaze over. Thank God for engineers! Joe
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Mike NZ CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Oxygen rocks! D3 too! Posts: 3785 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #15 - Jun 16^th, 2010 at 12:27am From a physics perspective, trying to calculate flow rates of gases through even a relatively simple system like that gets pretty complicated. So the easy answer is to rig it up and measure it. And if the flow rate you get works, does it really matter what the actual flow rate is?
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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: UK Oxygen regulators Reply #16 - Jun 16^th, 2010 at 7:41am Mike NZ wrote on Jun 16^th, 2010 at 12:27am: And if the flow rate you get works, does it really matter what the actual flow rate is? Yes. Engineers can't just be pain free. They have to be right.
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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #17 - Jun 17^th, 2010 at 10:51am

Bill,

My understanding of the fluid mechanics and the Reynolds numbers involved here are a bit rusty, but I do know that the standard oxygen tubing that comes with the O2PTIMASK™ has more than sufficient capacity to handle a flow rate of 60 liters/minute from my Flotec InGage™ oxygen regulator.

The reason it may not be possible to double the flow rate to the NRB mask by ganging two 15 liter/minute oxygen regulators into a "Y" or "T" fitting has to do with the maximum flow rate and regulated pressure of the regulator itself along with line (oxygen tubing) ID and length that determine the pressure drop and resulting flow rate at the mask.

Constant flow regulators are obviously not all the same... For example an oxygen regulator that supports a DISS fitting for a demand valve requires maximum flow rates of 140 to 160 liters/minute with some as high as 200 liters/minute and regulated pressures of 50 to as high as 70 psi (3.4 to 4.8 Bars).

A 0-15 liter/minute constant flow regulator without a DISS capability has a much lower maximum flow rate and regulated pressure.

I got most of this from the engineers at Flotec. They indicated a regulator's maximum flow rate is determined by the diameter of the calibrated orifice between the cylinder attach fitting and the internal pressure regulator valve that regulates cylinder pressures down to a pressure 20% greater than that required to maintain the maximum selectable flow rate. There's another set of graduated openings down stream from the internal regulator in the “click style” flowmeter module that provide the selected flow rates.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #18 - Jun 17^th, 2010 at 11:07am

Thank you, Batch.

I think the bigger lesson here is that you don't necessarily need to have one regulator that goes beyond 15lpm. Jury-rigging two tanks with regulators whose max flow rate is 15lpm each is going to result in a combined flow rate greater than either of the tanks alone.

Which means faster and more complete relief.

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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #19 - Jun 17^th, 2010 at 11:46am

Brew wrote on Jun 17^th, 2010 at 11:07am:

Thank you, Batch.

I think the bigger lesson here is that you don't necessarily need to have one regulator that goes beyond 15lpm. Jury-rigging two tanks with regulators whose max flow rate is 15lpm each is going to result in a combined flow rate greater than either of the tanks alone.

Which means faster and more complete relief.

If the output side is at least twice the diameter of the input?

Potter

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Re: UK Oxygen regulators
Reply #20 - Jun 17^th, 2010 at 12:46pm

Potter wrote on Jun 17^th, 2010 at 11:46am:

If the output side is at least twice the diameter of the input?

Potter

No. Don't make the assumption that any of the tubing has reached capacity. It's like turning on your garden hose only part way. It still has the capability of accommodating more. And even if it was turned all the way on, its the valve at the spigot that is limiting the flow, not the hose. The hose can still take more.

Quote:

...standard oxygen tubing that comes with the O2PTIMASK™ has more than sufficient capacity to handle a flow rate of 60 liters/minute

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