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Batch

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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Dec 10^th, 2010 at 3:23am

I started an anti-inflammatory regimen of 3,000 mg to 4,000mg Omega 3 Fish Oil and 10,000 I.U. of vitamin D3 a day around the 4th of October and have been pain free ever since.

This could still be yet another, albeit a very pleasant, example of how the beast can change the game. On the other hand, being the kind of guy that wonders why things like this happen, I've tested the water by skipping this daily regimen three times over the last three weeks, each time a week apart.

Each time I skipped taking this anti-inflammatory regimen, I could feel the beast coming back within 24 hours of each skipped dose, usually at night shortly after an hour or so of sleep. These attacks were very mild at Kip-1 to Kip-2 and cleared all by themselves in less than a minute after I got up and started breathing a little faster. I also took the daily dose.

My rationale for starting this anti-inflammatory regimen came about when I noticed the earlier buffering regimen of calcium citrate tablets with vitamin D3, magnesium and zinc I took to elevate a low arterial pH, appeared to work much more effectively when I took the Omega 3 Fish Oil and got more direct sun.

After some research, it appears the body can generate 10,000I.U. of vitamin D3 with as little as 10 minutes of direct sun on exposed skin. See the following two links for more info on anti-inflammatory diets and supplements:

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My two previous two-week remissions occurred while I was spending a couple hours a day working in the yard or out on a boat with lots of direct sunlight... both times wearing a tank top and shorts most of the day.

At that point I was convinced the calcium citrate tablets with vitamin D3, magnesium and zinc washed down with lemonade (high in citric acid) or margaritas (also high in citric acid), with or without the agave, was working as a buffer to elevate my arterial pH to lower the frequency and intensity of my cluster headaches.

Today, I'm convinced more than ever it's the vitamin D3 and Omega 3 Fish Oil that was, and still is, making the most difference by reducing the neurogenic inflammation associated with the pathophysiology of the cluster headache.

Again, this is still very anecdotal, and for sure, we're all wired differently, so individual reactions to this regimen may vary. Having said that, ask your PCP or neurologist about giving this regimen a try. So far for me, it appears to be an effective and inexpensive preventative.

I hope this helps or at least provides food for thought.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2015 at 11:39pm by Batch »

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wimsey1 CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 2457 MA Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1 - Dec 10^th, 2010 at 7:12am Sounds promising, Pete. Thanks, and keep us posted! Blessings. lance
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-johnny- CH.com Sponsor Offline theres no smoking on the dock Posts: 1642 fayette county ohio Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #2 - Dec 10^th, 2010 at 12:10pm question for the board. is there anyway we can make posts like this easier to find or make them more permanent? this is a brilliant post but if i were to refer to it in lets say a year from now it will be buried and hard to find. just a thought
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Mike NZ

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #3 - Dec 10^th, 2010 at 12:56pm

Interesting results Batch.

Have you tried using just one of the two (vitamin D3 and Omega 3 Fish Oil) to see if both are needed or just one of them is?

-johnny- wrote on Dec 10^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

is there anyway we can make posts like this easier to find or make them more permanent? this is a brilliant post but if i were to refer to it in lets say a year from now it will be buried and hard to find.

The moderators have mentioned a hall of fame posts forums or something similar that they are considering. If this happens then this post (like so many of Batch's) would be good candidates for it.

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mikstudie CH.com Old Timer Offline Beastmaster Posts: 284 Westland Mi. Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #4 - Dec 10^th, 2010 at 3:53pm Great thread,Thanks...
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JustNotRight

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #5 - Dec 10^th, 2010 at 8:44pm

Mike NZ wrote on Dec 10^th, 2010 at 12:56pm:

Interesting results Batch.

Have you tried using just one of the two (vitamin D3 and Omega 3 Fish Oil) to see if both are needed or just one of them is?

-johnny- wrote on Dec 10^th, 2010 at 12:10pm:

is there anyway we can make posts like this easier to find or make them more permanent? this is a brilliant post but if i were to refer to it in lets say a year from now it will be buried and hard to find.

The moderators have mentioned a hall of fame posts forums or something similar that they are considering. If this happens then this post (like so many of Batch's) would be good candidates for it.

Mike

I tried Pete's Vitamin D3 2000IU and Omega 3 Fish oil regiment at his suggestion.
I started out with a lower dose of the Vitamin D3 since I am smaller in stature than Pete is. I started with 2 of the V-D3 and 3 Omega Fish oils per day. This turned out to be too much V-D3 for me so I lowered it to 1 V-D3 per day and kept the fish oil @ 3/day. Still turned out to have too much of the V-D3 at even one per day (no wonder I don't do well with too much sun don't need as much of the vitamin since I apparently get enough in my diet) on the chance that it was also too much Omega Fish oil I dropped it to two / day. Not sure if it's just the end of my High cycle time (chronic so I always have the CH almost daily) or if it's the Vitamin supplement Omega 3 Fish oil but I have notice a down tick in the number of hits I've gotten over the last week.

Thank You

Pete

for the suggestion on the vitamins it may have helped me, just in time too, was about to run out of this months rx's for both the nasal and my injectors of Imitrex. The Stash I'd built up after the huge refill I posted about a month or so ago is history! Who knows if I hadn't started this regime right after we met I may be in a whole-nother world of hurt right now. I may whined up adding 1 V-D3 per week, will have to see what the next week or two brings with the number of hits I get.

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Drew_Va CH.com Junior Offline Posts: 74 x1\|Louisa\|USA\|usa\|470\|156\|VA,Virginia Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #6 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 7:46am I'm in a cycle now (peaking it seems) and I already take 3000mg of Omega 3 daily (for years). I upped the dosage yesterday to 4000mg and will add the D3 starting today. Will let y'all know how this turns out.
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Layla328

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #7 - Dec 11^th, 2010 at 3:28pm

Batch,

I am so happy you are still painfree! I am still taking 2 omega fish oil capsules and 5,000 iu vit D--am doing well but with using other meds too. It was so helpful to me when I was down and out that you took the time to try to help me. So glad for you that you are having continued success with your regimen.

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2010 at 3:28pm by Layla328 »

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Batch

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #8 - Dec 12^th, 2010 at 5:21am

Mike,

Great question. Between the Omega 3 Fish Oil and vitamin D3, it appears the vitamin D3 is likely the key factor. I've run on 3,000mg to 4,000mg of Omega 3 Fish Oil a day in the past for five months without any vitamin D3. I took it to combat a high total cholesterol side effect from taking rapamune (sirolimus) I was taking as a participant in a clinical study at NIH for an unrelated eye condition.

Although Omega 3 Fish Oil helped clearly lower the frequency and intensity of my cluster headaches during that period, the results were not as dramatic as when I added the vitamin D3. It did bring my total cholesterol down from 250 to 180 in less than two weeks and kept it there until I finished taking the sirolimus.

I've not tried to run on just the 10,000I.U. of vitamin D3 as yet. I'll give it a try in January if things don't change and let you know either way.

Drew, thanks for giving this regimen a try. That's the only way we can start getting past the anecdotal nature of my results from this regimen.

I started taking the vitamin D3 in the morning before breakfast and it didn't become fully effective until the evening of the second day of 10,000I.U. a day. I was averaging four attacks a night when I started this regimen. The first night I had only two attacks and none the second night.

For 10 years while I was episodic, my cycles always ended in June so this change in cluster headache pattern is clearly not on the same schedule... but then the beast is good at changing the game...

The only side effect I noticed so far from this regimen over the last two months is I've dropped 10 lbs. Of course the extra physical activity of preparing our house for sale in Northern VA, packing out, and moving into the house I built in 1983 near Bremerton, WA could easily explain the weight loss.

Sarah, thanks for the kind words. Glad to hear you're doing better. I take it your oxygen therapy is working better with the new method.

I'm still humming right along at this point and watching Navy beat Army 31 to 17 made the day very special.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Dec 12^th, 2010 at 5:25am by Batch »

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Lauren17

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #9 - Dec 15^th, 2010 at 8:39am

I swear I could make a book from all of the posts of Batch's that I have printed out and put in our kit for next cycle! will be giving this a try for the next one of Lucas's cycle- we'll post the results.

Thank you. I wish there was a way to convey the sentiment behind that as stronger than the "thank you" we say when someone gets you a cup of coffee, for example. Were it a handshake, this thank you would be the 2 handed, knuckle crushing, edging on overly long kind! So thank you, Batch, I'm positive I'll have an opprotunity to say it again in the future.

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Batch

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #10 - Dec 15^th, 2010 at 1:12pm

Lauren,

Thank you for the kind words. I'm happy you've found some of my post interesting enough to print.

As far as the topic of this thread goes and the use of the anti-inflammatory regimen as a preventative... the jury is still out...

I may have overlooked an obvious reason for the cessation of my cluster headaches... I've been geezing so long I may have outlived the beast.

The survey many of us took in 2008 indicates only 5% of cluster headache sufferers are 61 or older. I wish we had worded the age question with additional age group categories or asked for date of birth.

Thanks again for the kind words and take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 19^th, 2011 at 5:22am by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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thebbz Ex Member	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #11 - Dec 15^th, 2010 at 1:35pm Quote: both times wearing a tank top and shorts most of the day. NO PLEASE NO!!! NOT the tank top and shorts again....OH the PAIN, make him stop. Right on thread there Batch...couldn't help myself. bb
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Barry_T_Coles

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #12 - Dec 20^th, 2010 at 9:19pm

BINGO Batch

I don't know why people say I'm slow! Wink

I have read through this thread a hundred times & only just twigged to the similarity to what I have been doing for the last couple of years; as long timers here may recall I started on a magnesium/calcium regime in April 2006 & had varying results with remission from high cycles (I'm chronic) until around July 2008 it was about that time that the Magnesium/Calcium supplements I was taking changed when the manufacturer added Vitamin D3 to the mix, I have now been 880 days in low cycle with only shadows & the occasional ice pick jab.

I haven't tried the fish oil supps as such but I do eat fish at least 3 times a week & enjoy my sardine & onion sandwich as much as 3 times a week as well.

Another anecdotal is that I live in a area where sunlight is pretty much constant all year round & work a job that is 60% office based 40% field work with weekends spent outside except for sleeping.

I wont say that this is the be all & end all of the C word but it has given me a pretty good life away from the constant bashings I was getting before & there are to many similarities to what Batch is achieving to ignore the possibility.

One other thing that i reintroduced into my diet was common table salt; I had gone away from salt after my daughter hounded me for years that it was going to harden the blood pump factory, I don't overdo the intake it's just enough to taste & I believe is helpful in the transmission of neurons.

If I wake up tomorrow with the brain in gear & think of anything else I'll let y'all know.

The tablets I am taking just an off the shelf from the supermarket or chemist and each contain,

" Calcium amino acid chelate 500mg
Calcium carbonate 375 mg
Magnesium amino acid chelate 125mg
Magnesium oxide-heavy 42.96mg
Vitamin D3 200IU"

Cheers
Barry

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wimsey1 CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 2457 MA Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #13 - Dec 21^st, 2010 at 1:52pm Any thoughts on whether fish oil or D3 would/could be beneficial for migraines? For my wife. And just for grins, I will say I have had good luck with high units of B6. When I stopped taking the melatonin/B6 combo, they came right back. Anyone else using B6? Color me curious. lance
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eilif

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #14 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 3:43am

Hi

Nice to see others CH have success with vitamin-D3. I have been pain free for 3 years after taking vitamin-D. But vitamin-D has some co-factors which are important to take together with the vitamin. The formula is:

5000-10.000 IU Vitamin-D3:Vitamin D is the "miracle nutrient" that activates your immune system

500 mg Magnesium Chloride Oil: The best way to get magnesium is via the skin. The absorption is 70% and only 10-20% when taking oral magnesium supplement. Act the same way as Verapamil. Is the natures own Calcium Channel Blocker with no side effects.
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45 µg Vitamin K2:
Vitamin K2 cleans calcium deposits from your arteries and deposits it in your bones.

3-9 mg Boron: To increase level of free testosterone.
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George CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Black-Billed Magpie Posts: 8126 Boise, Idaho USA Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #15 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 10:04am Hiya again, Niels. Best, George
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Potter CH.com Alumnus Offline Team MOOSE DROOL Stinky Stuff on a Hook Prostaff Posts: 3600 Blgs.Mt. Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #16 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 1:54pm Little feller is persistent. Potter
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Callico CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Author of "Stranded at Romson's Lodge Posts: 4916 Aurora IL Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #17 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 3:11pm He may have gotten a little bit of corroboration. Jerry
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eilif Ex Member	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #18 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 6:10pm I think you guys have eaten too much mushrooms lately. Try some vitamin-D3 instead. Best Eilif
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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #19 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 6:16pm What is that definition of insanity again? Trying the same thing over and over and always expecting a different result - yeah, that's it.
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Mike NZ CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Oxygen rocks! D3 too! Posts: 3785 Auckland, New Zealand Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #20 - Dec 29^th, 2010 at 7:00pm Brew wrote on Dec 29^th, 2010 at 6:16pm: Trying the same thing over and over and always expecting a different result - yeah, that's it. That is why quantum mechanics (physics) is so confusing as you'll probably get a different answer every time!
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Linda_Howell CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Do not feed the Moderators Posts: 11927 Santa Maria, Ca. Gender:	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #21 - Dec 30^th, 2010 at 12:19am Quote: I think you guys have eaten too much mushrooms lately. Try some vitamin-D3 instead. Time to give it a rest Neils.
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Batch

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #22 - Dec 30^th, 2010 at 3:23am

Hope all of you had a Very Merry Christmas... and here's to a wonderful and Happy New Year!

Lance, even though I'm still PF after 86 days... the jury is still out on the efficacy of the anti-inflammatory regimen of vitamin D3 and Omega 3 Fish Oil as a preventative for cluster headaches.

Having said that, there are so many similarities between the pathophysiology of CH and Migraine that it may help migraine sufferers as well. It's at least worth a try. I've got Joyce taking the vitamin D3. She's been on it since the end of November and so far has skipped her usual monthly migraine...

All you need to do is compare the side effects to see this regimen is much safer than taking verapamil as a preventative and sumatriptan succinate as an abortive.

Take care and Happy New Year.

V/R, Batch

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Batch

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Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #23 - Dec 30^th, 2010 at 5:10am

Barry,

Thanks for the update on your experience with calcium, magnesium and vitamin D3. This is starting to get interesting. There may be something about taking this regimen of minerals and vitamin D3 after all... I was beginning to think I'd out geezed the beast.

On a more serious note, I'm still PF and still on the regimen of Omega 3 Fish Oil and vitamin D3. Like you, I also eat fish a couple times a week.

In looking over what I've been doing differently that may be playing a role in the cessation of my cluster headaches, the two things that stand out are the vitamin D3 and a lot more physical activity.

My tired old bones tell me every night about all the work I've been doing. The other indication of increased physical activity is I haven't changed my eating habits yet I've still lost 20 lbs and 4 inches off my waist in the last two and a half months...

Take care and thanks for your insights.

V/R, Batch

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Erics.Parents CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 27	Re: 70 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #24 - Dec 31^st, 2010 at 8:37am I have Omega 3 - Salmon Oil is that the same. Also, on another thread someone said that Vit. D3 boost Testosterone levels.
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