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slacker032 CH.com Old Timer Offline Posts: 325 Los Angeles, CA Gender:	Demand valve/regulator recommendation? Jan 9^th, 2014 at 1:53pm What demand valve and regulator combo are you guys recommending these days and from which supplier?
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Batch

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Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation?
Reply #1 - Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:38am

The best regulator available is the Flotec InGage™ 0-60 liter/minute oxygen regulator with a single DIS fitting for a demand valve... The price is ~$170 plus tax and shipping.

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There are a lot of options as they build these regulators to order. The best all round configuration is shown above. This configuration has a CGA-540 fitting for the larger home oxygen cylinders M60 and up (M/H/K Sizes).

It has a knurled knob on the CGA-540 fitting so no 12" Crescent Wrench is needed... Hand tighten only...

The pressure gauge is internal to prevent breakage hence the Flotec model name "InGage"

I order the 0 to 60 flow rate with click style selector, a single barb fitting for the oxygen mask tubing and a single DIS fitting for the oxygen demand valve.

I bought a new aluminum M60 medical oxygen cylinder shown above as my "roadie" for $250 that I used for local travel and work... It holds enough oxygen for 10 to 12 aborts and is only a few pounds heavier than an E-size medical oxygen cylinder that at best holds enough oxygen for only 3 aborts.

I also picked up a CGA-540 to 540 high pressure transfiller pigtail to refill the M60 from a welder's O2 cylinder.
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You can order the InGage™ from Flotec at the following:

Flotec Oxygen Regulators
7625 West New York Street
Indianapolis, Indiana 46214-4911 USA
Telephone: (317) 273-6960
Facsimile: (317) 273-6979
Order Desk Telephone: (800) 401-1723
Order Desk Facsimile: (800) 515-9254
E-mail: info@floteco2.com

You can also call or email Ashly Warner directly at Ashley@floteco2.com. Tell her you're a cluster headache sufferer and that I sent you.

I don't get a kick back and that won't get you a better price... but it will give the folks at Flotec a sense of urgency in the overall order, build, and ship process... It usually takes 10 days with a confirmed order and credit card number.

Regarding an oxygen demand valve... If you buy the InGage™ 0-60 lpm regulator... you don't really need an oxygen demand valve... The Cluster O2 kit with 3-liter reservoir bag that DJ sells at the CH.com store tab at the left works great.

If you still want an oxygen demand valve, the very best is made in the UK by Carnét. You can see mine attached to an InGage regulator along with the cluster O2 kit. Both work much better if you breathe directly from the 22 mm nipple without a mask.

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You can also use the mouthpiece that comes with the demand valve.
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What makes the Carnét oxygen demand valve so exceptional is the flow rate and minimal inhalation effort to get it started. The Carnét oxygen demand valve also has the largest exhalation check valve of any oxygen demand valve so it supports respiration rates over 40 cycles/minute without blowing back in your face.

I evaluated demand valves from all the major OEMs in preparation for the demand valve study conducted by Dr. Todd Rozen and the Carnét was the hands down winner in every category.

The downside of this regulator is cost... $475 to $550 so it's a major healthcare investment that medical insurance companies will not likely cover.

It's sold through Linde Healthcare US/LifeGas at: US Healthcare Customer Care Center

By Phone: 1-866-LifeGas or 1-866-543-3427
By Fax: 1-800-296-2222
By Email: sales@lifegas.com

You'll need to fax or email them a copy of your Rx for oxygen therapy.

I purchased all of the above in 2007 before I developed the anti-inflammatory regimen with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 that has kept me pain free since October of 2010.

See the following link for details of this CH preventative regimen:

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I still keep my oxygen therapy kit handy for visiting CH'ers... or demos over Skype... but 99% of the time it sits in the closet along with the Carnét oxygen demand valve covered with a plastic bag to keep it clean and dust free.

If cost is a major consideration... become a welder... You can purchase a great welder's O2 regulator from Harbor Freight Tools or your local welding supply outlet. Prices start at $35.

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These regulators meter out oxygen at outlet pressure so there's no flow rate selector... It only takes a minute to figure out the regulated pressure that works best for you...

What you're looking for is a regulated pressure you can keep up with breathing at respiration rates that support hyperventilation and not have the reservoir bag fill too tight and waste oxygen.

The downside of the welder's O2 regulators is a lot more intervention on your part to adjust the pressure... but the price more than makes up for the additional labor.

You'll also need to invest in a welder's O2 cylinder... I purchased the M-size welder's O2 cylinder for $150... but refills are $35... You drop off the empty and pick up a fully charged cylinder. I'd recommend a cylinder hand cart if you get the M-size... They weigh a little over 70 lbs.

Hope this helps...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:42am by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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CHMatt CH.com Junior Offline Posts: 45 Chicago Gender:	Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation? Reply #2 - Jan 10^th, 2014 at 2:25pm I have the Carnét demand valve and am very happy with it. Much faster and more reliable abort times than I used to get via a traditional non-rebreather mask system.
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slacker032

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Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation?
Reply #3 - Jan 11^th, 2014 at 7:55pm

Thanks Batch. Just for clarification, are you saying the Carnet demand valve itself is $475-550 or is that that total for the Carnet plus the Flotec regulator?

Also, you said with that Flotec regulator, I wouldn't need a demand valve but wouldn't it save me from wasting oxygen or if I'm misinformed about how a demand valve works?

I've currently got one of those Harbor Freight regulators and my interest in a demand valve was partially because I was aiming for more oxygen efficiency.

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« Last Edit: Jan 11^th, 2014 at 7:56pm by slacker032 »

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Batch

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Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation?
Reply #4 - Jan 11^th, 2014 at 8:46pm

Slacker,

You need a regulator with a DISS fitting and a demand valve so you're looking at around $650 to $700 for the combo...

Regarding efficiency in oxygen consumption... I've developed a relatively new procedure and breathing technique that will work with a demand valve and equally well with a regulator capable of 15 liters/minute, a welder's O2 regulator and even an oxygen concentrator capable of 15 liters/minute...

It involves hyperventilating with room air then breathing high concentration oxygen. The ratio is roughly 3 to 1 room air to oxygen.

The breathing technique is called hyperventilating at forced tidal volume capacity. You start by forcibly exhaling room air as fast as possible until it feels like there's nothing left in your lungs to exhale... At that point you do an abdominal crunch like doing situps and you hold the squeeze until your exhaled breath makes a wheezing sound for 2 to 3 seconds.

This exhalation technique will squeeze out another half to full liter of exhaled breath. As that last tidal volume of exhaled breath is highest in CO2, you're blowing off CO2 much faster than normal...

As soon as you've squeezed out that last volume of exhaled breath, inhale room air rapidly and fully then repeat forced exhalation followed by the rapid inhalation and forced exhalation two more times.

At that point you inhale the 100% oxygen from a demand valve or Cluster O2 kit with 3-liter reservoir bag and hold it for 3 to 5 seconds then start the entire sequence again. 3 breaths of room air at forced vital capacity followed rapidly by one full inhalation of oxygen.

If you're using this procedure properly, you should experience the symptoms of paresthesia... a very slight tingling or prickling of the fingertips, lips, face or back of the neck. You also might experience a slight dizziness.

I suggest you stand while using this breathing technique and procedure to help ventilate the lungs more effectively. If you do get dizzy, lean against a wall. If you feel too dizzy, sit erect in a straight back chair and avoid hunching over your knees as this will restrict lung ventilation.

I've found this procedure and breathing technique is equally effective as the oxygen demand valve method of aborting cluster headaches.

The secret to hyperventilating with room air and oxygen lies in the fact that this process blows off CO2 faster than your body generates it through normal metabolism...

This in turn pushes your system into respiratory alkalosis... with an elevated arterial pH.

Blood hemoglobin has a higher affinity for oxygen as pH rises (the Bohr Effect), and this results in around an 11% increase in hemoglobin oxygenation so using this technique super oxygenates blood flow to the brain and in particular, the arteries and capillaries in and around the trigeminal ganglia triggering the rapid vasoconstriction that's needed to abort CH rapidly .

Adding the affect of a reduced arterial CO2 that results in additional vasoconstriction, using this procedure and breathing technique. This procedure and breathing technique results in very rapid aborts with either a demand valve or standard regulator with cluster O2 mask kit.

If you manage your oxygen flow rate properly, the above procedure will consume 75% less oxygen/abort.

Practice this procedure and breathing technique with room air and you should start feeling the symptoms of paresthesia after 3 to 4 cycles... Hope this helps...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Jan 11^th, 2014 at 11:35pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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slacker032 CH.com Old Timer Offline Posts: 325 Los Angeles, CA Gender:	Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation? Reply #5 - Jan 11^th, 2014 at 8:52pm Great info. Thanks again Batch.
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gaulstone

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Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation?
Reply #6 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 1:40am

For anyone wanting the latest info on that Flotec Regulator. I reached out to get a current quote to place an order.

Model: RR510-200T1
RH, 1.4", 3000 PSI Gauge @ 300 degrees
CGA 540 Hex Nut & Nipple Assembly (Oxygen)
One DISS-1240 Check Valve
No Body Options
Green Anodized Body
Large Diameter Knurled Knob
Window @ 0 & Hose Barb @ 180
No Flowmeter Options
Green Anodized Body
1-60 range (1^2^3^4^5^6^10^15^25^40^60) srw

Current price for one unit is: $224.55 - The price drops for multiple units.

Shipping is extra.
Payment by credit card is extra.

I tried sending an email to Ashley but it got sent back.
You should now just email: flotec@floteco2.com

If there is a better option out there these days let me know. Otherwise I'm going to place my order with them for the one above.

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Batch

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Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation?
Reply #7 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 8:27pm

Gaulstone,

The flotec 0-60 lpm InGage oxygen regulator is the pick of the litter... I've researched and tested regulators from all the OEMs in preparation for a study by Dr. Todd Rozen and flotec still comes out on top.

I've owned two over the last 10 years... sold one and the other is still working like a charm. The photo below shows it mounted on my "Roadie" M60.

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In fact, with one of these 0 -60 LPM flotec regulators, you don't really need the added expense of an oxygen demand valve.

Yes an oxygen demand valve is very convenient to use. but the flotec will perform just as well with enough flow rate to blow your shirt tail out.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Apr 19^th, 2017 at 8:34pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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Skyhawk5

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Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation?
Reply #8 - Apr 19^th, 2017 at 11:00pm

I case you still want a demand valve, I have one listed in the link below. Make sure you order a mask or mouthpiece too, you can use one from the cluster masks available at the CH.com store.Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Batch is right, the masks with a 3 litre bag work great. I vote for the demand . I also have Flotec regs, 60lpm and a DISS fitting.

Don

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« Last Edit: Apr 19^th, 2017 at 11:07pm by Skyhawk5 »

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Beast , I have O2 so I fear him not.

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gaulstone CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 8	Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation? Reply #9 - Apr 20^th, 2017 at 1:11am Thanks Batch and Don. I'm placing my order for the Flotec. I already use the cluster mask from the site. May consider the demand in the future.
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gaulstone

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Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation?
Reply #10 - May 13^th, 2017 at 2:56am

Received my Flotec. Tested it out. Works great. I only need the barb valve for now.

One question though - if you hook up to the DISS does air automatically stop flowing to the barb? I don't see any way to switch between the two. If I get an on demand I'm trying to figure out how air stops coming out of the barb. Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3708 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation? Reply #11 - May 14^th, 2017 at 1:52am Just set the flow rate to zero and oxygen will stop coming from the barb fitting...
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gaulstone CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 8	Re: Demand valve/regulator recommendation? Reply #12 - Jun 3^rd, 2017 at 11:24am Thank you Batch! Makes sense. PS- Just got my levels checked and have started up the D3 plan.
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