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Scorpion

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Ketogenic?
Oct 1^st, 2015 at 9:40am

Hi
I'm looking for anyone who is on a Keto style diet and gets CH while on the diet (not after messing it up).

Atkins, Paleo and the like are also types of ketogenic diets.

I've read a few things here about eating Paleo (which is a branch of a ketogenic diet). So far, I haven't found where someone is on a ketosis type diet and started a CH cycle. I have seen where they went off track and the headaches started.

I think it's interesting because ketogenic diets are used for epileptics to reduce the number of seizures they get.
- It's also considered an anti-inflammatory diet.

Thanks

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« Last Edit: Oct 1^st, 2015 at 1:09pm by Scorpion »

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Ketogenic? Reply #1 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 6:43pm There are a lot of different types of vitamins in the food we eat, excluding some processed foods. So, In the Paleo diet you could be lacking in some of these vitamins. Hoppy
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Scorpion

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Re: Ketogenic?
Reply #2 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 1:44am

Thank you for the reply

I'm not having any problems being in ketosis. I just realized that since I've been ketogenic I have not had any headaches (I'm past due). Right now I'm in a sort of ghost cycle that started when I fell off the wagon, but I'm back on. I haven't had any HA's or shadows, just a bit of the peripheral symptoms. Ketogenic diet is very healthy. That's why I'm doing it.

Ketogenic diet is the elimination of carbs:
70% fats,
25% protien,
5% carbs from vegetable sources.

I also strength train 4x a week, not only for the obvious, but it helps keep the headaches away as well... I also use exercise to abort them. I'm quite happy this way.
Also when my cycles came, I always fasted for at least 24 hours, longer if I could handle it, then keep my caloric intake way down. It shortens the cycle to about 3 weeks for me. I've read of people fasting for 3 days to abort the cycle. That's what I plan to do this time if I start getting the HA's again. I'm a bit better at fasting now from doing intermittent fasting with my weight training. (It raises your HGH a ton).

Anyway, thought I would ask...

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Ketogenic? Reply #3 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 2:54am Hi Scorpion, Looks like I read your post back to front I'm pleased to read that your diet and exercise are keeping the at bay. Cheers, Hoppy.
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Scorpion

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Re: Ketogenic?
Reply #4 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:36am

It's sometimes disheartening to see so many people popping pills, having surgeries, and doing who knows what to their body, and yet refuse to try things like exercise and/or a ketogenic diet. Sometimes the answer really is that simple.

I will read these horror stories, and I've been there myself. But never have I read where someone says they tried to do what I do and have these monsters out of control. Some say that exercise starts a headache, but I don't know what their intensity was, or how honest they are so Embarrassed

When I was at the end of my rope years ago, during a headache, I decided to run until I died. When I got to a point where I thought I couldn't run anymore, I pushed as hard as I could, thinking that this would give me a heart attack. Instead, the headache stopped and I felt on top of the world. That's how my cluster headache life changed into a positive thing. Not many people get to have something make them stay in shape and healthy. I have been doing variations of diet and exercise for many years now. I think around 8 years.

A ketogenic diet takes about a month to adapt. This is a period of time where your body and mind learn to use ketones as fuel. It is not easy to get started, but it's worth it.

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Re: Ketogenic?
Reply #5 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:13am

Hi Scorpion,

I can give you a response to your request.

Since about one year I am trying to use ketosis to reduce my CH symptoms. Longest time without any cheating was ~6 months. It does not work perfectly for me but it is a lot better than with the carb-metabolism and I think ketosis has other huge health benefits. No other diet has helped me and can compare to ketosis (well it is not just a diet, it is a switch in metabolism).

it helps me with:

it eliminates my daily small torturing CH pains nearly completely
it makes me more cigarette smoke resistant (that's my smaller CH trigger)
makes the full CH attacks partially more bearable
helps with my head so that I can often work again for 40h per week or more

no effect on:

my full CH attacks are scheduled by time (my main trigger, varies between few days and two weeks) - no positive effect on this
it does not remove the cigarette smoke trigger, all small CH pains and the full CH attacks

special mentions:

I noticed, that water fasting (is ketosis too) has a much bigger effect on my CHs (did it for 2 weeks and the 2 CHs I had during the fast lasted only 3 hours - that was awesome for me).
2 days ago for the first time (during ketosis) I got a painless CH attack for several hours (sadly the pain started again in the morning as usual). It was incredible and fascinating. I was very dizzy and slow and couldn't walk that well - I would describe it as being drunk (I am assuming, I never drink, was never drunk and no I only drank water the whole day).

my problems with ketosis:

over the course of 6 months I got severe chest and arm pain, my cholesterol was exploding. I had to stop for a few months
after leaving ketosis I developed intense painful and very problematic small lipomas (fatty tumors)
my uric acid levels exploded because of the meat heavy diet - I was an vegetarian before
other undefined sporadic pain all around the body
nearly all these pains/problems don't completely go away anymore even out of ketosis

As I have read, most people don't have the problems I have with ketosis. I guess I belong to a few very unlucky people. Maybe it is because my CH is a little bit besides the norm. Like I never have cycle breaks, some painkillers work (aspirin) - and yes I really got diagnosed with CH, ... .

So I wanted to say ketosis is very neat, I can recommend it (except for unlucky people like me) and I will try to keep it up because I feel much better in my head. Yes it is also seemingly killing me, therefore I have to see if I can make it work somehow.

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2016 at 9:43pm by subspace »

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Ketogenic? Reply #6 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 4:06pm Their are numerous triggers which effect different folk and second hand smoke is one of them, but the main culprits are alcohol and all processed foods, so staying away from these and having a healthy diet is the way to go. Hoppy
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Re: Ketogenic?
Reply #7 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 5:40pm

I don't say that everyone has second hand smoke triggers (I clearly have and am going crazy) but I often read that most CH patients (seemingly 80%) had something to do with smoking (smokers, family was smoking). Isn't that so?

Well as I mentioned I seriously never drank alcohol but yes consumed processed foods - like most people that don't have CH. So it can't be just that. Also for the last year and more I reduced processed foods more and more (most of it), but that alone is not really doing much. Or are you talking about to go raw and not even processing the food by oneself?

A "healthy diet" is very vague. Everybody talks about it and many don't know what it is. Some would say the food pyramid is showing a healthy diet. I for e.g. with my current knowledge would suggest to turn the food pyramid around and then call it more healthy than before. People would say that vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, fructarian, paelo, raw, ketosis, LCHF, HCLF and what not are healthy diets (and I doubt that some of these are healthy). Also some of them have very special benefits/effects like ketosis as I mentioned and can't be compared to just eating somehow healthy. Do you have anything special in mind?

Thx

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Ketogenic? Reply #8 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:23pm For me, alcohol and processed foods only triggered an attack when in a cycle, other times I'm fine. My idea of a healthy diet is! Everything in moderation. Hoppy
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dauber

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Re: Ketogenic?
Reply #9 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 4:43am

Hi space,
I'm sure you have a message in there somewhere, with all due respect your post is rambling and very long. Im probably with the majority of people who have read this when I say I stopped reading when I came to the part about dealing effectively with major attacks by taking aspirin.
If you haven't already please seek a headache specialist for a proper diagnosis and to rule out other dangerous conditions.
Then take the D3 regimen

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Re: Ketogenic?
Reply #10 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 8:26pm

Hi Dauber,

I see your point, you are right. The post is too long, rambling about a lot of stuff and probably nobody will read it (completely). I will cut most of it and keep it short, so that this thread won't become garbage and be ignored because of it.

Also I want to mention that I indeed was visiting a neurologist and was diagnosed with CH (intense pain at left eye and neck, can't lay down must be upright - especially horrible at night, pain for hours, pain ups and downs, want to pull my eye out or smash my head, time scheduled attacks, no cycle-breaks).

And I kid you not, aspirin reduces the pain for me. I know that's not usually the case for CH, but I am not here to talk about aspirin or vit D3 (I have an measured deficiency) as threatment for CH. I wanted to support the view that ketosis helps but in rare cases like mine can be dangerous.

Thx

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AussieBrian CH.com Hall of Famer Offline CH - It's all in your head! Posts: 3851 Cairns, Qld, Australia Gender:	Re: Ketogenic? Reply #11 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 9:33pm Hey, Space, a very few people do get some relief with aspirin, as discussed here recently, but you wouldn't call it common. Just be sure to protect your tummy as it can cause other problems. (I found out the hard way.) Easiest is just to discuss it with your pharmacist.
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Re: Ketogenic?
Reply #12 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 10:07pm

Hi AussieBrian,

thanks for the info! It makes me feel less crazy to know I am not alone with this

Yes, I am trying to be careful with it. I try to use it as little as possible, often fighting with myself to take it.

But I must say it is a relief that because of it I don't have to use some very heavy painkillers I got from my neurologist a few years back. Those things felt like hitting my chest and after a while even experienced needle like chest pains I never knew before. Needless to say, I stopped taking them and endured the pain until I found out about aspirin.

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jendi CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 5	Re: Ketogenic? Reply #13 - Jul 4^th, 2016 at 9:46am Hi Scorpion, I was happy to see your post. I have been trying the ketogenic diet--but ended up more Primal, and I think the 80-20 rule of Primal is where I end up having failures. I will get into ketosis to see if that helps.
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