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Blood thinner and CH (Read 7452 times)

Rumeke CH.com Veteran Offline Posts: 173 Westfield, NC Gender:	Blood thinner and CH Mar 15^th, 2016 at 9:31pm I have just started taking blood thinners (Xarelto) and am wondering if any one else on thinners has noticed a change in their CH?
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jon019 CH.com Alumnus Offline "Ya gotta believe!" Posts: 1656 USA Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #1 - Mar 15^th, 2016 at 9:36pm Rumeke wrote on Mar 15^th, 2016 at 9:31pm: I have just started taking blood thinners (Xarelto) and am wondering if any one else on thinners has noticed a change in their CH? Nope...nada....
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AussieBrian CH.com Hall of Famer Offline CH - It's all in your head! Posts: 3851 Cairns, Qld, Australia Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #2 - Mar 15^th, 2016 at 10:05pm It's an interesting thought. Some people get a bit of help from aspirin so could it be the blood-thinning effect as much as the analgesia?
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Rumeke CH.com Veteran Offline Posts: 173 Westfield, NC Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #3 - Mar 16^th, 2016 at 8:30pm Since the blood isn't really "thinned" I guess it wouldn't have any effect. I don't think platelets have anything to do with O2 in the blood but I may be wrong. Guess it was just wishful thinking on my part!
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Marc

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TX
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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #4 - Mar 16^th, 2016 at 8:45pm

Rumeke wrote on Mar 15^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

I have just started taking blood thinners (Xarelto) and am wondering if any one else on thinners has noticed a change in their CH?

So, have you not seen a change in your CH's? Or are you still wondering if you may see a change? I would like to know how it goes!

AussieBrian wrote on Mar 15^th, 2016 at 10:05pm:

It's an interesting thought. Some people get a bit of help from aspirin so could it be the blood-thinning effect as much as the analgesia?

Interesting news to me! Generally, people end up doing more damage to their bodies by trying to help CH's with analgesics. I'm not saying you are wrong, you may be on to something. But I would sure like to hear more, since you are suggesting that aspirin actually helps some people with Cluster Headaches.

We obviously have different views, but as I see it:
Folks often come here in sheer agony, grasping at straws for relief. Some will see advice given here, as valid - because we know their pain. But, we have seen sooooo many reports of serious organ damage from analgesics. And virtually zero reports of abortive or preventative action.

Always willing to learn!
Marc

« Last Edit: Mar 16^th, 2016 at 8:46pm by Marc »

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pattik

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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #5 - Mar 16^th, 2016 at 9:59pm

I remember this subject coming up here years ago. Someone who also got migraine was discussing blood thinners helping. I haven't seen anything discussed regarding CH though. It has to do with a heart defect and migraine, and the connection is currently being researched. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #6 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 7:21am Quote: Generally, people end up doing more damage to their bodies by trying to help CH's with analgesics 3 assprin every 3 hours = duodenal ulcer. Last time I tried that! BTW - the asprin didn't stop the ch but I kept taking it just in case.
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CDog CH.com Veteran Offline Posts: 163 Rockies Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #7 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 8:16pm I was taking 12-16 aspirin a day when this first started. Never bothered the stomach and didn't help the head...
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Marc CH.com Old Timer Offline Posts: 429 TX Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #8 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 8:46pm And that's why some of us react to people suggesting that they may get some help from certain remedies.............. But, heck if it helps someone with Cluster Headaches - the I have no right to tell them that it doesn't work. Accurate diagnosis is important!
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AussieBrian

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CH - It's all in your
head!

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Cairns, Qld, Australia
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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #9 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 3:46am

I agree with you completely, Marc, which is why I'm bothered about posts such as:

"Hey, aspirin works for me - so help me spread the word or I will call you names and tell you that you are evil because all cures need to be discussed here."

That sort of thing really is likely to frighten a newby but I still reckon every means of attacking this beast is worthy of adult discussion, and certainly there are those who do get some relief using aspirin, as recent posts show.

This thread is simply about blood-thinners and CH and I'm the one who asked if aspirin might be helping in more ways than one.

Where someone posts a totally crackpot idea which may be dangerous then it's up to us to offer honest advice on a better path, while some wild thoughts may even be worth a little more consideration.

Surely that's why many of us are here.

« Last Edit: Mar 18^th, 2016 at 4:03am by AussieBrian »

My name is Brian. I'm a ClusterHead and I'm here to help. Email me anytime at briandinkum@yahoo.com

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shortstraw

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02 blows - thankfully

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Perth Western Australia
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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #10 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 4:37am

When I first started getting what I would eventually learn to be CH's, I would take 2 Panadiene Forte and a Mersyndel. Sure enough 1/2 hour to 45 minutes later it would stop so I thought it was the meds working. It wasn't until I found this site that I learnt that I couldn't have been more wrong and it was just a coincidence. Unfortunately it lead to a codeine dependence that was not much fun to break !
Knowledge is power.

With regards to the blood thinners, does fish oil have blood thinning qualities. I ask this because my wife recently had to have an operation and the surgeons advised not taking that component of the D3 regime as it encouraged bleeding.

There are things worse than clusters .... just

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BobG CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 6422 St. George, UT Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #11 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 4:56am Short straw, what your wife was told, my doctor has told me the same thing for the same reason.
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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #12 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 5:49am Short straw, That is a really interesting question. I would like to hear others' experiences on whether they have been advised not to take fish oil following surgery. Thanks, Peter.
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BobG CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 6422 St. George, UT Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #13 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 6:05am Peter...I had to have skin cancer spots cut from the side of my nose. The doctor said stop the fish oil 3 days before the cutting until 3 days after.
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CDog

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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #14 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 12:06pm

Marc wrote on Mar 17^th, 2016 at 8:46pm:

And that's why some of us react to people suggesting that they may get some help from certain remedies..............

But, heck if it helps someone with Cluster Headaches - the I have no right to tell them that it doesn't work.

Accurate diagnosis is important!

This was prior to a diagnosis, thought they were just regular headaches because they weren't that strong to start with...

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Batch

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Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must

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Bremerton, WA
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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #15 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 5:49pm

Hey Shortstraw,

The bit about vitamin D3 and Omega-3 fish oil causing bleeds during surgery is an old wives tale... Unfortunately, it's hard to argue with someone when they have a knife in their hand and they intend to cut you open...

The following links should put this myth to bed...

The Effect of Fish Oil on Hemostasis and Coagulations During Cardiac Surgery
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation improves surgical recovery
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

Supplements and surgery: what you need to know (part one)
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

If anything, you need more vitamin D3 prior to surgery...

Plasma 25-Hydroxy-Cholecalciferol (Vitamin D)
is Depressed by Inflammation
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

Hope this helps...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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shortstraw CH.com Junior Offline 02 blows - thankfully Posts: 78 Perth Western Australia Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #16 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 6:30pm Thanks Batch, I knew you would chime with the science for a definitive answer. Incidentally she didn't stop taking any of the other components of the regime (despite some raised eyebrows but no objections at the hospital) and showed a very impressive recovery from surgery.
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jon019

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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #17 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 6:48pm

Batch wrote on Mar 18^th, 2016 at 5:49pm:

I know nothing about these supplements and bleeding...but a very wise surgeon advised me...upon giving me a dire diagnosis....BEWARE surgeons...we think we can fix everything by cutting.....you are well advised to consider surgery a last resort....by a person you can trust.................

Best

Jon

The LARGE print giveth....and the small print taketh away. Tom Waits

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shortstraw

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02 blows - thankfully

Posts: 78
Perth Western Australia
Gender: male

Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #18 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 9:52pm

All points taken

Unfortunately it was one of those situations where the surgery was absolutely necessary but was ultimately unsuccessful as the problem "re-emerged".

I don't want to get into surgeon bashing as at the very least, they have extended my wife's life but I suppose the big warning sign was that we had to sign a disclaimer (which I'm sure are very common ?) that should there be issues with the surgery or if it was unsuccessful, we wouldn't sue the hospital.

We later found out from a nurse that neurosurgeons are amongst the most litigated against of all surgeons at that hospital.

Food for thought

PS - sorry Rumeke for highjacking the thread !

There are things worse than clusters .... just

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Rumeke

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Westfield, NC
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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #19 - Mar 18^th, 2016 at 11:30pm

When my vascular surgeon put me on blood thinners for a DVT I specifically asked him about the fish oil that was on my list of meds. He laughed and said keep taking them, they're not going to make your blood any thinner.

When my hubby had knee surgery they told him to stop fish oil a week before but his hematologist contacted the surgeon and told him there was no need to stop and the surgeon changed his mind.

Like Batch said..an old wives tale that has become fact among too many doctors.

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Peter510 CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give out... But don't give in. Posts: 966 Wexford. Ireland Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #20 - Mar 19^th, 2016 at 5:25am Thanks folks, I'm reassured. My Dad (84) is due for some surgery shortly and I am getting him started on the D3 Regimen in advance of that, but , of course, a doubt about the Fish Oil crept in. Thanks again all, Peter.
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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #21 - Mar 19^th, 2016 at 7:14am When I had an angiogram done, I asked the nurse if I should stop taking the baby asprin I take each night. She said, no, keep taking it, the Doctors like that.
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Marc

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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #22 - Mar 19^th, 2016 at 10:06pm

Bob P wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 7:14am:

When I had an angiogram done, I asked the nurse if I should stop taking the baby asprin I take each night. She said, no, keep taking it, the Doctors like that.

I do not remember that...seems like something that I would remember, if you talked about it.

Hopefully it was an exploratory exercise that turned up nothing nefarious, and symptoms were simply left bundle branch block!

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Bob P

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Shut up Bob!

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Re: Blood thinner and CH
Reply #23 - Mar 20^th, 2016 at 8:12am

Geez you have a good memory! Angiogram showed good blood flow and what they were seeing on the other tests was chalked up to the left bundle branch block.
The new one is senile calcific aortic stenosis. My aortic valve is starting to calcify. I guess at 65 y/o I
m about due for a valve job. I told Sarah, you know you're getting old when you illness starts with the word senile.

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!"

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Marc CH.com Old Timer Offline Posts: 429 TX Gender:	Re: Blood thinner and CH Reply #24 - Mar 26^th, 2016 at 9:00pm Well, the "senile" part is to be expected given your advanced years On the other hand, calcification of an aortic valve sounds almost unfriendly. Valve job indeed.... Is there a lifetime warranty? Is it prorated? Hoping all is well with you, Sarah and the girls!
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