Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3 (Read 3915 times)
RickJim
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


Giving up is not an option.


Posts: 28
Vancouver, British Columbia
Gender: male
Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Jul 3rd, 2016 at 4:20pm
 
Hello everyone –

I am in my second cycle this year. 

Batch’s Vitamin D3 regimen successfully stopped my first cycle when I was near 90 ng/mL of 25(OH)D serum concentration. Then due to unrelated tummy issues I had to stop cold turkey the regimen.

On June 4th, the beast came back in a second cycle, and tests showed that I was near 40 ng/mL, and so I restarted the Batch Vitamin D3 regimen reloading at 50,000 IU/day.  A later test on June 12 showed that I was at 65 ng/mL. According to my calculations in one week I was absorbing 70% of the vitamin D3 that I was taking, which is consistent to the levels of absorption during my first cycle.

At this point, my neurologist insisted that I started taking verapamil. He insisted that Vitamin D3 regimen was “soft science” and that my first cycle had ended not because of vitamin D3, but because it was just time for it to end.  Then I panicked and started on 240 mg/day of verapamil, but continued loading 50,000 UI of Vitamin D3.

Two weeks later, on June 25th, I had another vitamin D3 test. I was baffled to learn that my serum concentration was still 68 ng/mL, almost the same level than 2 weeks before! The only thing that had changed was verapamil and that I stopped taking calcium. Nothing else changed! According to my calculations I had been absorbing only 1% of the vitamin D3 that I have been taking! Before verapamil, it was 70% absorption rate.

Now, I have seen notes from Batch that mentioned that calcium from the regimen could interfere with verapamil effectiveness.

Batch advises to separate 8-12 hours the doses of verapamil and the regimen. However, I couldn’t do that as verapamil must be taken 3 times per day to ensure 24hrs pain free. Then I just decided not to take calcium, and take the rest of the regimen together with verapamil.

Nonetheless, the question here is not calcium blocking verapamil effectiveness, but verapamil blocking the absorption of vitamin D3 or the creation of 25(OH)D serum. I researched but found little evidence.

Has anyone of you encounter calcium channel blockers as verapamil obstructing the gastrointestinal absorption of vitamin D3 or the process to convert it into 25(OH)D serum?

At this point I decided to taper verapamil and get rid of if from my system and reload to 90 ng/mL of 25(OH)D again. So I will keep you informed.

I asked Batch but he was not aware of any interaction, but if anyone has experienced verapamil or any other calcium channel blocker affecting the regimen I really want to know.

Thanks,
Rick

Back to top
  

Thanks

Rick
https://www.facebook.com/rjimenezt  
IP Logged
 
Peter510
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Don't give out... But
don't give in.


Posts: 966
Wexford. Ireland
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #1 - Jul 3rd, 2016 at 6:21pm
 
Rick,

I can't answer your question directly, but when I first discussed the D3 regimen with my Doctor he said that under no circumstances would he put me on Verapamil and the D3 regimen at the same time. The reason he gave was Calcium but he didn't explain the interaction.

My theory on this would be that the D3 needs calcium to convert to D Serum, 25 OH (D) and Verapamil interferes with that conversion. Thus your blood results, which are not measuring D3, but it's converted state, D Serum, are showing no increase.

Somebody correct me if I've got it wrong.....I'm no scientist.

Anyway, if it's any consolation, I started the D3 and never had to use Verapamil.

Keep us posted,

Peter.

Back to top
  

You don't stop laughing because you grow old....You grow old because you stop laughing.
 
IP Logged
 
RickJim
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


Giving up is not an option.


Posts: 28
Vancouver, British Columbia
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #2 - Jul 4th, 2016 at 1:31am
 
Thanks Peter - yes that is what I suspect as well.

I had stopped taking calcium supplements, so I supposed that the process to produce 25(OH)D serum would take calcium from other food sources or from bones (yikes!). However, my calcium levels were unchanged in my last test.

Verapamil is a calcium channel blocker, and so I am not an expert on this topic either, but I suppose those calcium channels need to be opened for the 25(OH)D serum to be produced.
Back to top
  

Thanks

Rick
https://www.facebook.com/rjimenezt  
IP Logged
 
RickJim
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


Giving up is not an option.


Posts: 28
Vancouver, British Columbia
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #3 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 1:51am
 
As I suspected: as soon as I stopped verapamil, my vitamin D3 levels started increasing again. I do not know why verapamil was blocking the absorption of vitamin D3.

I did get some really bad CH probably from verapamil withdrawal, but I am glad to say that I am pain free again Smiley

I am at 145 ng/mL and I am pain free.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2016 at 1:52am by RickJim »  

Thanks

Rick
https://www.facebook.com/rjimenezt  
IP Logged
 
Peter510
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Don't give out... But
don't give in.


Posts: 966
Wexford. Ireland
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #4 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 2:04am
 
Rick,

Sweet news that you are pain free.

Now, stay on the regimen at maintenance dose of 10,000 iu/day forever more and that can be your near permanent state.

Let us know if there is any change, possibly due to mild infections or allergies, but otherwise, enjoy life.

Peter.
Back to top
  

You don't stop laughing because you grow old....You grow old because you stop laughing.
 
IP Logged
 
thierry
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 406
Galway, Ireland
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #5 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 8:58am
 
Hey Ricki and Peter,
this is a great thread, thank you.
Both your explanations are clear and make it easy to understand the transformation process of D3 into 25 (OH)D serum and the effect of calcium on the process.
I have never used verapamil myself so didn't have to go through that when i started Batch's D3 regimen.
I've learned something new today  Smiley Smiley Smiley
All the best
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2016 at 8:59am by thierry »  
 
IP Logged
 
RickJim
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


Giving up is not an option.


Posts: 28
Vancouver, British Columbia
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #6 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 11:12am
 
Peter, Thierry - at what levels you guys keep your 25 (OH)D serum levels to stay pain free?
Back to top
  

Thanks

Rick
https://www.facebook.com/rjimenezt  
IP Logged
 
thierry
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 406
Galway, Ireland
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #7 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 12:30pm
 
Hey Rick, I haven't got mine tested for a while but i've just made an appointment with doc for next monday to get it checked. I'll let you know when I have the resuts.
Last i got checked i think it was 216 nmol/ml, which is in the therapeutic zone. These measurements would be different to the U.S measurements Rick.
All the best
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Peter510
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Don't give out... But
don't give in.


Posts: 966
Wexford. Ireland
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #8 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 3:11pm
 
Rick,Thierry,

I try to keep mine at 200 nmol/L or thereabouts.  That's equivelant to 80 ng/ml.

Rick,

If you're running at 216 ng/ml then you're a bit too high. I wonder if, in your haste to reach a pain free state, you didn't overdo the loading doses a bit.

Two questions: what maintenance dose are you taking now? and do you take them with your main meal each day?

Peter.
Back to top
  

You don't stop laughing because you grow old....You grow old because you stop laughing.
 
IP Logged
 
RickJim
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


Giving up is not an option.


Posts: 28
Vancouver, British Columbia
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #9 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 6:12pm
 
I am not that high. I am at 145 ng/mL (360 nmol/ml)and I am doing a maintenance dose of 10000IU per day with my main meal.
Back to top
  

Thanks

Rick
https://www.facebook.com/rjimenezt  
IP Logged
 
Peter510
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Don't give out... But
don't give in.


Posts: 966
Wexford. Ireland
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #10 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 7:35pm
 
Rick,
Apologies, my mistake. I got confused with the 216 nmol/L that Thierry mentioned.

It might be best to send Batch a PM for advice, especially if you're experiencing gastric upset, as you mention in your other thread.

Peter.
Back to top
  

You don't stop laughing because you grow old....You grow old because you stop laughing.
 
IP Logged
 
RickJim
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


Giving up is not an option.


Posts: 28
Vancouver, British Columbia
Gender: male
Re: Verapamil blocking gastro absorption of Vitamin D3
Reply #11 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 10:22pm
 
Thanks Peter... yup, I have sent him a note already...
Back to top
  

Thanks

Rick
https://www.facebook.com/rjimenezt  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!