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Shadows are back... ? (Read 3889 times)
Georgewhufc
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Shadows are back... ?
Jun 9th, 2017 at 7:53am
 
Hi guys

Everyday this week I've noticed a regular (up to twice a day), but bearable, shadow like pain in and around my left eye and temple (my cluster side). This is my first pain of any type since my cycle ended back in Oct/Nov last year.

It's coming up to the same time of year as the start of my first ever cycle last year (July) so I'm dreading that it could be the beginning again. However, last night I was at an event and had a few beers and was absolutely fine.

Today I have another one and as I'm writing this, it's again bearable but I know it's there, and has been for the last 45 mins or so.

As a CH newbie I'm just a bit confused, I'm sure these shadows are related to my CH but alcohol isn't affecting me adversely at all. In all of your experiences, should I be preparing for a new cycle or am I making a big deal of nothing?!

I'm on Batch's D3 Regimen and I'm gonna carry on... fingers crossed!
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Batch
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #1 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 2:55pm
 
Hey George,

A "Shadow" is still a CH...  As you're already on the anti-inflammatory regimen, you've a few options in eliminating shadows... The first is to try a 50,000 IU/day loading dose for 3 to 5 days...  If that works to eliminate your shadows, increase your maintenance dose up from 10,000 IU/day by taking 15,000 IU/day on Saturday and Sunday and 10,000 IU/day Monday through Friday.

You can also start a 7 to 10 day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).  I've found that Children's Allergy Medicine Liquid Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) at 12.5 mg in the morning and 12.5 mg in the evening works just fine if the problem is an allergic reaction. 

If there's no joy after 10 days of the liquid Benadryl, discontinue and start a course of vitamin C at 1000 mg every two hours throughout the day.

If you haven't already done so, a 3 month course of Vitamin B 100 complex (1 tablet a day) is always helpful..

Please let us know the results...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Mike NZ
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #2 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 9:36pm
 
As Batch said, a shadow is still a CH, just at a lower level than a full blown CH. Just abort it like any other CH.

With the alcohol question, not everyone has alcohol as a trigger. So it is possible that it might not be for you.
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Georgewhufc
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #3 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 6:54am
 
Thanks guys - it is as I thought but yes the alcohol part baffled me.

No improvement over the weekend so I'm going to try one of Batch's mentioned methods.

I've looked at Benadryl here in the UK before and sadly it doesn't have Diphenhydramine HCL in our version... does anyone on there from the UK know any over the counter product that does contain it, with enough to be effective for us CHers?

Thanks all
George
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Batch
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #4 - Jun 12th, 2017 at 9:12am
 
Hey George,

Ask your local Chemist/Pharmacist for a first-generation antihistamine...  We need the drowsy type like Diphenhydramine as they pass through the blood brain barrier to block H1 histamine receptors on neurons throughout the brain...  Second- and Third-generation non-drowsy antihistamines cannot do this so are less effective for CHers.

I'd also pick up some vitamin B 100 complex tablets...

Take care and please keep us posted.  Solving problems like yours means less suffering for other CHers taking the anti-inflammatory regimen...

V/R, Batch
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Constantine
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #5 - Jun 20th, 2017 at 12:45pm
 
I'm getting PRP injections in my elbow and shoulder tomorrow morning (6/21) and the doctors don't want me taking anti-inflammatories beforehand. They're referring mostly to stuff like naproxen, but I decided to cease Batch's vitamins for a period of 8 days. I completely stopped (no tapering) on Saturday (6/17) and I am planning on resuming the regimen on Sunday (6/25).

Shadows have returned pretty quickly. I hope no headaches return in the meantime. I will be in a lot of pain from the injections for several weeks, so a cycle to boot would be devastating.

Anyway, I hope doing what I'm doing is okay. I guess I'll find out. Batch if you could chime in with your opinion on this, I'd be happy to read what you have to say. The shadows are obviously bumming me out, but I really, really want these PRP injections to work, so I'm doing everything I can to give the doctors the best possible blood to work with. The thing is, I NEED inflammation for at least 3 or 4 days to give the injections the best opportunity to heal my chronic injuries from sports.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Take care, guys. Stay strong, everyone.
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Batch
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #6 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 1:58pm
 
Hey Constantine,

I can see you're faced with an interesting (and painful) dilemma...  Tennis Elbow?

From personal experience, and data from several other chronic CHers, stopping the anti-inflammatory regimen within the first one to two months will result in a return of full blown CH in as little as 3 to 10 days.  Episodic CHers still in cycle will experience this same return of their CH.

It all depends on your present serum concentration of 25(OH)D and the therapeutic concentration needed to prevent your CH.  In other words, if your 25(OH)D serum concentration is 70 ng/mL and your minimum therapeutic serum concentration is 65 ng/mL... it's just a matter of a few days before your 25(OH)D serum concentration drops below 65 ng/mL and your CH returns.  If you've just started the anti-inflammatory regimen, your CH will return within 24 to 36 hours.

PRP can be effective in treating sports injuries like Tennis Elbow...  but it could take several months...  See: Treatment of Chronic Elbow Tendinosis With Buffered Platelet-Rich Plasma

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"At 6 months, the patients treated with platelet-rich plasma noted 81% improvement in their visual analog pain scores (P = .0001). At final follow-up (mean, 25.6 months; range, 12-38 months), the platelet-rich plasma patients reported 93% reduction in pain compared with before the treatment (P < .0001)."

Stopping NSAIDs in your case prior to PRP injections is likely done to prevent any bias in the results and not to ensure there's ample inflammation prior to the injections. In other words, I see no reason why you should stop taking the anti-inflammatory regimen. 

What is interesting here is the anti-inflammatory regimen can be even more effective than NSAIDs in reducing joint pain if the vitamin D3 dose is high enough.

It really doesn't matter if your elbow and shoulder pain is the result of a sports injury, the anti-inflammatory regimen can be very effective in reducing pain levels.  See the following link for more details:

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In the final analysis, as neither condition is life threatening and the real issue is quality of life..  you are your best advocate in deciding the best course of action.  You know the pain associated with your elbow and shoulder just as you know the pain of CH.  Accordingly, the choice of treatments is really up to you.  Moreover, I see no reason why you should be faced with an either or situation as both PRP and the anti-inflammatory regimen are compatible. 

The common denominator in both conditions is inflammation.  Accordingly, in my mind, the anti-inflammatory regimen with vitamin D3 is an obvious choice in treating both conditions.

There are a number of things to try that can stop the shadows...  The first is a 7 to 10 day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).  I've found that Children's Liquid Benadryl allergy medicine can be very effective in kick starting the anti-inflammatory regimen and in quelling shadows.  12.5 mg in the morning and another 12.5 mg in the evening can be very effective with only minimal drowsiness... 

Increasing the vitamin D3 dose is the second thing to try.  Doubling the Omega-3 fish oil dose is also helpful with shadows. Adding vitamin C at 1000 mg every two hours has helped several CHers with shadows.

Regarding the joint pain, increasing the boron dose to 3 or 6 mg/day can help. Increasing the magnesium dose and adding CoQ10 can also help.

From personal experience, I've found taking additional zinc, vitamin K2, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM [Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) a.k.a., DMSO] and Turmeric to be effective in reducing joint pain

Hope this helps...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2017 at 2:23pm by Batch »  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Constantine
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #7 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 6:15pm
 
Batch,

You deserve a medal for all you do for our community. Thank you so much for such an in-depth response to my question.

Yes I received three PRP injections yesterday: in the left supraspinatus, the left bursa, and the left elbow (for tennis elbow). They were extremely painful, and I'm in a great deal of pain while writing this. Full recovery should be eight to twelve weeks or so, but that's just speculation. I've had one of these injections before (in my triceps), and I was 100% in twelve weeks.

FWIW, two surgeons agree with you that the vitamin regimen should not interfere with the injections. I guess I'm just being overly cautious. And I really want these injuries to heal without having to go through another round of PRP treatments. I guess I will just see what happens as I've gone now six days off the vitamins and I'm still just experiencing shadows. I've come this far, so I might as well wait until Sunday to resume them. Hopefully this doesn't blow up in my face.

For further clarification, my nurse advised me to stop the vitamins for this eight day period, and I do know that NSAIDs can negatively affect the development of type one collagen fibers, which is what I need to start forming post-PRP from my various tendinopathies (in the elbow and shoulder). I know the vitamins do not act in the same way as, say, naproxen does, but I also do want maximum inflammation in these injections sites to encourage the most healing in my degenerative tendons. This is a gamble on my part.

I really appreciate you taking the time to assist me in this tricky situation. Your opinion is extremely valuable to me here, even if I'm going to gamble that a cycle will not start at some point in the next two days. Fingers crossed I'm doing the right thing here. At least so far I know that I can stop the vitamins for six days without a cycle kicking up again. I just need to make it two more.

I will be sure to update the community in a few weeks just for anecdote's sake.

Take care, Batch. And thank you again for the reply.
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Batch
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #8 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 9:05pm
 
Constantine,

You're my kind of guy...  One who takes a responsible and learned approach treating multiple medical conditions so I suspect you'll achieve the desired results...  and if they don't play out as expected... you already know what to do...  Good on you...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2017 at 4:49pm by Batch »  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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UKJoeK
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Re: Shadows are back... ?
Reply #9 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 3:27pm
 
Hi George,

Sorry to be nosy but did your shadows turn into a proper bout?  I've suffered with far more bouts of shadows than bouts of CH attacks and am currently trying the D3 regime to see if I can abort this current one.  I'm interested to hear how you got on.

I'm also a long-suffering Hammers fan if that's what your username alludes to!

Joe
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