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Topic: Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input (Read 1513 times) |
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echo
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input
« on: Jan 15th, 2003, 6:06pm » |
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I for one think the gov overstepped his authority.
I'm just waiting to read of a class action suit to be filed by the families of the victims. At a minimum they (families) need to take him out back and beat the crap out of him.
Would not be surprised to read this in the "That's Outrageous' portion of the readers digest.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 15th, 2003, 6:10pm by echo » |
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suzy617
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input
« Reply #1 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 6:29pm » |
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Yep, if I were family of a victim, I'd have to hunt that guy down and kill him. Wouldnt be too big a deal cause I'd probably be back on the street by night fall.
suzy
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Mark C
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input
« Reply #2 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 7:13pm » |
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What a convulated mess....at first glance it appears the Gov. has lost his mind....has he? I went and did some research as suggested to try and understand how this happened. According to Ryan the IL system is broken and needs "fixed". Says he "many innocent folk have been wrongly accused". What does IL say.....
http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~critcrim/wrong/illmurder.html
According to this there are many folks in IL wrongly on death row. Now supposedly Ryans logic is it is better to let all murderers go than to wrongly execute one man. Is this true! I doubt it. As I understand they are not free therir sentence has been reduced to life. What a consellation for the victims familys.
It looks like there is much more to this story also, it appears there is a reason Ryan is a one term Gov...
His administration is raft with corruption...
http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~critcrim/wrong/illmurder.html
However, all is not lost, it looks someone with some power is trying to do something....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-2321694,00.html
I would hate to be a victims family member. I would also hate to execute an innocent man. I would hate most to cause other deaths because guilty murderers are set free, or now have a chance to be freed to kill again. Illinois residents get your guns. I believe Illinois needs to do something about a state charter that would allow any one man to overturn jury rendered verdicts with the stroke of a pen. This could be fixed without causing so much turmoil. Ryan, being a one term Gov, has no chance of ever finding justice with such a ruling. What a horrible thing to happen. My heart goes out to the victims familys.
Mark
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rumplestiltskin
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 8:02pm » |
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jonny
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #4 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 8:06pm » |
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You kill
on purpose
you die
Love
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Charlie
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #5 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 8:33pm » |
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Anti death penalty.
Simple main reasons: One can make a mistake, It's antique, and killing people to get elected, is as bad as it gets and makes me sick.
Others are that the rest of the civilized world rightly thinks we're not because of this. We are in some very iffy company. Slamming someone in a cell for the rest of their life, is greater punishment. And in many instances, it costs nearly as much to go though years of court battles to kill someone as it does to keep them alive.
Charlie
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Jabeen
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #6 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 8:52pm » |
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I believe in the death penalty when it is beyond any doubt-not just reasonalble doubt- i.e. those sniper idiots. I think it is terrible to be wrongfully executed and now with DNA evidence and scientific advances they can be more certain of guilt. Life imprisonment is also wrong if someone is innocent, but better than being killed. If the guilty people in IL can be proven 100% guilty thru DNA or whatever-then they should not have their sentences commuted. In light of all the recent cases being overturned I would want to be very sure before I actually executed anyone.
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Georgia
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #7 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 9:13pm » |
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Have you ever been somewhere like the store or the fair and seen little kids arguing and hitting each other? And then the mother steps in and HITS them while yelling, "DON'T HIT"? That's got to be my favorite scenario of completely blatant hypocrisy and defiance of logic, well, after the scenario of the death penalty, that is.
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jonny
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #8 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 9:18pm » |
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Andrea Yates
Nuff said.
...........................jonny
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Roxy
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #9 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 9:36pm » |
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I'm from Texas. (almost 'nuff said)
Our little security signs in the windows of our homes read:
(I've actually had to write quite a few papers on the pros and cons of the death penalty during my illustrious infamous career)
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #10 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 9:39pm » |
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I am against the death penalty. However, I am more against having one person being alowed to have the power to circumvent the court system by comutting sentences and letting people off. We have judges and jurys and I don't think anyone has the right to overstep their judgement of guilty or not guilty and the punishment phase of the trial. This is why we have appeals in process to clear names.
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cootie
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #11 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 9:58pm » |
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Around here the moto is...Don't mind the dog....beware of owner ! We had a neighbor girl killed this fall leaveing our fair by someone she knew......they only found parts of her body.....the only reason the guy confessed to where the rest of her was is if he was not put to death.....far as I am consern'd...he won !!!! That's not fair....he did it.....we all know he did it......and he confessed.......he's raped before just got out of prison....I'd hate to think this cold blooded killer could walk the streets agin !!!!! But...me thinks it could happen now !!!! And it pisses me off !! Pam 
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Jarvis
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #12 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 10:24pm » |
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Uh-Oh here I go................................The key........."Beyond a reasonable doubt"........... There seems to be sufficient and reasonable doubt in at least the case of Hobley... If he were killed than who is the killer he or us. .. I was once arrested and charged wrongfully. I feared for my freedom not even knowing the slightest facts of the issues being charged on me. 3 days I was in a jail cell and denied bail. I was identified by a witness in a line up... I could not verify an alibi because I was alone at the time and travelling. After those3 days the true suspect was caught in another crime and confessed. They came and opened my cell, said you can go and didnt even apologize.... From that day on I swore that never again would I condemn another person without absolutely and totally all the facts in my hands......On that note I respect the govs choices at least in the case of Hobley. Because there was reasonable doubt...... I personally find our judicial system to be a huge disgrace to all humanity... Why is it that the guy who steals 20 dollars from the till to feed his hungry children is sentenced to 10-20 years in a cell and his family put on welfare. And why is it that the guy who steals 266 million dollars from investors pockets is only called a poor manager. Then given a golden parachute of another 20 mill. to go away to live in the lap of luxury the rest of his days. While he has destroyed 100s of families and lives with his outstanding theft and willfull destruction of others lives........I say open the courts records on death row and review all the doubts apply DNA testing and maybe 30% can be set free....All over this country this is happening and I think I heard some number in the hundreds of people that were indeed set free due to DNA proving that there was no way they could have committed the crimes they were accused, tried and condemned for. I too believe this is a very serious matter. I get mad as hell like K.O.P. only different to the fact that one idiot can condemn a person to death without first considering and often not allowing absolutely all the facts.
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Woobie
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #13 on: Jan 15th, 2003, 10:40pm » |
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I live in Illinois, and I have heard SOOO much about this.. it makes me sick. I do have to say tho.. that a lot of politicians grant clemensy before they leave office.. Slick Willy Clinton included!
BUT Ryan is corrupt in, out, sideways, and upside down, no matter how you look at him.. he's dirty!
He overstepped his authority... but he only did what the law told him he could do.
The laws need to be changed! Until that happens, this shit is going to happen!
There was ONE guy proven to be innocent thru DNA evidence... and HE should have been set free.. but the others.???????????
Oh well, that's my 2 cents..
Tina 
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Charlie
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #14 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 7:27am » |
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Some countries that have the death penalty:
Afghanistan
Algeria
Bangladesh
Chad
China
Cuba
Egypt
Guatemala
Iran
Iraq
Korea, North
Korea, South
Laos
Libya
Mongolia
Myanmar (Used to be Burma)
Pakistan
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
Syria
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
Vietnam
Yemen
No western countries have the death penalty other than the United States. Japan India both have forms of it as well. What company we are in.
Without the death penalty, a someone can be sentenced to life in prison and be released if proven not guilty. With the death penalty, no such luck.
My reason for opposition is that there is no redress of greivance. That's enough for me.
Charlie
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| « Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2003, 7:30am by Charlie » |
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #15 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 8:32am » |
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I can't speak on the specific subject with any knowledge.
Death penalty? How do rationalize killing someone for killing someone? On the other hand, if someone were to harm one of my children they had better hope the law finds them before I do. Hypocritical? Yup, it always is when it's not you.
Cat
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JohnM
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #16 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 9:41am » |
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I'm with Jonny on this one
You kill
on purpose
you die
Pity we don't have the death sentence over here. It should be like like the Bomb - the ultimate deterent. I know sometimes an innocent gets executed, but how many innocents have to die because murderers are not totally shit scared of death penalty. I reckon the trouble with the US system as I see it is the jury system that allows the opinions of the jury to decide. For death penalty there must be absolute proof of the murderer, then poof quick and fast not wait on death row for 20 years vacilating. Any sort of doubt - lock them up until proved one way or the other.
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The mad viking
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #17 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 9:48am » |
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We do not have death-penalty here in Norway.
But i have to say that in some cases i wish that we had that
Thats for sure.
The US can learn from China in this matter.trial and sentence within 5 minutes after and not waith 15-20 years to execute courtorders
But thats just me and my way of thinking
Svenn
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| « Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2003, 9:52am by The mad viking » |
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Roxy
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #18 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 10:01am » |
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Yes, the US judicial system may be flawed. There are injustices, people fall through the cracks, but like all systems, it is based on human frailty. But, through comparative studies, there is not a better system out there...... yet. In any country. We have more due process than any other group of citizens. When the Supreme Ct. ruled the death penalty unconstitutional in 1972 under, the eighth amendment, the way the opinion was written, it said the death penalty was unconstitutional under certain statutes.
It only took Florida 5 months to rewrite their statutes, followed by 34 more states. In 1976, it was ruled unconstitutional again, across the board. Then Texas, Georgia, and Florida added mitigating circumstances, won their case the same year. Lo and behold, the death penalty was back, at least in those three states. Once again, 35 more state followed quickly.
You can go round and round on this one. It seems to me, in the end, it all boils down to....we, the people......
We elect the state politicians who enact these laws, we elect the Presidents who appoint the Justices. One man, one vote. The last presidential election showed us just how much our one vote can count. But, I think we are lucky....we live in a country where our vote does count, and we can make a difference.
Please excuse the rant....one of my teaching fields is criminal justice.....sometimes, ya know.....I just ramble !!!!!
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SFChris
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #19 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 2:16pm » |
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I think it's important to remember that the Governor didn't "let them off", but commuted their sentences to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole...
I would like this to be a black and white issue for me, but it's not. I disagree with the death penalty - period. BUT, if it were my family or loved ones who were murdered I think that I would feel differently.... 
Love,
Chris
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Slammy
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #20 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 3:26pm » |
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What the hell, Slammy will jump in on this one.
Personally, I don't think they use the Death Penalty enough. They need to expand on it to include child molesters and rapists... but that's just me.. ;D
Why spend all of our hard earn money keeping them incarcerated for their entire life, feeding and housing them.
That's not the problem. The problem is the judicial system. With all the legal maneuvering that is done, you end up with innocent people guilty and guilty people let off scot free! It just zooms over the heads of the common juror.
What they need is professional jurys made up of lawyers who understand the legalbabble bullshit and can separate the wheat from the chaff.... lol! did I say that right! ;D
Slammy 
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #21 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 3:52pm » |
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I read something in a good book. "An Eye for an Eye"....
I firmly believe in that.
Slammy's right though - the problem lies in the judicial system - in both our countries. Innocent people ARE doing time (and in some cases, losing their lives) for crimes they didn't commit. I doubt that's something that will change in our lifetimes, however.
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jonny
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #22 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 3:55pm » |
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Ok, last time on this one for me.
Your elderly mother is in a store and two guys walk in to rob it, being scared your Mom starts crying, one guy smashes her in the head with the butt of a shotgun and she falls to the floor. Now they notice shes wearing a diamond and cut her finger off to get it and then shoot her in the head and kill her, owner of the store comes running with his own shotgun and they run out, just to meet the cops on the sidewalk and be caught.
Now what say YOU!!!!!
Do they die?
....................jonny
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ShariRae
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #23 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 4:28pm » |
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jonny,
Yer f*ckin right they do!
my 2 cents!
Shari
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Linda_Howell
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Re: Way Off CH Subject, Need Your Input Please
« Reply #24 on: Jan 16th, 2003, 5:10pm » |
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MY mother. My child.....yes! but I'd like to kill them myself. Not wait an eternity for the state to do it. Why does a lethal shot cost more than keeping them in jail for the rest of their lives?
and where in the hell does that guy get his facts. He said and I quote(I watched the Oprah show also)
" the mistake factor is 60%" meaning what?
60% of everyone in jail is innocent? Oh, I think not.
I agree with that one guy on the street who they interviewed......" There is no justice anymore"
I too, feel for those families when they found out that the person who killed their loved one, was being released into the General population, so he could go on to have all the perks of "CLUB FED"
Linda Howell
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