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Topic: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR! (Read 5898 times) |
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Jonny
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #25 on: May 7th, 2008, 6:59pm » |
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George Carlin's
Solution to Save Gasoline
Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use.....
The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants!
That would be 11 million less people using our gas. The price of gas would come down.....
Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the Border...
When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq .
Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military....
Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it....
After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country.....
He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot.....
This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves......
If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo.....
Problem solved.....
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Jonny
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #27 on: May 7th, 2008, 7:57pm » |
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yl3F7-XgX9w&feature=related
According to the letter, "OCS lease sale 193 is estimated to contain 15 billion barrels of oil and 77 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, for a combined total of 27.8 billion barrels of oil equivalent. ANWR is estimated to hold another 10.4 billion barrels of oil, for a total of 38.2 billion barrels of oil.
"This would almost double the total United States proven reserves of oil," it states. "Lease Sale 193 and ANWR represent nearly $3 trillion to the U.S. economy, if we choose to develop them."
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200801/PO L20080124b.html
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| « Last Edit: May 7th, 2008, 8:19pm by Jonny » |
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jimmers
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #28 on: May 7th, 2008, 9:22pm » |
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Bottom line:
We can bitch all we want, NOTHING WILL GET DONE!!!!!!!!!!
Thats politics baby!!!!!!!!
Politics+Special interests=Your fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jimmers 
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Linda_Howell
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #29 on: May 7th, 2008, 9:44pm » |
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Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line:
We can bitch all we want, NOTHING WILL GET DONE!!!!!!!!!!
Thats politics baby!!!!!!!!
Politics+Special interests=Your fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jimmers |
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Jimmers, we just may have been twins seperated at birth. I couldn't agree more.
Let's talk until the cows come home. Just a waste of breath to me, which is why I never enter these threads. uh, except for this one. 
Politics+Special interests=Your fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YEP!!!!!!!!
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stevegeebe
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #30 on: May 7th, 2008, 10:17pm » |
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It is not just about fuel for your car.
It is about every facet of our modern lives.
Petroleum made all we have today possible. It was an incredable gift and we soon will realize that we squandered it.
Profound change will be thrust upon us humans and we are not going to like it.
These are the good old days.
Steve G
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Callico
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #31 on: May 7th, 2008, 11:21pm » |
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on May 7th, 2008, 5:26am, LeLimey wrote:| And oil companies are still posting record profits.. and governments are still putting shocking sales tax on it and it seems everyone is laughing all the way to the bank except those who have to choose.. Do I buy food to eat or do I put petrol in the car to go shopping? |
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Oil companies are posting record profits, but their return on investment (ROI) is smaller than most major corporations on any of the stock exchanges. The press likes to make it look like they are raping us, but they do not set pricing. That is done on the open market. The manipulation of the supply is not done by the oil companies, but by the non-free market countries of OPEC who control the amount that is pumped from the wells.
Jerry
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Kirk
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #32 on: May 7th, 2008, 11:42pm » |
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on May 6th, 2008, 11:03pm, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
We need to make oil as obsolete as the commodore 64. |
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WHAT! I still have games for the 64!
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #33 on: May 8th, 2008, 12:26am » |
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on May 7th, 2008, 11:21pm, Callico wrote:
Oil companies are posting record profits, but their return on investment (ROI) is smaller than most major corporations on any of the stock exchanges.
Jerry |
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Not to be argumentative, but this is unbelievably wrong. Net stockholder equity and retained earnings for exxon are much larger than even the largest companies, such as GE, Ford, Microsoft, Coke and McDonalds.
Exxon has made (after taxes) NET almost $40 Billion for each of the last 3 years. Fixed assets are $120 Billion. That doesnt seem like a bad ROI to me.
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pattik
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #34 on: May 8th, 2008, 8:10am » |
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on May 7th, 2008, 11:21pm, Callico wrote:
Oil companies are posting record profits, but their return on investment (ROI) is smaller than most major corporations on any of the stock exchanges. The press likes to make it look like they are raping us, but they do not set pricing. That is done on the open market. The manipulation of the supply is not done by the oil companies, but by the non-free market countries of OPEC who control the amount that is pumped from the wells.
Jerry |
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I think you're absolutely correct in this statement. I'm not surprised that this thread has turned into just another oil company bashing theme. Anyone who pays attention to stock investing knows that there are better returns to be had (on a long term basis) than the big oil companies. They do okay, but a couple of good years don't put them at the top of the heap in overall investor return. In fact, they've been taking loses in the refinery end of the business due to the cost of crude. The price of crude oil is set on the OPEN market--world wide--based on supply and demand--and it's priced in dollars. Unfortunately for the U.S., the buying ability of the dollar has sunk like a rock. Even individual investors speculate in the oil market as a hedge against the dollar, and some of the experts are calling for $200/barrel oil, depending on outside factors like political problems in other countries as well as hurricanes disrupting refinery production.
BTW, Jonny.... George Carlin might disagree with you about attributing him to the illegal immigrant solution 
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/carlingas.asp
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Callico
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #36 on: May 8th, 2008, 8:47am » |
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BMonee,
If you invest in a company based on their fixed assets alone I would like to have you invest in mine!!!
Operating costs, (CODB) for the oil companies is a FAR greater factor than is the fixed cost of their assets.
Chuck Shumer and his ilk in the Senate who accuse the oil companies and drag them before the Senate to "investigate" them for gouging are doing nothing but grandstanding. During the last "investigation" when they had the CEO's of the various companies in the Senate he used his time as a diatribe against them with not one question directed to them.
We have wells capped in various areas of the country because of governmental regulation. We have known fields in the continental US that have been placed off limits for years, not to mention off shore areas and Alaska. The Federal Government has not issued a permit for a new refinery in the United States since 1973. It takes about 10 yrs for a refinery to get the permits to expand an existing refinery. I heard one exec say in an interview a while back that it costs more for the permitting process than it costs to actually build the refinery!
the blame for our current oil situation does not rest on the oil companies. It rests in Washington DC.
Darlin, great article!
Jerry
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superhawk2300
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #37 on: May 8th, 2008, 9:18am » |
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Actually America has more oil in it's reserves now than anytime for the past decade.
And our refining capability is at an all time high as well.
And consumer consumption is down about 15% from the same time last year, due to people not driving as much and all those Prius's on the road.
If one removes the amount we are putting into the startic reserve we would have more oil available now than any other time in my life time.
By all accounts of a capitialistic society gas prices should be around 2 dollars a gallon.
Hows that grab ya?
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superhawk2300
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #38 on: May 8th, 2008, 9:24am » |
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And the oil companies DO set their own prices.
When a gas station is determining the price it is going to charge it does a survey of all the stations in the surrounding area and they call that in to the corporate office, which in turn tells that station what to set its prices at.
Ever see a Mobil station at one side of town have gas for a certain price and just across town the Mobil station has gas for a different price? (this appies to all stations, not just Mobil).
The cost of a gallon of gas has almost nothing to do with the cost of a barrel of oil.
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Paul98
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #39 on: May 8th, 2008, 9:27am » |
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The problem is that supply and demand are no longer the driving force setting the prices. True demand has been artificially replaced by speculation. The same thing is happening right now with grains.
-P.
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George_J
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #40 on: May 8th, 2008, 9:41am » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 9:27am, Paul98 wrote:The problem is that supply and demand are no longer the driving force setting the prices. True demand has been artificially replaced by speculation. The same thing is happening right now with grains.
-P.
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If that is indeed the case, (and I suspect that it is--this latest pile-on bears no relationship to increased demand or decreased supply) then we ought to see a massive correction in the market. Speculation will only inflate markets in the short term--this has been true for everything from tulips to internet IPO's to real estate. The bubble inevitably collapses.
Sooner or later, those speculating in grain and oil are going to be handed their heads. I only hope that the gummint doesn't bail them out afterwards--but I suppose that will depend on who they are.
Best,
George
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #41 on: May 8th, 2008, 9:56am » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 8:47am, Callico wrote:BMonee,
If you invest in a company based on their fixed assets alone I would like to have you invest in mine!!!
Operating costs, (CODB) for the oil companies is a FAR greater factor than is the fixed cost of their assets.
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Jerry, you were talking about the ROI. Operating costs are not part of this subject.
If we were to pretend COGS is part of the ROI, Exxon is still highly profitable.....much more than most companies. Take 2007 as an example, they had $404 billion in revenue and $233 billion in cost of revenue. Thats a gross profit of$172 billion on $233 billion in costs. Thats, what, a 75% gross profit margin?
You are saying a 75% gross profit margin is smaller than most?!?! Whats the gross profit margin on your company?
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Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half the population is stupider than that.
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Charlie
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #42 on: May 8th, 2008, 11:13am » |
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Defending oil companies. What next? Drug companies are great guys.
Exxon's NET profit this month is $1,385 per SECOND.
Charlie
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Kevin_M
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #43 on: May 8th, 2008, 12:13pm » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 11:13am, Charlie wrote:| Defending oil companies. What next? |
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If anyone likes the comments in defense of the oil companies by the Heritage Foundation and the Cato Institute that are made in the link Delta posted, then you would really love their paid defense the tobacco industry, too. They employ the same minded, paid "scientific researchers" and the same persons in places.
on May 8th, 2008, 8:30am, deltadarlin wrote:| http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2008/MediaMyth/Crude_Coverage/CrudeCompany.asp |
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Heritage Foundation
Heritage Foundation has received $490,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
Patrick J. Michaels
Policy Expert
Sallie Baliunas
Policy Experts
Robert C. Balling Jr.
Policy Expert
S. Fred Singer
Policy Expert
Thomas Gale Moore
Policy Expert
Cato Institute
Cato Institute has received $125,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.
Patrick J. Michaels
Senior Fellow, Environmental Studies
S. Fred Singer
Editorial Advisory Board
Robert C. Balling Jr.
Conference Speaker
Richard Lindzen
Contributing Writer
Andrei Illarionov
co-sponsor of conference
Thomas Gale Moore
Adjunct Scholar
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_change_sceptics
Sallie Louise Baliunas: received in 1997 the Petr Beckmann Award for her "devastating critique of the global warming hoax."
Robert C. Balling: has acknowledged that he had received $408,000 in research funding from the fossil fuel industry over the last decade. Contributors include ExxonMobil, the British Coal Corporation, Cyprus Minerals and OPEC.
He writes regularly for the Cato Institute
His writings find him regularly in the company of other prominent climate change scholars, including Sallie L. Baliunas, and S. Fred Singer of the Science and Environmental Policy Project.
(his views are employed by both Heritage and Cato)
Richard S. Lindzen: charged "oil and coal interests $2,500 a day for his consulting services; [and] his 1991 trip to testify before a Senate committee was paid for by Western Fuels and a speech he wrote, entitled 'Global Warming: the Origin and Nature of Alleged Scientific Consensus,' was underwritten by OPEC."
Patrick J. Michaels: a Senior Fellow in Environmental Studies with the Cato Institute. Michaels was previously a Professor of Environmental Science at the University of Virgina. While Michaels referred to himself as the State Climatologist for Virginia, in August 2006 the Governor clarified that the appointment was one by the University for its accredited climatology office but not an appointment by the state administration. When Michaels left the university in September 2007, UVa professor James N. Galloway explained that Michaels' "utility industry funding, private research and controversial views on global warming made him a lightning rod on climate change issues," and "left the [climatologist's] office too politicized."
"Michaels has received more than $115,000 over the last four years from coal and energy interests. World Climate Review, a quarterly he founded that routinely debunks climate concerns, was funded by Western Fuels."
A furor was raised when it was revealed in 2006 that, at customer expense, Patrick Michaels was quietly paid $100,000 by an electric utility, Intermountain Rural Electric Association, which burns coal to help confuse the issue of global warming
"Michaels' statements on [the subject of computer models] are a catalog of misrepresentation and misinterpretation. Many of the supposedly factual statements made in Michaels' testimony are either inaccurate or are seriously misleading."
(his views are employed by both Heritage and Cato)
S. Fred Singer: Editorial Advisory Board, The Cato Institute. In a September 24, 1993, sworn affidavit, Dr. Singer admitted to doing climate change research on behalf of oil companies, such as Exxon, Texaco, Arco, Shell and the American Gas Association.
Fred Singer's group and Exxon met at the American Petroleum Institute's Washington headquarters. They proposed a $5 million campaign, according to a leaked eight-page memo, to convince the public that the science of global warming is riddled with controversy and uncertainty." The plan was reportedly aimed at "raising questions about and undercutting the 'prevailing scientific wisdom'" on climate change. According to Newsweek, the plan was leaked to the press and therefore was never implemented.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Fred_Singer
(his views are employed by both Heritage and Cato)
Thomas Gale Moore: author of Climate of Fear: Why We Shouldn't Worry about Global Warming.
Moore blew smoke in America's face when he served as "peer-reviewer" for a Tobacco Institute hogwash report: Science, Economics, and Environmental Policy: A Critical Examination.
The tobacco links to Cato and C.E.I. are well documented, and do not need repetition -- just click the links provided. The Independent Institute is another Koch-funded organ using tabacco-techniques of the white lab coats to dissemble about global warming, of which Moore is an identified flack. Remember, Koch is an OIL company, even if they loan troops for tobacco battles. The evidence of this report is that Moore is corrupt, and was so on the day his name was listed on this report. Funders to Moore's various institutes include the "usual suspects" Olin-Bradley-Koch-Scaife, et al.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Thomas_Gale_Moore
(his views are employed by Heritage and Cato)
Andrei Illarionov is the chief economic Adviser to the President of the Russian Federation.
They always make sure they are heard with a "it's not our fault" for oil and tobacco concerns.
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| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2008, 12:34pm by Kevin_M » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #44 on: May 8th, 2008, 4:16pm » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 8:10am, pattik wrote:| Anyone who pays attention to stock investing knows that there are better returns to be had (on a long term basis) than the big oil companies. |
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This from 2006, and things are going much better now.
Quote:
on May 8th, 2008, 8:10am, pattik wrote:| They do okay, but a couple of good years don't put them at the top of the heap in overall investor return. In fact, they've been taking loses in the refinery end of the business due to the cost of crude. |
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Quote:Exxon's earnings did not top its best quarter ever, which came at the end of 2005. Exxon made $10.7 billion in the fourth quarter of 2005, the most ever for any U.S. corporation.
Crude prices hit record highs in the quarter but then sank about 20 percent from those highs. Still, prices were up about 12 percent for the quarter, on average, from a year earlier.
And earnings per share soared, topping even the amount Exxon earned in its record quarter thanks to a massive share buyback program.
Exxon said it distributed $8.9 billion to shareholders in the form of share buybacks and dividends in the most recent quarter, an increase of 30 percent from 2005.
This comes on top of the $11 billion that the company sent back to shareholders in the form of buybacks in the first two quarters, one analyst said Wednesday. |
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From today's news:
Quote:
This chart shows a 5 year stock price appreciation from about 38 to about 90 a share in the last five years.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=XOM&l=on&z=m&q=l&am p;c=
This chart shows Exxon rising 100% over the Dow, Nasdaq and S&P in the last five years.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=XOM&l=on&z=m&q=l&am p;c=&c=%5EGSPC&c=%5EIXIC&c=%5EDJI
Yeah, just "ok" I guess. No reason to attract investor attention.
You should go back in history to read of the 1947 committee investigating oil companies, which reported this:
Quote:| The oil companies have shown a singular lack of good faith, an avaricious desire for enormous profits, while at the same time they constantly sought the cloaks of the United States protection and financial assistance to preserve their vast concessions. |
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The adminstration of the Marshall Plan began its own investigation and shut down their agreed plan with the oil companies.
The FTC initiated its own inquiry in 1949 and in November 1951 released its final report, which was the most damning portrait yet of the inner workings of the largest oil corporations and formally requested that the attorney general initiate a criminal investigation of them.
Worse yet, after conducting their own supplemental inquiry, senior officials in the Dept. of Justice decided to initiate criminal proceedings against oil companies.
Oil companies argued it was easy to criticize their current windfall profits without taking into account the enormous risks, investment, and environmental hostility they faced. [sound familiar?] Didn't fly, Truman's last act as president through civil litigation was NSC 138/1, which Ike's administration endorsed and ratified.
The fears of oil scarcity that had shaped U.S. postwar foreign policy once again proved totally unjustified, and that, a new era of overabundance became the next major problem.
from: "A History of an Unreliable Market"
A different era, different president addressing it, but it happened when they were trusted.
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jace77
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #45 on: May 8th, 2008, 4:41pm » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 9:24am, superhawk2300 wrote:And the oil companies DO set their own prices.
When a gas station is determining the price it is going to charge it does a survey of all the stations in the surrounding area and they call that in to the corporate office, which in turn tells that station what to set its prices at.
Ever see a Mobil station at one side of town have gas for a certain price and just across town the Mobil station has gas for a different price? (this appies to all stations, not just Mobil).
The cost of a gallon of gas has almost nothing to do with the cost of a barrel of oil. |
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I asked the girl at a local gas station why the price went up from 3.42 to 3.89 gal within 2 hours and she said because we can! The station is privately owned and she told me they are always about twenty cents higher than stations a few miles away because they are the only one around in the village!
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| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2008, 4:43pm by jace77 » |
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pattik
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #46 on: May 8th, 2008, 5:33pm » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 4:16pm, Kevin_M wrote:
This chart shows a 5 year stock price appreciation from about 38 to about 90 a share in the last five years.
>snip>
Yeah, just "ok" I guess. No reason to attract investor attention. |
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Geeesh, Kev...you've really got a bee in your bonnet over XOM. Yeah, that's quite a chart...too bad it's mostly on paper only, unless of course you keep selling on the way up. Maybe you didn't notice their dividend is around 1.8%. That's fairly mediocre returns compared to the evil banks, the evil pharmas, the evil gaming companies, and of course the evil tobacco companies. It's even less than most of the other big integrated oils. They've been getting a lot of heat from investors to raise their dividends. I know that having them send ME money four times a year certainly takes some of the sting out of the price at the pump. I would suggest that if people don't like a company's actions, they can spend their gas money elsewhere, or buy stock and at least vote their opinions. There is a lot of investor activism these days. How about you, Kev, what oil stock do you own?
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Jimi
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #47 on: May 8th, 2008, 6:01pm » |
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Can't speak for Kevin but I own stock in Conoco-Philips. Doing pretty good too. 
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Kevin_M
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #48 on: May 8th, 2008, 6:09pm » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 5:33pm, pattik wrote:| Geeesh, Kev...you've really got a bee in your bonnet over XOM. |
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No bee in my bonnet, Patti. You presented your investment opinion of oil companies.
Quote:| Anyone who pays attention to stock investing knows that there are better returns to be had (on a long term basis) than the big oil companies. They do okay, but a couple of good years don't put them at the top of the heap in overall investor return. |
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Noticing you mentioned "long term", I showed a five year price performance of a most noticeable corporation within the industry. The opinion of it being an "ok" investment is open to opinion. It looks better than ok to me.
Looking at a five year "long term" holding, (more than a couple of good years, as you stated) there seems to be more than an ok performance when the averages are so far below. It might be thought that following the averages or being a little above the averages would be ok. I wouldn't consider Exxon's performance in that range but above it on stock appreciation alone, dividends a plus.
Quote:That's fairly mediocre returns compared to the evil banks, the evil pharmas, the evil gaming companies, and of course the evil tobacco companies.
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Speaking of returns for long term holding, you can compare price appreciation here for Exxon with Bank of America (bank), and Pfizer (pharma), if I have the symbols right.
Which would be bad, which would be ok, and which would be the best of the three?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=XOM&l=on&z=m&q=l&am p;c=bk%2C+pfe
Which would you rather have in your 401k, IRA, or investment porfolio? The bank, the pharma, or the oil stock?
If Exxon is ok for you, then perhaps it is ok compared to your other investments.
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| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2008, 6:43pm by Kevin_M » |
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Kevin_M
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Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #49 on: May 8th, 2008, 6:30pm » |
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on May 8th, 2008, 6:01pm, Jimi wrote:| I own stock in Conoco-Philips. Doing pretty good too. |
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Now there is an honest answer.
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