Author |
Topic: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR! (Read 5901 times) |
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender: 
Posts: 6184
|
 |
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #50 on: May 8th, 2008, 7:01pm » |
 Quote  Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 5:33pm, pattik wrote:| Maybe you didn't notice their dividend is around 1.8%. |
|
So that is the reason you have the stock?
I think the last split was 2001, maybe another in the future for long term holders.
|
|
 IP Logged |
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
    
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #51 on: May 8th, 2008, 7:02pm » |
Quote Modify
|
The thing about energy companies is that they make billions, billions and more billions keeping things as they are. Enviromentalists stand to make almost nothing from any real changes. Given this, whom would you expect to go out of their way to shut down debate and discredit scientific research?
Bend over kids.....might as well, we've been doing it for 100 years.
Charlie
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #52 on: May 8th, 2008, 7:18pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 7:02pm, Charlie wrote:| they make billions, billions and more billions keeping things as they are. |
|
That is the thing about the growing profits Charlie, the incentive gets greater and greater and with fossil fuel abundant, a resistant continuation onto who knows what but who's going to care.
|
| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2008, 7:22pm by Kevin_M » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Paul98
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
What, it's all in my head?
Gender:
Posts: 2108
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #53 on: May 8th, 2008, 7:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 7:02pm, Charlie wrote:The thing about energy companies is that they make billions, billions and more billions keeping things as they are. Enviromentalists stand to make almost nothing from any real changes. Given this, whom would you expect to go out of their way to shut down debate and discredit scientific research?
Bend over kids.....might as well, we've been doing it for 100 years.
Charlie |
|
Thankfully the oil companys have lots of lubricant 
-P.
|
|
IP Logged |
  
http://www.myspace.com/pjl98
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #54 on: May 8th, 2008, 7:29pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 7:23pm, Paul98 wrote:
Thankfully the oil companys have lots of lubricant
-P.
|
|
Now that's effen funny! 
Charlie
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #55 on: May 8th, 2008, 7:31pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 7:23pm, Paul98 wrote:| Thankfully the oil companys have lots of lubricant |
|
LOL!
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
pattik
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Gender: 
Posts: 2404
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #56 on: May 8th, 2008, 11:43pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 7:01pm, Kevin_M wrote:| So that is the reason you have the stock? |
|
That's a really good question. Maybe a better question is why I do STILL have it?...on one hand, the directors of my retirement pension plan keep it around, and I don't have any say in that. The couple of shares that I actually control may very well be at a much larger capital gains risk very soon if Obama gets into the white house. I've heard he wants to raise capital gains taxes, among others. So maybe it's time to sell.
Quote:| Thankfully the oil companys have lots of lubricant Grin |
|
Gotta love those fossil fuels.
|
| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2008, 11:47pm by pattik » |
IP Logged |
The voyage of discovery is not about seeking new landscapes, it's about having new eyes--Marcel Proust
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #57 on: May 9th, 2008, 5:55am » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 8:10am, pattik wrote:| there are better returns to be had (on a long term basis) than the big oil companies. They do okay, but a couple of good years don't put them at the top of the heap in overall investor return. |
|
A concern about capital gains taxes could be because of such a high return on investment from any long term realized gains.
This is not quite the only scenario when owning their stock.
Quote:| their dividend is around 1.8%. That's fairly mediocre returns |
|
|
| « Last Edit: May 9th, 2008, 5:55am by Kevin_M » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Paul98
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
What, it's all in my head?
Gender:
Posts: 2108
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #58 on: May 9th, 2008, 11:00am » |
Quote Modify
|
Well folks, prices for crude hit $126 bbl. today which means that (roughly) each galon in that barrel costs $3.00. on the open market. Prices in CNY are ~ $3.799 /gal this morning.
80 cents for tax, refining costs, transportation......???
You think the price at the pump are bad now wait 2-4 weeks! I'm willing to bet you see $4.30 by Memorial day.
It is going to be a rough summer!
-P.
|
|
IP Logged |
http://www.myspace.com/pjl98
|
|
|
purpleydog
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Posts: 2240
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #59 on: May 9th, 2008, 9:29pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Developing alternative means of energy is important, so we don't have to reply on oil, and gas to heat our houses, fuel our vehicles, run our appliances.
That said, it's interesting, they want to build a wind farm here in the next county. Like they have in northern Illlinois, there are 3 or 4 wind farms, huge windmills, with huge blades. However, the state wants to tax this wind farm at $9000.00 per acre. Now, I figure, with the size of the windmills, it will take about 1 acre to have one windmill. Where is the incentive to switch to an alternative fuel source here? At several hundred acres, the state would be taking a lot of the energy profits in taxes? So, what the hell is the point? I guess the lobbyists for the coal fired power plants must really have some pull.
Last year was the last year you could take a deduction for a solar powered energy system installed on your house. Gee, where's that incentive? And for your gas/ battery powered cars too.
And while we may argue about the profits of the oil companies, especially XOM, remember that their profits are not just selling just oil and natural gas to fuel your cars and homes. There are many petroleum products we all use on a daily basis, and some are used medically, and if we didn't have them, where would we be? Everything plastic you own is made from petroleum. Every plastic storage container, every plastic bag you use, the keyboards and mice, and monitor casings for your computers. Think about it.
While oil companies are now starting to call themselves energy companies, I have to commend them for at least trying to find alternative sources of energy. Petroleum won't last forever, but we sure use a lot of it in our lives, not counting the gasoline and diesel we use in our vehicles.
Quote:| You know, that foul language you quoted in your post is actually more reminiscent of some of the language I sometimes read right here on good ol' CH.com, but I suppose we don't have a corner on looking ignorant from how we use language |
|
Good point, Patti.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Jonny
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Give me a shovel Ill dig my own grave!
Gender:
Posts: 26213
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #60 on: May 9th, 2008, 9:36pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 9th, 2008, 9:29pm, purpleydog wrote:| so we don't have to reply on oil, and gas to heat our houses, fuel our vehicles, run our appliances. |
|
No, we dont have to reply. 
|
|
IP Logged |
It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #61 on: May 10th, 2008, 10:32pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Oil, or the ridiculous moniker "energy companies" are making the evil drug companies look good........nah. Nothing comes close to drug companies......anyway......
If you think energy companies have some itty bitty sense of responsibility other than making mount Everest-size piles of cash for the Dick Cheneys of the world; you need to visit earth real soon.
Charlie
|
| « Last Edit: May 10th, 2008, 10:33pm by Charlie » |
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #62 on: May 10th, 2008, 11:42pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 9th, 2008, 9:29pm, purpleydog wrote:And while we may argue about the profits of the oil companies, especially XOM, remember that their profits are not just selling just oil and natural gas to fuel your cars and homes.
Everything plastic you own is made from petroleum.
|
|
Yes, and that is still selling oil, which plastics are made from. You can see here how consistently Mattel has considerably struggled with high oil prices compared to Exxon.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5y&s=XOM&l=on&z=m&q=l&am p;c=mat
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #63 on: May 11th, 2008, 12:22pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 9th, 2008, 9:29pm, purpleydog wrote:Developing alternative means of energy is important, so we don't have to reply on oil, and gas to heat our houses, fuel our vehicles, run our appliances.
While oil companies are now starting to call themselves energy companies, I have to commend them for at least trying to find alternative sources of energy. Petroleum won't last forever, but we sure use a lot of it in our lives, not counting the gasoline and diesel we use in our vehicles. |
|
Just to clarify, concerning Exxon, this is not their strategy at all; our dependence on oil is heavily relied upon.
They've taken heat for it. Here's what they are doing.
Quote:Why Exxon Mobile Doesn't Care About Alternative Fuels
April 30, 2007
The basic model for managing an oil company in this eco-conscious age became clear a few years ago when Britain's BP (Charts) loudly declared itself to be "beyond petroleum." The other supermajors are all proclaiming their greenness and investing in biofuels, wind power and solar power. Exxon isn't. It only recently acknowledged publicly that - brace yourself - the world is warming. Beyond petroleum? At Exxon it's all petroleum.
...
[this again cites the oil-industry analyst I quoted earlier in the thread.]
"Exxon Mobil is not a fun place to work," says Fadel Gheit, the Oppenheimer & Co. oil industry analyst widely considered Wall Street's best. "They're not in the fun business," he explains. "They're in the profit business."
...
Exxon is certain that oil, gas and coal will remain the world's dominant energy sources for decades to come.
...
Fossil fuels will remain the planet's No. 1 energy source through the 21st century, supplying 70% to 80% of the total by 2100, vs. about 90% today. Exxon forecasts only as far as 2030; in that year, it projects, primary energy sources such as coal, oil and gas will account for 81% of global demand.
That's another reason Exxon isn't investing in alternative energy sources: They don't look big enough. For a company Exxon's size - No. 2 on the Fortune 500 - businesses of less than mammoth scale don't merit troubling with because they can't nudge the bottom line.
...
Exxon avoids investment in alternative energy sources for yet another reason, one that reaches deep into the company's experience: Much depends on the future price of oil, and no one knows what it will be. Consider two scenarios. If oil dropped to $25 a barrel - about what it was (in today's dollars) just before 9/11 - alternative energy would look even less attractive economically. Exxon's decision not to invest would look all the wiser, but its oil-related profits would shrink. Conversely, if oil rose to $100, its profits would rise but many alternative energy sources would become economically viable - and Exxon wouldn't be able to capitalize on them.
The company considers low-price oil the greater risk. Experience has shown that when oil prices rise, customers are slow to cut back. Alternative energy may sell better in a high-oil-price world, but Exxon wouldn't care, since it believes those sources are destined to be small-scale - and it would be making huge profits in its traditional business.
...
The answer is spelled out in a recent SEC filing: "Investment opportunities are tested against a variety of market conditions, including low-price scenarios. As a result, investments that would succeed only in highly favorable price environments are screened out of the investment plan." Alternative energy sources are precisely such investments.
...
[b]Exxon does have a strategy for a carbon-constrained world; it just has nothing to do with alternative energy. The company's scientists are researching how to reduce CO2 emissions from oil and gas, and working with auto companies to make engines more efficient. Unlike, say, biomass or windmills, those are fields in which Exxon commands formidable expertise.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/04/30/840539 8/index.htm |
|
Quote:Exxon Mobile to Discuss Alternative Energy
May 30th, 2007
Today the shareholders at Exxon Mobile meet to discuss the future of their investments into the development of alternative energy sources. Of course, company management does not think it to be a profitable endeavor and will discourage shareholders from proposing such investments, citing them as unprofitable and unnecessary.
In it's yearly proxy statement Exxon said "The corporation's traditional business areas remain critical and promise far greater value than renewables, which currently lack the scale and economic competitiveness of our core business opportunities". It makes sense that a company that specializes in fossil fuel production and distribution would make this statement, but the portion regarding the scale and economic competitiveness is somewhat true, unfortunately. The possibility that Exxon’s shareholders could decide to invest in more R&D would be a monumental business move in the green direction, but still looks unlikely. It's just progressive that they're even bringing it up at the meeting!
http://www.energyrefuge.com/blog/exxon-mobile-to-discuss/ |
|
Quote:Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy Motor Oil Offers Fuel Savings and Reduced Greenhouse Gas Emissions
April 3, 2008 9:00 AM ET
If just one-third of U.S. motorists reduced their gasoline consumption by 2 percent, almost 1 billion gallons of gasoline and 8 million tons of carbon dioxide emissions would be saved every year. This would be equivalent to taking around 1.5 million cars off the road.
(Based on a comparison versus those grades most commonly used and a potential 2% fuel economy improvement. Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions, and your current engine oil viscosity.)
[what is the higher cost of Mobil 1?]
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx?Feed=BW&Date=20 080403&ID=8433648&Symbol=XOM |
|
From a link posted above:
Quote:| However the company also said greenhouse gas emissions were 146 million metric tons, a 5.4-percent increase over the year before. |
|
Quote:
While still with oil, CO2 extraction could reduce their costs, I see the incentive.
Quote:| "Exxon Mobil is not a fun place to work," says Fadel Gheit, the Oppenheimer & Co. oil industry analyst widely considered Wall Street's best. "They're not in the fun business," he explains. "They're in the profit business." |
|
on May 9th, 2008, 9:29pm, purpleydog wrote:| I have to commend them for at least trying to find alternative sources of energy. |
|
I will hold off before commending Exxon.
|
| « Last Edit: May 11th, 2008, 12:49pm by Kevin_M » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
purpleydog
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Posts: 2240
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #64 on: May 11th, 2008, 3:27pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 11th, 2008, 12:22pm, Kevin_M wrote:
Just to clarify, concerning Exxon, this is not their strategy at all; our dependence on oil is heavily relied upon.
They've taken heat for it. Here's what they are doing.
I will hold off before commending Exxon.
|
|
Quote:| The basic model for managing an oil company in this eco-conscious age became clear a few years ago when Britain's BP (Charts) loudly declared itself to be "beyond petroleum." The other supermajors are all proclaiming their greenness and investing in biofuels, wind power and solar power. Exxon isn't. It only recently acknowledged publicly that - brace yourself - the world is warming. Beyond petroleum? At Exxon it's all petroleum. |
|
Petroleum profit is at the base of every petroleum company. Heck yeah, as the price of a barrel of oil rises, their profits go up. And that is what EVERY oil company is about. Not just XOM.
Quote:| "Exxon Mobil is not a fun place to work," says Fadel Gheit, the Oppenheimer & Co. oil industry analyst widely considered Wall Street's best. "They're not in the fun business," he explains. "They're in the profit business." |
|
All companies are in the profit business.
Quote:| Fossil fuels will remain the planet's No. 1 energy source through the 21st century, supplying 70% to 80% of the total by 2100, vs. about 90% today. Exxon forecasts only as far as 2030; in that year, it projects, primary energy sources such as coal, oil and gas will account for 81% of global demand. |
|
This is true, as other alternatives are developed, and put into practice. Just one example are vehicles that have alternative means of supplying power, and don't rely on just oil/gas to operate. Of course, the costs of developing these fossil fuel resources will cost money, and the cost of the results, petroleum products, to the customer, will still increase.
Quote:| That's another reason Exxon isn't investing in alternative energy sources: They don't look big enough. For a company Exxon's size - No. 2 on the Fortune 500 - businesses of less than mammoth scale don't merit troubling with because they can't nudge the bottom line. |
|
Right now, this may be true, but looking at the long view, they will be looking at more alternative ways of developing energy, and spending more on R&D to develop them. This may be finding more efficient ways to use petroleum, and recycling (as you mentioned using CO gas), but oil is a finite resource.
Quote:| Experience has shown that when oil prices rise, customers are slow to cut back. Alternative energy may sell better in a high-oil-price world, but Exxon wouldn't care, since it believes those sources are destined to be small-scale - and it would be making huge profits in its traditional business. |
|
Right now, yes, alternatives are in the minority, but with the rapidly rising price of gas now, customers are and will be cutting back much more (I'm talking car drivers), however, there will always be large business that will use, and will have to use oil and gas to fuel their "fleets" of vehicles, including the US government. Non-government business will pass these costs on to their customers, while at the same time considering alternatives ways to ship their product, to save money.
Quote:on May 9th, 2008, 8:29pm, purpleydog wrote:
I have to commend them for at least trying to find alternative sources of energy. |
|
When I said this, I was talking about all oil companies, not just XOM.
Quote:Oil, or the ridiculous moniker "energy companies" are making the evil drug companies look good........nah. Nothing comes close to drug companies......anyway......
If you think energy companies have some itty bitty sense of responsibility other than making mount Everest-size piles of cash for the Dick Cheneys of the world; you need to visit earth real soon.
Charlie |
|
No worries, Charlie. All oil companies are out to make as much as they can off oil. All I was saying is that they are at least trying. I only mentioned energy company, because some of them are calling themselves that now.
I find it interesting that people are challenging oil companies to come up with alternative forms of energy, when what they do is sell oil. To me, that seems almost contradictory. But some oil companies have taken on the challenge to try, so if they can/want to do it, more power to 'em.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #65 on: May 12th, 2008, 2:16am » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 11th, 2008, 3:27pm, purpleydog wrote:| Petroleum profit is at the base of every petroleum company. Heck yeah, as the price of a barrel of oil rises, their profits go up. And that is what EVERY oil company is about. Not just XOM. |
|
My point was that XOM is in the profit business exclusively, not in the alternative energy business. I wished to exclude them from any commending for alternative energy, it is not their interest.
Quote:| oil is a finite resource. |
|
This keeps getting repeated.
Quote:| Fossil fuels will remain the planet's No. 1 energy source through the 21st century, supplying 70% to 80% of the total by 2100, vs. about 90% today. Exxon forecasts only as far as 2030; in that year, it projects, primary energy sources such as coal, oil and gas will account for 81% of global demand. |
|
Do you know why Exxon knows this?
70%- 80% of the total global demand for energy at what the population will be at 2100 is an unbelievable amount of fossil fuels, because that's how much there is. Exxon is sure of it.
The total fossil fuel use since 1750, the Industrial Revolution, is estimated at 280 GtC (GtC = 1000 million metric tons of carbon). If we use the total remaining reserves in the Earth, the resulting emissions would amount to 5000 GtC. 18 times more CO2 than emitted over the past 250 years. Even with a substantial margin of error, problems will be pretty big before running out.
Quote:I have to commend them for at least trying to find alternative sources of energy.
When I said this, I was talking about all oil companies, not just XOM. |
|
I know you were. I was singling out Exxon as not being into alternative energy. All oil companies are not into alternative energy.
Quote:| I find it interesting that people are challenging oil companies to come up with alternative forms of energy, when what they do is sell oil. |
|
Quote:| the resulting emissions would amount to 5000 GtC. 18 times more CO2 than emitted over the past 250 years. |
|
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
deltadarlin
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Gender:
Posts: 1485
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #66 on: May 12th, 2008, 9:16am » |
Quote Modify
|
What should we tell all the people who have investments in EOM, "sorry, but we want to take some/most/all of the profit you are making?".
We tend to forget that there are a lot of *every day joes and janes* out there who are getting dividends off these investments. Afraid there will be lots of folks who might take umbrage at that attitude, like the Teacher Retirement System of Texas and the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System, which have invested $1.6 billion and $1 billion in the company, respectively.
How should we rectify these problems such as massive profits by the oil companies? Further government intervention? Yeah right, as if things aren't screwed up enough already.
|
|
IP Logged |
If it weren't for the gutter, y mind would be homeless.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v123/tribander_3/
You pretend to pay me, I pretend to work.
|
|
|
pattik
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Gender:
Posts: 2404
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #67 on: May 12th, 2008, 9:40am » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 12th, 2008, 9:16am, deltadarlin wrote:
We tend to forget that there are a lot of *every day joes and janes* out there who are getting dividends off these investments. Afraid there will be lots of folks who might take umbrage at that attitude, like the Teacher Retirement System of Texas and the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System, which have invested $1.6 billion and $1 billion in the company, respectively. |
|
Well said. SOME people tend to forget the "public" part of publicly traded companies. There are real human beings who own these companies as shareholders--it's not just some abstract money-making machine. And some of them even take an interest and develop shareholder issues to be voted on during annual meetings. With social security and medicare facing a real crisis, the profits from successfully run companies may be what makes the difference for many retirees between finishing out their lives in poverty or having enough to not be a burden on society or their children. I'm betting that there are countless numbers of workers in this country who don't even know (or care) what the holdings are in their company's pension plans, as long as they see the bottom line continue to grow.
|
|
IP Logged |
The voyage of discovery is not about seeking new landscapes, it's about having new eyes--Marcel Proust
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #68 on: May 12th, 2008, 12:04pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 12th, 2008, 9:16am, deltadarlin wrote:| the Teacher Retirement System of Texas and the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System, which have invested $1.6 billion and $1 billion in the company, respectively. |
|
Wasn't there another very lucrative company teachers were invested heavily in called Enron? Didn't they take a great concern in society's future with great returns?
on May 12th, 2008, 9:16am, deltadarlin wrote:| How should we rectify these problems such as massive profits by the oil companies? Further government intervention? Yeah right, as if things aren't screwed up enough already. |
|
How should we rectify these problems such as
Quote:| problems will be pretty big before running out. |
|
Further government intervention? Yeah right, as if things aren't screwed up enough already.
As Chris mentioned:
Quote:| I find it interesting that people are challenging oil companies to come up with alternative forms of energy, when what they do is sell oil. |
|
Exxon sees selling oil to 2100 as very lucrative. If they are planning and looking forward to it, protecting their huge profits means staying the course.
on May 12th, 2008, 9:40am, pattik wrote:| There are real human beings who own these companies as shareholders--it's not just some abstract money-making machine. And some of them even take an interest and develop shareholder issues to be voted on during annual meetings. |
|
Quote:Exxon Mobile to Discuss Alternative Energy
May 30th, 2007
Today the shareholders at Exxon Mobile meet to discuss the future of their investments into the development of alternative energy sources. Of course, company management does not think it to be a profitable endeavor and will discourage shareholders from proposing such investments, citing them as unprofitable and unnecessary.
In it's yearly proxy statement Exxon said "The corporation's traditional business areas remain critical and promise far greater value than renewables, which currently lack the scale and economic competitiveness of our core business opportunities". It makes sense that a company that specializes in fossil fuel production and distribution would make this statement, but the portion regarding the scale and economic competitiveness is somewhat true, unfortunately. The possibility that Exxon's shareholders could decide to invest in more R&D would be a monumental business move in the green direction, but still looks unlikely. It's just progressive that they're even bringing it up at the meeting! |
|
Develop all you want if you think it matters. People don't protest too much when handed profits.
on May 12th, 2008, 9:40am, pattik wrote:| With social security and medicare facing a real crisis, the profits from successfully run companies may be what makes the difference for many retirees between finishing out their lives in poverty or having enough to not be a burden on society or their children. |
|
What kind of burden is left to society and your children? Maybe no, not you, but a much bigger one.
Quote:| I'm betting that there are countless numbers of workers in this country who don't even know (or care) what the holdings are in their company's pension plans, as long as they see the bottom line continue to grow. |
|
Good bet. There are also companies who don't care about anything but the bottom line, I guess we should too, we won't be here to see the result.
Think about it this way. What if you had a favorite restaurant, ate there everyday, and the owner only thought about the bottom line. Behind the scenes he may hold hard and fast to the 15 second rule: if it falls on the floor for less than 15 seconds, it's still good. There may be sanitation and health shortcuts taken. But the food seems good, he serves a lot of people, complaints are addressed generously like an ambassador.
Eastern airlines took shortcuts in maintanance for the bottom line, they're gone. Recently that concern came up again with American.
The point is when the bottom line is above all else, something is not being addressed. With Exxon, seeing continuation of fossil fuels into the next century means something is not being addressed, everyone's environment and future.
|
| « Last Edit: May 12th, 2008, 1:08pm by Kevin_M » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
alienspacebabe
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
yup. i am. i do. uh huh. you know it hon.
Gender:
Posts: 1775
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #69 on: May 12th, 2008, 2:03pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 8th, 2008, 9:27am, Paul98 wrote:The problem is that supply and demand are no longer the driving force setting the prices.
|
|
Demand for gasoline is relatively inelastic (indeed, almost *perfectly* inelastic): a change in price has little if any affect on changing demand.
Why is it almost perfectly inelastic? THERE ARE NO SUBSTITUTES!
We'll buy it, whatever the price, because we *need* it.
|
|
IP Logged |
Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves.
|
|
|
Paul98
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
What, it's all in my head?
Gender:
Posts: 2108
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #70 on: May 12th, 2008, 3:05pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 12th, 2008, 2:03pm, alienspacebabe wrote:
Demand for gasoline is relatively inelastic (indeed, almost *perfectly* inelastic): a change in price has little if any affect on changing demand.
Why is it almost perfectly inelastic? THERE ARE NO SUBSTITUTES!
We'll buy it, whatever the price, because we *need* it.
|
|
I would tend to disagree with this because demand has begun to slow. If gas were to go to $10/ gal you would see huge changes in lifestyle. Relocating closer to work, demand for mastransit and the SUV craze would be a thing of the past.
-P.
|
|
IP Logged |
http://www.myspace.com/pjl98
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #71 on: May 12th, 2008, 7:37pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on May 12th, 2008, 9:16am, deltadarlin wrote:
How should we rectify these problems such as massive profits by the oil companies? Further government intervention? Yeah right, as if things aren't screwed up enough already.
|
|
Just something to think about when dealing with monster car and energy companies: These guys don't like to play fair. Seat belts: It took legislation to get them. Better fuel standards: Legislation. Air bags: Legislation.
I have a feeling that they might get a better deal and have better public relations if they didn't force Washington to get more involved. I don't want that either. Why does it always have to go so far? Some greed is good as they say but throw us a bone now and then.
Charlie 
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
stevegeebe
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Gender:
Posts: 1342
|
|
lifeaftertRe: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #72 on: May 12th, 2008, 9:25pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Belly aching about Big Oil will achieve very little. I seriously doubt they will change because it is a matter of supply and demand.
It's business and because of that little is done out of kindness.
We need to focus on conservation. We, as 300 million people, should start acting together to reduce our collective consumption. Take these realized savings channel it toward alternatives.
And these ideas need to be in balance with the Planet. You see what's happening with corn? Corn prices go up and all of the other grains follow. What product has allowed unforseen crop yeilds? Oil.
The Moon moves the Oceans daily. That's energy. Maybe not much but we with reduced consumption it could make what we have last longer so our kids can make it through the transition. Allow them to make the things for the next phase.
When I think about the stored power in a gallon of gas, I'm truely amazed that it is as cheap as it is. Imagine pushing your car to work. Furthermore, imagine pushing it to 60 miles per hour. That's alot of energy.
Try to think of ways to reduce your own usage and implement them. See what happens. And if we all did it, just think...,gas prices may at least level out some.
I'm going to hit the O2 now. I'm sure that oil had something to do with the fact that I have these E-tanks in my bedroom.
Coasting along,
Steve G
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
Happy to be here
Gender:
Posts: 14968
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #73 on: May 13th, 2008, 8:56am » |
Quote Modify
|
Nonetheless, it would have been nice if GM didn't crush the successful electric cars they developed once the California Air Resource Board standards were rescinded after a whole passel of lawyers and paid "experts" bombed the hearings. Not an atom of compassion for the community.
Back to the Black Tower in Detroit and probably reprimands to their developers for the mistake. Can't have that.
Oh....I have about as much compassion for oil companies as I do, evil drug companies.
Charlies
|
|
IP Logged |
There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
|
|
|
Kevin_M
CH.com Alumnus
New Board Hall of Famer
withered branches grow green again.
Gender:
Posts: 6184
|
|
Re: Its time to start drilling in ANWAR!
« Reply #74 on: May 13th, 2008, 6:06pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Quote:The Associated Press May 13, 2008, 11:59AM ET
Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan
By H. JOSEF HEBERT
WASHINGTON
The Senate has rejected a Republican energy plan that calls for opening an Alaska wildlife refuge and some offshore waters to oil development.
by a vote of 56-42,
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D90KRN4O1.htm |
|
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Member Map
Login
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print
test rss