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Altma

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Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Jul 9^th, 2008 at 11:24am

My Doctor prescribed these for me to try.. has anyone had any luck with them?

it's Naprosyn 500mg

and Lidocaine drops: says 3-4 drops at onset..

My doctor said he was wary about prescribing Verapamil because of my age, I'm only 28. He said it would most likely make me feel really tired and weak.

Just curious to see what I might expect.

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monty

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Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Reply #1 - Jul 9^th, 2008 at 11:30am

Naprosyn (and aspirin, ibuprofen, acetominophen, etc) are rarely worth much for cluster headache. Be prepared for likely disappointment on that one.

Lidocaine drops help some people - if you can get the liquid close to the inflamed nerve, or if the clusters are linked to contact point issues with your sinuses, it may offer some relief from symptoms.

Overall, that's not a great plan for dealing with clusters. Lots of information available - start reading.

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« Last Edit: Jul 9^th, 2008 at 11:33am by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Altma CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 6	Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops Reply #2 - Jul 9^th, 2008 at 12:13pm Thanks for the reply Monty, it's basically a starting point as my doctor just diagnosed my headaches as cluster headaches.. So I'll start with these, if they don't work, I'll go back, and try something else. I referred him to this site, so he knows where he can get some information too.. -Rob
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cluster

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I should lie on my back ...
Reply #3 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 5:21am

From a patients instruction sheet about the use of nasally applied local anesthetic to abort CH attacks:

Quote:

… I should lie on my back on a flat surface extending my neck towards the floor at a 30-45° angle from the horizontal. I should then turn my head towards the headache side – that is, to the right side in the event of right sided headache or towards the left side in the event of a left sided headache. I will then apply 1/2 to 1/3 dropperful increments of the solution in a direction towards my headache side eye and sniff through my nose in an inward direction at the same time. I will remain in this lying position for at least 30 seconds before arising. In the event of failure of the first application to subdue my headache I will apply it once more in a similar manner.

Source: Barré F.: Cocaine as an abortive agent in cluster headache. Headache. 1982 Mar; 22(2): 69-73. PMID 7085264.

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The red spot in this illustration shows the area, to which the lidocaine solution should be applied.

Barré was the first to use the local anesthetic cocaine as an abortive. Later studies using the same procedure of application found that lidocaine nasal drops (not spray) are equally effective, when applied correctly according to the instruction described above.

Quote:

In his evaluation of intranasal lidocaine in the treatment of cluster headache (Headache 1995;35:83-84), Robbins found that none of his 30 patients had achieved excellent results and only 27% achieved moderate benefit. He concluded that intranasal lidocaine was only marginally helpful therapy for cluster headache.

These findings are considerably poorer than those of Kittrelle et al,1 who had reported a complete response in 4 of 5 patients, or Hardebo and Elner2 having reported a 50% or greater response in 40% of patients. It should be important to note, therefore, that the lidocaine preparation used by Robbins (spray) differed from that used in the other studies (lidocaine nose drops). It would have been more prudent for Robbins to have concluded that in view of earlier treatment results with lidocaine nose drops, lidocaine nasal spray appeared to be less beneficial in the symptomatic treatment of cluster headache.

More importantly, it is now common experience that, in at least some patients, intranasal lidocaine affords rapid and total relief of cluster attacks. This demonstrates the significance of the facial nerve's sphenopalatine ganglion and periganglia in the pathogenesis of cluster attacks.

Source: Kudrow L, Kudrow DB.: Intranasal lidocaine. Headache. 1995 Oct; 35(9): 565-6. Letter. PMID 8530286

Some more reading about CH treatment for yourself and for your doctor:

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pf wishes and good luck with the lidocaine!
Friedrich

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- German CH Site

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Bob Johnson

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Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Reply #4 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 11:19am

Verapamil is the "gold standard" for prevention and has been for several years. While the side effect your doc mentioned is possible, in real experience, many Ch folks use very high doses with no significiant problems.

Let me suggest that you print out these lists of treaments and give your doc. They reflect the most current thinking on treatments.
============

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Here is a link to read and print and take to your doctor. It describes preventive, transitional, abortive and surgical treatments for CH. Written by one of the better headache docs in the U.S. (2002)
================
Michigan Headache & Neurological Institute for another list of treatments and other articles:

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Bob Johnson

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cynthia_in_nh

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Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Reply #5 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 12:36pm

4% Lidocaine nasal spray (not drops) is the only thing I've tried (so far) that has been effective for my headache. It worked instantly and the headache did not return when it wore off. It does feel a little weird though, your whole inner head and throat get numb, but it is a huge relief (at least to me). I carry around one in my purse and have one on the nightstand.

Verapamil is the other thing that has worked. The congestion in my eye / nose finally let up by about 80% about a day after starting verap. I have experienced only good things from verap -- nothing bad at all although the doctors seem to be on high alert about it.

From what I've read here there can be a very wide range of responses to different things. So it'a all worth a try -- you won't know what your particular response will be.

Also, from what I've read and what I've experienced with my doctors, some doctors seem to be swimming in uncharted waters when it comes to headache. It's all a big experiment. Reading this board will fill you with knowledge.

Cynthia

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thebbz Ex Member	Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops Reply #6 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 12:42pm The bad thing about the lidocaine nasal....Then your all high on coke. I cant work spreadsheets high on coke. On the other hand I cant do much high on coke. Not for me. It does provide some immediate relief,but not a good treatment in the long run. all the best thebb
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cynthia_in_nh CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 23	Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops Reply #7 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 1:21pm Hm, I haven't noticed any effect I would call a high -- unless it is masked by the happiness that the pain is gone. I just feel normal, but without pain. Like I said, it seems that each med can have a very different effect for each person. C
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thebbz

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Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Reply #8 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 1:30pm

I'm glad that works for you C. I think the main point is there are better treatments. The goal is remission not just treating the individual headache. Read the link Bob posted. If it works for you then good deal. Keep on the fight. Wink

thebb

Lidocaine has pretty much the same effect on most people. It numbs the nerves in the area applied. Works well but, not a long term solution.

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« Last Edit: Jul 10^th, 2008 at 1:34pm by N/A »

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Altma CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 6	Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops Reply #9 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 1:34pm Well my pharmacy had to order it special, something they don't carry.. unfortunately as I type this, i'm getting hit hard.. tried a monster drink.. didn't work .. so.. I'm gonna be in pain a bit here before I can get the drops. THANK YOU ALL for getting me some more info for my doctor.. I gotta do something ...
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thebbz Ex Member	Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops Reply #10 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 1:36pm Hang tough and kick some demon butt. I hate for ya. thebb
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lloydy CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 1	Re: Vermapamil Reply #11 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 1:49pm I've tried Vermapamil without any success. It just made me very tired.
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StressFree

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Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Reply #12 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 2:04pm

Lidocaine is not even close to being "coke". It will not get you high at all. In my case it did abort quite a few attacks, but they would return later with vengance (within a few hours). I had the same effect using topical muscle lotions, where sometimes I would get a great abort, but it would return later and the same treatment would not touch it. Maybe real cocaine would work better. You might try the clusterbusters.com methods, if unable to find success with standard treatments from the doc. Sometimes a super cold can of soda held at the base of my skull (using it as a pillow) worked. Some use ice or heat (heat not good for me). I've also used a TENS machine to get some relief (electrical stimulation of muscles and nerves). Naprosyn has been usefull for me also if taken immediately at first sign of oncoming attack and with very hot water.

Best of luck, Rich

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thebbz Ex Member	Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops Reply #13 - Jul 10^th, 2008 at 2:19pm Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Counterindications include: DHE
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Sophia

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Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Reply #14 - Jul 11^th, 2008 at 10:43am

This sounds like a lovely idea!!! I go see the neurologist next wednesday and will ask her if I can have some. I hope she says yes. I am so tired of the beast. It has survived veraprimil and prednisolone and still just loves me. I wish it would go away and love on somebody I really dont like or be constructive and end the war or something. The ER doc didnt know what to do here in Denmark so she gave me morphiene. Dangit. The stuff didnt work. It didnt even make me sleep. Kick some headache behind!!!
I gotta laugh, it hurts too much to cry. Sophia

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cluster

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Lidocaine for acute treatment
Reply #15 - Jul 15^th, 2008 at 10:01am

Hello Bob,

of course you are right, preventing attacks with e.g. Verapamil is surely much better than suffering and treating attacks.

Lidocaine is an underrated and undervalued acute treatment, I think. The possible side effects are minimal compared to Imitrex (Sumatriptan) or Zomig (Zolmitriptan)and for some people it seems to work much faster than Imitrex or Zomig, if it is applied in the correct way as described by Barré and others. Also lidocaine is much cheaper than triptanes and can be used a couple of times per day.

Oxygen of course has no side effects at all, but it seems to take longer to work and it is more difficult to carry than a little bottle of lidocaine.

Literature list with PubMed links about Lidocaine and cluster headache:

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( The headings are in German, but all the literature is in English! )

About lidocaine see also: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Cluster Headache News: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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Altma

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Re: Naprosyn and Lidocaine Drops
Reply #16 - Jul 20^th, 2008 at 11:54pm

Just a little update from me on the use of these.. No dice. Lidocaine kinda numbed up the back of my nose, but since my nose runs when I get hit, it kinda ran down the back of my throat too.. which tasted horrible and numbed the back of my throat. No much relief. The Naproxen completely useless.. didn't help a bit. I tried some monster energy drink as I've seen some people try it... and that might have helped.. I'm not entirely sure, I think I had it abort one the other day, but only 1 out of 9 tries..

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