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Bob P

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #25 - Dec 29^th, 2008 at 7:36am

Quote:

but 15 LPM is a must!

Not so! Rozen's paper says 7-10 lpm is effective for most. I get by fine at 8 lpm. May want to suggest to start at 15 lpm and step backward on the flow until the lowest effective flow rate is reached. O2 therapy can do damage, no need to over do it (why take 1000mg of verap when 480mg works).

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« Last Edit: Dec 29^th, 2008 at 7:37am by Bob P »

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!"

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Racer1_NC CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline "Well, let's go see." Posts: 4417 Lewisville, NC Gender:	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #26 - Dec 30^th, 2008 at 8:47pm Bob P wrote on Dec 29^th, 2008 at 7:36am: Quote: but 15 LPM is a must! O2 therapy can do damage, no need to over do it (why take 1000mg of verap when 480mg works). Supporting studies? Links?
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Marc

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #27 - Dec 30^th, 2008 at 9:12pm

I've become a big fan of very high flow O2. Since getting a 25LPM regulator, I’m finding that I can abort much faster. Bob and I have discussed this before and I can't argue with his (and other people) success at lower flow rates. As you know Bob is a big guy, but 8 LPM works for him.

You can Google Dr. Rozens study and find it published all over the place, but also refers to Kudrow’s study.
Here is one example:

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All studies aside, I'll stick with what I know works for me without trying too hard to understand it! My simplistic, yet pure perspective.....

Marc

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« Last Edit: Dec 30^th, 2008 at 9:13pm by Marc »

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Racer1_NC CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline "Well, let's go see." Posts: 4417 Lewisville, NC Gender:	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #28 - Dec 30^th, 2008 at 9:16pm Hi Marc.... Wasn't questioning an 8lpm abort......was wondering about the "damage" claim. What ever works for the individual is ok by me. 25lpm is manna from heaven for me. I can't breath @ 8. B
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Marc

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #29 - Dec 30^th, 2008 at 9:36pm

Agreed.

I've never seen a clear statement of any potential damage with short duration (15-20 minutes) use. I've only been able to find rather oblique references to “no problem for otherwise healthy people” I too would like to know.

I’ve read quite a bit about the dangers of very long term usage – like over 20 hours.

I didn't intend to answer on Bob's behalf - just throwing my 2 cents in world where pennies are worthless!

Marc

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« Last Edit: Dec 30^th, 2008 at 9:38pm by Marc »

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Bob P

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #30 - Dec 31^st, 2008 at 7:37am

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Appropriate levels of oxygen are vital to support cell respiration. High blood and tissue levels of oxygen can be helpful or damaging, depending on circumstances. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy is the use of high levels of oxygen for treatment of specific diseases. High levels of oxygen given to infants causes blindness by promoting overgrowth of new blood vessels in the eye obstructing sight. This is Retinopathy of prematurity (ROP). Administration of high levels of oxygen in patients with severe emphysema and high blood carbon dioxide reduces respiratory drive, which can precipitate respiratory failure and death.

Oxygen first aid specifically refers to the use of oxygen in a first aid setting. Oxygen will assist patients with myocardial infarction and hypoxia (low blood oxygen levels). Care needs to be exercised in patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, especially in those known to retain carbon dioxide (type II respiratory failure) who lose their respiratory drive and accumulate carbon dioxide if administered oxygen in moderate concentration. For this reason, some jurisdictions require medical approval for all emergency oxygen administration.

From Rosen's paper:

Quote:

However, prior to initiating this therapy, patients must obtain clearance from their primary care physician since serious lung disease and other conditions can make oxygen therapy unsafe or inappropriate.

From Surgeryencyclopedia.com:

Quote:

Oxygen is not addictive and causes no side effects when used as prescribed. Complications from oxygen therapy used in appropriate situations are infrequent. Respiratory depression, oxygen toxicity ( Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

), and absorption atelectasis are the most serious complications of oxygen overuse.

A physician should be notified and emergency services may be required if the following symptoms develop:

frequent headaches
anxiety
cyanotic (blue) lips or fingernails
drowsiness
confusion
restlessness
slow, shallow, difficult, or irregular breathing
Oxygen delivery equipment may present other problems. Perforation of the nasal septum as a result of using a nasal cannula and non–humidified oxygen has been reported. In addition, bacterial contamination of nebulizer and humidification systems can occur, possibly leading to the spread of pneumonia. High-flow systems that employ heated humidifiers and aerosol generators, especially when used by patients with artificial airways, also pose a risk of infection.

This is reall y just nit picking though, the point is why use more than you have to.

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« Last Edit: Dec 31^st, 2008 at 8:00am by Bob P »

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!"

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thebbz Ex Member	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #31 - Dec 31^st, 2008 at 10:39pm I agree Bob, I can somewhat tell when it's going to be a monster, in which case I use higher flow rates. Shadows and light hits don't deserve 25 lpm, I may need that for the big ones. 10 or even less for the minor quakes. Man am I cheap the bb
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kiritz

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #32 - Jan 1^st, 2009 at 11:03am

A problem with Rozen's link is that it suggests that if triptans are appropriate for a sufferer, oxygen won't be necessary. But oxygen is a good first-line approach even when triptans can be used. Oxygen is much cheaper, firstly. Also, you can alternate the approaches to aborting attacks, or try oxygen first. I wouldn't my doc to think that if I had no heart problems I should go with the triptans and skip oxygen.

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kiritz

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #33 - Jan 1^st, 2009 at 11:04am

A problem with Rozen's link is that it suggests that if triptans are appropriate for a sufferer, oxygen won't be necessary. But oxygen is a good first-line approach even when triptans can be used. Oxygen is much cheaper, firstly. Also, you can alternate the approaches to aborting attacks, or try oxygen first. I wouldn't my doc to think that if I had no heart problems I should go with the triptans and skip oxygen.

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donoholdt

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #34 - Nov 4^th, 2009 at 4:34pm

This is the first time I've had O2 and I feel like I've finally found an answer. After reading what others say, however, I have some questions. When I breathe in, should I hold it before I exhale? Are there any side effects? Will my body adjust to the treatments and begin to require more? The first few times it only took about 2 minutes before the Beast retreated. Now it's taking up to 10 minutes, and even then, sometimes I have to take a 10-minute break, as recommended by others, and go back to it. It's the best treatment I've found since I couldn't use Sansert anymore. One more thing: We're flying to New Zealand in a couple of weeks and have been told I can't take O2 on the plane with me. What am I going to do? I can't go 19 hours without O2. Suggestions?

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Marc

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #35 - Nov 4^th, 2009 at 7:43pm

For ME, the more I can hyper ventilate, the faster and more effectively it works.

For ME that means 45+ lpm to start, then tapering down to a normal breathing rate after 3-4 minutes.

At 15 lpm, O2 is close to worthless for ME.

I gave up on O2 because "it didn't work for me" - I get angry with myself for suffering soooo many needless hours of agony - because I didn't listen to the folks telling me that I just needed more.

Now, I never have to suffer a real headbanger if my O2 is in reach. THAT gives me my life back.

Marc

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thebbz Ex Member	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #36 - Nov 5^th, 2009 at 3:14pm Quote: One more thing: We're flying to New Zealand in a couple of weeks and have been told I can't take O2 on the plane with me. What am I going to do? I can't go 19 hours without O2. Suggestions? Thats what Trex is for. Maybe lobby the airline for a medical exception? the bb
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Brew

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #37 - Nov 5^th, 2009 at 3:48pm

Quote:

One more thing: We're flying to New Zealand in a couple of weeks and have been told I can't take O2 on the plane with me. What am I going to do? I can't go 19 hours without O2. Suggestions?

Thats what Trex is for. Maybe lobby the airline for a medical exception?
the bb

A pressurized O2 tank is a potential bomb waiting to go off. I know of no airline that will allow you to bring a pressurized tank onboard.

They may let you bring a battery-powered concentrator, or they may give you access to the on-board O2 they carry with them. Give them a call. But pressurized tanks are off limits.

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"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand

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thebbz Ex Member	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #38 - Nov 5^th, 2009 at 5:46pm Brew is correct. This has come up numerous times and indications are no they won't allow any pressurized containers of any kind...bic lighter.
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Clustermom CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 12 Texas Gender:	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #39 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 9:23am How after can you use the oxygen? My son has had 4 attacks within 4 hours? So he has used the oxygen @12 lpm, then @ the same tapering off to @8 for 15-20 min a time, is that ok?
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Potter Ex Member	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #40 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:37am It's fine. Potter
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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #41 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 11:23am I agree with Potter. I'm also amazed that your son gets relief at that low flow rate.
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LasVegas

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #42 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:44pm

Hi Clustermom,
I am also amazed your son can abort with such low flow rates. The #1 thing to have him understand is to get on the o2 at first onset of an attack, each second truly matters!!! Lower flow rates were common years ago until the discovery that higher flow rates abort faster.

If he had a high flow regulator (25 lpm+) he could abort faster by hyperventilating opposed to just breathing deeply. It is physically impossible to hyperventilate at only 15 lpm or less of a flow rate when using the non-rebreather mask and attached bag.

He also might be able to go longer between attacks if he stayed on the o2 for 5 or 10 minutes after the abort, just at a lower flow rate to breathe normally, while also avoiding wasted o2 from coming out too fast.

There are stores nationwide called Harbor Freight Tools that sell welders regulators for less than $30 bucks and most likely will fit his o2 tank. These regulators offer high flow rates. No prescription required to purchase.

An 8 ounce can of an energy drink containing 1,000 mg of Taurine and 60mg Caffeine (such as Redbull, Rockstar, monster, etc) have been very helpful to many of us when chugged fast without o2, and especially right before o2 therapy.

It sure would have been alot easier if I had a mom around as caring as you when I was a teen or in my 20s. Your son is very blessed to have your sincere support. Wink

-Gregg in Las Vegas

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Wishing everybody at CH.com less pain w/ more productivity in their lives in 2019

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wishbone CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 36 Birmingham, AL Gender:	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #43 - Feb 2^nd, 2015 at 1:00pm Could someone explain to me again the proper breathing technique so as to hyperventilate.
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AussieBrian CH.com Hall of Famer Offline CH - It's all in your head! Posts: 3851 Cairns, Qld, Australia Gender:	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #44 - Feb 2^nd, 2015 at 6:27pm G'day Wishbone. On the left of your screen is a button marked Oxygen Info that may be of help.
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O2HypothalamusEye

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #45 - Sep 18^th, 2016 at 3:48am

What if I don't have a platinum plated no co-pay heath insurance to cover it? I'm like Johnny, I get the K size welding tanks filled for $32 per cylinder at the welding shop, medical O2 is (X5) way too expensive and medicare doesn't cover O2 for any of us CH victims. O2 @ 10-15 LPM is your only salvation from the pain! You already know that drugs are a waste of time if you are a chronic CH sufferer. I have found that the lidocaine nasal spray works really well when the demon hits your eye orbit, my Neurologist gave me a huge bottle of it and it helps a lot when the eye bore gets to drilling. Rock on fellow CH torture victims!

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Peter510

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #46 - Sep 18^th, 2016 at 4:39am

Hey O2......,

Welcome to CH.com.

Have you looked into the D3 Regimen as a preventative? Many of us here are getting great benefits from it.

Read up in section 2 in the link below:

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Someone is always here to answer questions.

Best,

Peter.

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sandnesspeak Ex Member	Re: OXYGEN terms explained Reply #47 - Dec 13^th, 2016 at 12:07am Nice information posted
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DyinInDallas

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #48 - Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 11:24pm

The link to the FAQ in the third post on this page is dead... you can get it at web.archive.org

The Wiki page mentioned above by Bob P about oxygen toxicity is for hyperbaric O2. When you run around an Fi02 of 130 or above, you have a risk of CNS oxygen toxicity, so they use periodic "air breaks" to give your CNS a chance to stabilize (sorry, forgot what the protocol is). It's impossible to get higher than 100 FiO2 breathing off of a mask; that's purely a risk for hyperbaric chambers and SCUBA (nitrox or technical diving). The biggest risk I can see from atmospheric O2 is drying your lungs out, which the O2 humidifier corrects.

Google: "OXTOX: If You Dive Nitrox You Should Know About OXTOX" for the skinny from DAN if you want to know more about oxygen toxicity. Again, little or no risk at atmospheric pressures even with 100% O2.

100% FiO2 in the medical world equals 1 pO2 in the diving world.

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DyinInDallas

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Re: OXYGEN terms explained
Reply #49 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 7:25pm

The attachment shows the relationship between CNS and pulmonary (lung) oxygen toxicity. The vertical graph at left with the 1 mark (1 atmosphere at 100% O2) is the point of interest. This is an older study and they're more conservative nowadays, but the relationship is still reasonably close. You can inhale pure O2 for 5 to 10 hours straight with zero chance of any pulmonary or CNS issues. Your only limit is the size of the tank.

As long as you leave 2 or 3 hours between sessions, repetitive O2 loads don't matter much as the 'half-time' for O2 loading is around 90 minutes. After 3 hours, you're 3/4ths back to 'normal'.

I couldn't find the more recent study data at the National Board of Diving and Hyperbaric Medicine Technology site. I'm pretty sure the current CNS limit drops to around 1.6-2 at the hour mark as there was a verified 'CNS event' with a deco diver at 20 feet on pure O2. The military used to dive pure O2 rebreathers to 50 or 70 feet, but that was in war time and they had an acceptable number of losses...

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