Come on guys....................What do folks hope to achieve with by continuing with this pissing match? People have stated their positions many times already.

Do you REALLY think that you are going to change the other persons opinion? To most of us this seems like:


Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or

Marc

"What do folks hope to achieve with by continuing with this pissing match?"

Marc, fair question. I ask myself the same one; what is to be gained arguing a point against guys who's intellectual plateaus seem to top out at quotes from Quackwatch and how to use smiley faces playing violins.

I think the definition of internet troll is one who posts inflammatory posts, just to distract or derail a discussion.

As honestly as I can say it, I can only see two reasons I'm still here.

One, I have a personal experience that has helped me over the long term, that, if anyone looks at the header, I wondered if anyone else had tried. Three question marks in the header, I'm not trying to sell anything. As they say in the new visitor page, start out by asking a question. I have no ulterior motives, can't make a penny out of it, but
if anyone was interested, I thought I'd throw it out there. With 1600 readers in a bit over a week, even the resident genius's have to admit at least there's interest. Some readers are actually curious and supportive, and we're trying to get something together that might present a more scientific, presentation for them. God forbid, after this is all over, that I might help even one CH sufferer.

Second, and certainly not a noble reason, is that when someone attacks my ideas, or me, I will fight back with anything I have to fight with. Anyone with integrity, who believes in what they are saying, would do no less, at least that's how I was brought up.

I don't know, maybe also, this banter is therapeutic, put that down as reason 2 1/2.

Funny, but they'd attack me if I just faded off and let it be, they already have. They attack me if I defend my ideas, usually not adding to any dialog, just the type of comments that sadly troll up this whole thread, the ass, hooey, fraud, utterly predictable, blah blah smiley faced  ilk of comment.

I do scratch my head. The last post suggests I check clusterbusters.com, do my work. That's what I have to wade through.

I've been following the Harvard experiments for years, the field since the early 70's from it's flow from serious to "junk" science. Leary didn't do us any favors. Just my guess, but I was probably researching CH when this poster was researching his diapers. Nothing against being young, if you know what to do with it. He uses the word ass a few times. I could use the same word in a crafted response, what's the use?

Anyway, these CB.Com experiments, O2, most drugs and the like have been addressed many times, by many people. I know, I checked the historical posts before I started this post.

The only seemingly unique thing I had in my personal experience to share with "the most caring, compassionate, supportive family of cluster headache sufferers" (off the home page) was my twenty years with AK.

At this point I am only surprised by two things. Surprised that so few people have ever tried it, and surprised that a small group who have never tried it, are instant experts. I know the idea of trying to dial in your diet, and readjust all the muscles and body functions that CH whacks is heretical, and can't possibly help Ch in any way, but I am still waiting for the detractors to share their Curriculae Vitae with us. To be so certain of themselves, I'm curious what post graduate studies they attended after they got their MD's; their Board certifications will be a good guide so I can get off my butt, down to the library and read all the scholarly papers they have published in their trade Journals.

Such a talented group en masse, we are so lucky to have them on this thread.

O well, ask me an honest question, I'll give you an honest answer, as best I can.

Can't guarantee you'll like it, but at least I won't adorn it with smiley faces and clip art quotes, PROMISE!

Damn, 3:10 in the morning, one of those nights, maybe tomorrow will be better.

Good Night, hopefully,

Chris

Kevin_M wrote on Dec 14^th, 2008 at 6:18pm:


And that's what it was, whatever you can fabricate to get you through the moment.  That you've displayed.



fly gas wrote on Dec 15^th, 2008 at 3:15am:




1.  To see more and more of your own juvenile, exaggerated, taunting antics that have been addressed previously.


 
2.  And this:

fly gas wrote on Dec 15^th, 2008 at 3:15am:







fly gas wrote on Dec 15^th, 2008 at 3:15am:


I do not think the definition or designating of troll is your's to make.

Typical little slurs, not addressing any part of the argument, thank you Doctors. Again, what again are your qualifications? You read about it where?

Victim? From the likes of you guys? Oh my god, grow up, you overestimate your own importance, easy to do. Naw, no one can really believe that; just pulling my leg, eh guy? Good One! Witty retort, one of many.

Troll? I didn't first use the term in this thread. Sort of an oxymoron when suggested against the person who started the thread, but maybe I'm wrong. Let the readers or administrators judge. Then again, read your last post(s). If the shoe fits.......

Funny, just described an English book, no date prob 1907, where the author goes on in depth where the flights of the Wright Brothers must be totally discounted to those of (ex pat Brazilian living in UK) Santos Dumont, because he had not read the studies and record reports that support their claims.

I don't know, maybe this logic travels over the generations, like John Handcock, a good movie by the way. Maybe its in the genes.

There's so much else I'd rather talk about. Is there any correlation to combat service and CH? Three of us in the Vet's M/C had clusters, the mathematical odds are staggering against that in the general random population.  A la, Clusterbusters, are there any studies that look at a REVERSE correlation between hallucinogenic use and the ultimate emergence of CH? Has anyone out there ever had an allergy screening from an MD or immunologist while in episode. If allergies were found, especially molds, given the seasonal nature of some episodes, were there any results?

I remember after months out on the line, i used to be able to pick flies out of the air, every single time. There was a lot I'd rather be doing, but there I was, picking flies out of mid air. Maybe life is just a series of repetitive cycles.

Whatever, wishing you all a PF,

chris

Good question, some are, some are not, 1700 lookers though..
Not to worry, not required reading, plenty of other threads out there, and there will NOT be a test on it in the morning.

and then...3-6-9 the goose drank wine, the monkey chewed tobacco on the street car line, the line broke, the monkey got choked and they all went to heaven in a little row boat.....and then...

Rolo,
Troll post 91, and on:

"You can pretty much count on the fact that if someone has been here several years they aren't simply trolls or hanger's on, looking for fight. "

I know, don't try to confuse things with the black and white truth, screws up some really otherwise convincing arguments.

I'm a balloonist, good with downdrafts, 20 cans in the fridge bring it on.

short 'nuff?

I'm with Michael (Wildhaus) on this one: don't wanna participate but HAVE to see what happens next lol.
It's like a soap, and I don't even like soaps.

But keep going guys, I'm enjoying every minute of it.

For those opposed to alternative medicine, have been doing some research, and there is a parallel path to AK, done by 100% Doctor, board certified, practitioners.

There are a scarce few papers filed on AK/Chiro and CH, but almost all have one thing in common on reported relief, ergo, the resetting of the plates in the skull, maxiofacial work, also working on the mandible and spine.

Low and behold, Osteopaths are reporting success with parallel methods. Osteopathic medicine can be practiced with a PhD, or at a perhaps higher level, by an MD, with specific training, residency requirements, and board certification, ergo, standard medicine.

The second half of my treatment, dietary/allergy, can also be done by MD's, there are many who can test for diet deficiencies and for allergies.

A lot of the discussions on CH cycle remission, go around diet, magnesium supplements, red bull, herbal cocktails and the like, and many people report some efficacy thus. It occurs that perhaps, some of these courses might add elements to the diet that are lacking, and trace minerals especially, are getting a lot of play in all medicine of late, pro and con.

Likewise, there is a lot of discussion that head trauma might be casually, or specifically related to CH, something I suspect is true in a number of cases, up to 24% in the CH.com survey. Also, the identification of enlarged brain section in CH sufferers, specifically the gray matter to the CH side, does pose a question that a shift in the plates of the skull, along with other factors, might be a part of  CH.

Anyway, as disclaimer, this has nothing to do with individual headache relief, more with breaking a cycle, so huff, swallow those pills and do whatever gets you through the night. As with any course of CH action, might work for some, not for others.

Still, if you read the CH.com survey, follow my logic here. For 37 years, hot showers have been my only near 100% source of relief for cluster headaches. If you look at the survey numbers, only 3% of reportees say hot showers are a source of primary relief. Thus, if I asked, I could have 32 perfectly honest people say hot showers have provided them no relief, and in the case of some, I would be castigated for even suggesting them and giving people a false sense of hope.

Still, if I listened to any of them, I would be out in the cold, denied the one source of relief that has kept me sane over the years.

Most of us are adults here, and can make up our own minds. I'd say two things. One, hit on google and read the same papers I have, see if they make sense. Next, next visit to your MD or Neurologist, maybe print off a few of the articles and ask him/her if it makes sense to at least try this path. To the best of my knowledge, it does not preclude ANY current course of action or treatment that is helping you through your CH. Standard insurance should cover the treatments if you get a referral, and the worst thing that could happen, is that you get your head checked, and might end up with a healthier diet.

Again, if you already have something that handles your cycles, God Bless, and stay with it. If you are one of the 3%'ers like I am, I only offer this as one more possible line of relief among the many others discussed on CH.com.

It has worked for me now 22 years, or given the vagarity of CH and cycles, I THINK it has worked for me, every time, every cycle for 22 years.

Whatever you do, don't put all your eggs into one basket. Me, I just got a script for Testosterone blood work, plus TSH, lipids and the whole match, and am thinking about renewing old friendships and seeing if anyone out there still sells lsd, both are really interesting OTHER courses of action.

PFD's to all of you, however you get them.

Best,

Chris

The first time I tried AK, my headaches stopped right after the third visit, this after over a ten month cycle with frequent 8-10's, 6-8 a day. For 22 years now, after 17 years of 4-10 month cycles with many ten's; with AK, my longest cycle has been approx 7 weeks, with no tens, occasional 8's, but usually headaches in the 3-6 range. In this range, individual headaches are handled by Oxygen, Relpax and hot showers, and remembering my past history and the ten's and no relief from nothing, I am happy beyond words with AK.

That being said, I realize everyone won't be helped by AK, also that just like doctors, there are less that excellent practitioners of AK, Osteopathy, neurology, chiropractice and any medical practice. My primary advice is to choose ANY practitioner with care, if a practitioner isn't schooled in CH, compassionate and effective a/o agressive in your treatment, drop them and move on, and leave no stone unturned until you get relief.

What struck me with all that I've been reading on AK/Osteopathy and the like, is the common thread on the skull plates and the jaw. My AK doctor this cycle, zeroed in on my skull first visit, did some ouchy adjustments, and so far, this has been a pussycat episode compared to any of my past ones.

Again, I don't suggest anyone go out and jump into any of this. I do suggest that it might be worth a look, and if warranted, a discussion with any health practitioner they trust may be in order.

Especially if insurance covers it, the downside risk is negligible, stay with all meds and treatments you are on, and the upside, maybe only for a few of us, is significant.

Mrs Deej wrote on Dec 15^th, 2008 at 12:28pm:


Fly dude...You wait almost a month and start all over again. Did you not see what Steph said? Your point has been made.

Is this a new topic?

If so, one traditionally begins a new thread.  If not, what purpose is served by revisiting a topic that has been thoroughly explored?  I see no good reason for this resurrection. 

Best,

George