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Peter B CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 70 Boston, MA Gender:	ever have a bad shadow? Aug 31^st, 2010 at 10:09pm did you ever have a bad shadow - in that there is no CH pain, but a lot of soreness in the back of the head and very strong photophobia (and audiophobia?)? Just curious....
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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #1 - Aug 31^st, 2010 at 11:47pm

You've got a headache in the back of the head there. That isn't CH. Sounds more like a mild migraine to me. Most CH'ers don't have issues with photophobia or audiophobia. That tends to be more of a migraine issue. That is not to say however that NO clusterhead deals with either, because some do. It is not common however.

Jerry

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #2 - Sep 1^st, 2010 at 8:33am

sucks for me....photophobia and audiophobia have always come with my cluster headaches. And I've been positvely diagnosed with CH for at least 20 years.

I had never noticed the soreness in the back of the head (around the bones behind each ear) until my new neurologist asked about it and noded sagely. That's where he performed my occipital nerve block. Go figure.

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Callico CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Author of "Stranded at Romson's Lodge Posts: 4916 Aurora IL Gender:	Re: ever have a bad shadow? Reply #3 - Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 12:11am The occipital nerves are found in the back of the head. How they affect CH I don't understand, but somehow they do. Jerry
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Joni CH.com Old Timer Offline Knowledge is Power Posts: 476 Gender:	Re: ever have a bad shadow? Reply #4 - Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:19am Nope, never had that.
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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #5 - Sep 2^nd, 2010 at 1:50pm

Likely it's tension of your trapezious muscles in relation to your CH. Your traps run down from mid back up and long your shoulders and then up your neck and attach to some connective tissue at the base of your skull (where you're describing the pain). The connective tissue then runs over the top and side of your head and attaches at your forehead.

If the traps are tight (with overwork or stress) you can gets what's called a tension headache as they pull on their connections and that connective tissue. The pain is often felt in the back or crown of the head and/or in the forehead often as a aching pressure feeling.

Heat pack, massage, relaxation exercises over the shoulders and neck may help.

and, man, if you can't be stressed over CH, what can you be stressed about?!

Just my 2cents!

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #6 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 8:09am

You can have CHs and migraine or tension headaches at the same time, or on and off at different times. One unfortunately does not exclude the other. But it's important to note (for reasons of proper abortives) that CHs are not typically affected by light or sound, while other headache types are. So...if what you describe is kicked off by a cluster, or concomitant with one, what works to abort the cluster probably will not abort the tension or stress or migraine headache. This has been my experience. After several rounds of KIP 7+ hits, I will get a pretty bad "normal" headache. So...I learn to treat both. Hope this helps! Also, keep in mind, when we say shadow we really mean a low level Cluster. Pressure, low pain, but with the potential to build and will respond to our routine abortives. Blessings! lance

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #7 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 9:39am

Lace makes an excellent point, it's JUST terminology, but when it comes to treatments, the difference becomes important. A shadow has all the characteristics of a CH, without the intense pain, and genrally will respond to the same treatments a ch will, 02 etc.

Identifying WHAT this secondary headache is will lead you towards an effective treatment. Definitely worth getting back to the neuro to see what the secondary diagnosis is.

Joe

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #8 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 3:42pm

Peter B wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 10:09pm:

did you ever have a bad shadow - in that there is no CH pain, but a lot of soreness in the back of the head and very strong photophobia (and audiophobia?)?

Just curious....

Ever check the barometric pressure when you get a headache like this? Could be a pressure headache.

Often when there is a barometric pressure change of .02 or more either up or down this can cause those susceptible to them to get a barometric pressure headache.

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Hot cloth or hot shower to the back of the neck will often relieve some of the pain unfortunately these is not always successful, but are worth a try.

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #9 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 4:14pm

Peter B wrote on Aug 31^st, 2010 at 10:09pm:

did you ever have a bad shadow - in that there is no CH pain, but a lot of soreness in the back of the head and very strong photophobia (and audiophobia?)?

Just curious....

I suffer from episodic CH (in remission 4 years) but also migraines - very infrequent. With migraines only I experience both photophobia and audiophobia. With CH, never, not even with shadows.

Shadows, to me are a CH that does not ramp up above a K3 level.

Whatever headache pain/shadow you are experiencing sound more like a migraine than a CH.

Sandy

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Peter B

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #10 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 5:34pm

not that it matters - but in this headache its not painful in the back of the neck, but sore. Only hurts if I press on that spot. Sore in the exact same way that CH shows soreness in that area when I have a proper headache.

As I wrote before I never noticed this soreness in my 20+ years of CH. It was only when my new neurologist asked me if I ever got soreness there that I started looking.

Pretty sure it is not a migraine. Must just be the way the beast treats me Sad

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #11 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 6:43pm

Yes Yes and yes every effing day several times a day since my last cycle ended .

I am one of those people who get photophobick with a ch attack and more often than not with shadows too , people at work have now stopped asking why I wear sun glasses when it's cloudy. Cool

for me a can of red bull will usually see it off , over the counter painkillers are useless even at low kip levels ,so I'm fairly shore this is low kip ch......for me at least any way.

God bless

Nigel

edit oh by the way I don't get audiophobia at any time , in or out if cycle. and only sore behinde the ear on bad shadows.

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« Last Edit: Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 6:46pm by Headache Boy uk »

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Peter B CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 70 Boston, MA Gender:	Re: ever have a bad shadow? Reply #12 - Sep 3^rd, 2010 at 7:50pm Thanks for the reply Headache Boy UK - I will try the RedBull and probably the sunglasses too
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Headache Boy uk CH.com Old Timer Offline Matthew ch 11 v 28 Posts: 373 Mersea Island nr Colchester Gender:	Re: ever have a bad shadow? Reply #13 - Sep 4^th, 2010 at 4:54am Hi Pete Polarised sunnies are best as they cut out the glare God bless Nigel
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kevmd CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Who needs a hypothalamus anyway? Posts: 524 x0\|philadelphia\|USA\|\|0\|0\|PA,Pennsylvania Gender:	Re: ever have a bad shadow? Reply #14 - Sep 7^th, 2010 at 10:06pm I get the back of the head thing as well. mostly during shadows and not the actual CH. Had photphobia just once during the worst CH attack I ever had. Even through up during that one.
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Kate

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #15 - Sep 7^th, 2010 at 10:20pm

I've never noticed soreness at the back of my head during any CH. I'm only photophobic during migraines, which I get when I am not in a cluster cycle. The only exception is that bright, glaring, afternoon sun can set off a CH, but it only sets it off. It does not make me uncomfortable to be in the sun like the photophobia I experience with migraine.

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #16 - Sep 8^th, 2010 at 7:20am

I get photophobic duriing a cycle but only in my right eye, which is the one my headaches affect. When I have shadows, I have one now, my right eye twitches and becomes more senitive to light, I also sometimes have the pressure feelings at the back of my head and neck but I think this is just stress in my shoulders and neck from lack of sleep and being extremely tense. I never get audophobic even during a severe attack but in a bad attack I would rather pace about in a dark room than a bright one.

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« Last Edit: Sep 8^th, 2010 at 7:25am by Gaz Jones »

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Re: ever have a bad shadow?
Reply #17 - Sep 8^th, 2010 at 4:42pm

I get photophobic and audiophobic just before a CH hits (or shadows) and for me it helps as it gives me a little bit extra warning that the CH is about to arrive. Once the CH or shadow has gone I'm no longer photophobic or audiophobic.

My partner is now so in tune with these two symptoms that she knows before I even say anything what is happening just from my body language in reacting to these two phobias.

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