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shooky

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1600 - Dec 1^st, 2013 at 8:08pm

Update: after a second loading dose and two days on 25,000 IU, I'm PF again. I know for a fact that I'm still in active cycle, because an afternoon nap triggered shadows, but after 2 weeks with 1-2 nocturnal hits and frequent shadows during the day (most didn't evolve into attacks due to O2 use) I had 3 days and 2 nights with no attacks.

Also, I decreased my melatonin dose from 10mg to 5mg, after noticing the higher dose made me groggy in the morning. This is pretty different from what I know from previous cycles and to my understanding means my body started naturally producing melatonin again.

That confirms my suspicion, that the D3 mechanism of action may have less to do with it's being anti-inflamatorry and more with hormonal modulation and/or suppression of hypothalamic activity. Another interesting indication: my sensitivity to smells (usually starts weeks before a cycle, and later on becomes a series trigger) has noticeably decreased in the past few days.

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Rumeke CH.com Veteran Offline Posts: 173 Westfield, NC Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1601 - Dec 1^st, 2013 at 8:20pm Whoohoo! Doing the happy dance for you! Hopefully, I'll be dancing with you soon. Judy
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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1602 - Dec 1^st, 2013 at 11:44pm

Hey Shooky,

Great news! I appreciate your comments...

The capacity of vitamin D3 metabolites to down-regulate/suppress production of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) is the leading mechanism of action of the anti-inflammatory regimen in preventing cluster headache... but it's clearly not the only possibility.

Thanks for your observations... They do help...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1603 - Dec 11^th, 2013 at 3:19am

well, I thought ide report in.
I first started the vit regime around june, with confirmation that I was deficient, 52 nmol, second blood test in September I was at 195 nmol.
I was in the middle of a cycle when I started and for me I felt a difference but the cycle still hang around.
ive been on 180 of verapamil from the start, once a day, I tried weening off in October, but the shadows returned within a couple of weeks. im now weening off verapamil now, and hopefully I can stand alone on the vit regime.
I really need to get blood tested again, but have missed the boat with getting a doctors app before xmas.
I haven't taken an imigran tablet since end of july yahoo
I have had consistant shadows over this time and ive simply sculled a redbull and rode it out, the worst has been probably a kip 3. last week for about 5 days I was getting woken up 2-4 times a night, with what I was sure would ramp up to a biggy, but either swigging a red bull or an ice cold glass of water would kill it in no more than 5 minutes.
I played around a bit, and doubled my fish oil intake from 1500mg to 3000 mg and it had an immediate effect on my night time wake up shadows.
there's some times I sit there, getting that flushed, hot feeling, but no cluster attack.
December and January are my danger times, as last year this is when it started again, so im cautiously riding this wave and will report back afterwards and let you know how ive gone.
all I can say is, if what ive experienced over the last 3 to 4 months is a result of the vit regime, with minor shadows etc, continues, then I will be one very very happy little camper !!!!!!
I know its made a difference, and im strictly sticking with all the co factors and hoping ive found that sweet spot...

kindest regards
colin

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1604 - Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:09am

Hey Colin,

Thanks for the update. Omega-3 is kind of a sleeper in the anti-inflammatory regimen... but it's a very important part of it due to it's anti-inflammatory properties. It also helps vitamin D3 absorption.

A shadow is still a cluster headache so if you continue to have them... you can also "tune" this regimen by upping the vitamin D3 dose by 5,000 IU/day and watch what happens to your shadows. Your average target 25(OH)D serum concentration should be 212 nmol/L and the extra vitamin D3 will help to get you there and keep you there.

Take care and thanks again for the update.

V/R, Batch

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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1605 - Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:12am Colin that's great news, hopefully you'll catch me at 3.5 years pain free, it's been a beautiful thing. Joe
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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1606 - Dec 12^th, 2013 at 2:04am

thanks batch, yes ive been that busy ive missed the time to get another blood test and an appointment at the doctor, which would tell me exactly where I am. as mentioned, ive felt that this cycle never really ended, so that's nearly 8 months long. but the severe hits finished in septemberish. im currently taking 10,000 vit d but when ive had shadows periodically ive bumped it up to 15-20,000 for a couple of days, then gone back to the 10,000 dose.
so I guess, after my danger months, jan and feb i'll have a real good indication of how im going.
I guess the regime might work differently for some people, I play with the volumes of calcium and magnesium depending on my diet. but upping the fish oil certainly had an instant result with my night time shadows.
i'll be off verapamil in the next few days, so im really testing things out now lol
cant stress enough to people trying the regime, stick with it for the long term, it didn't kill the cycle I was having when I started, but its having an effect now, have faith
joe, 3.5 years, that is so brilliant !!!
that's life changing, great news.

kindest regards
colin

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shooky

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1607 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:37pm

An update:

I'm 5 days PF now which is the longest I've been since October. Had three weeks of a strange pattern in which I was PF for 2-3 days, than had 2-4 days with 1-2 night attacks and several daily attacks or constant shadows.

What seem to have finally killed this lingering cycle (I hope...): 10 days ago I started taking 10mg Amitrptyline (Elavil) with my melatonin (6-8mg). Such a tiny dose should have little effect if any, but I could see a real change right away and had 3 nights and days that were 100% PF. During these 3 days I went from 25,000 IU D3 to 20, than 15 than 10. Than had 2 nights with attacks. So I went strait back to 20,000 IU and am PF since - 5 PF days. Or actually 5 PF nights and 6 almost-PF days (have some shadows).

5 Weeks ago my OH25 results were 67ng/ml, and since than I was mostly on 20-25,000 iu daily, so I guess I'm somewhere around 100ng/ml now. Hope to get a new test soon.

Anyhow, although the regimen didn't make me PF right away and did not prevent me from going into cycle, it did seem to have made this one of my less painful cycles. Most of my attacks were KIP 3-5, easily abortable with O2 + an energy drink here and there. That's a huge change compared to last year's cycle in which I had many KIP7+ hits and had to use Prednisone.

Also, this happens after 5-6 years in which my cycles were getting longer and harder.

So I do feel lucky.

PF night everybody!

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1608 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 9:00pm

Hey Shooky,

Thanks for the update. Building serum 25(OH)D can take time, even with vitamin D3 doses higher than 10,000 to 15,000 IU/day as you've already found out.

What really counts is not so much the vitamin D3 dose, but rather the resulting 25(OH)D serum concentration. Make it a point to get your's checked as soon as possible. Knowing the 25(OH)D serum concentration that keeps you pain free will come in handy next time around.

We've a growing number of ECH'ers who have stayed on this regimen year-round... while out of cycle and sailed through their usual cycle period pain free.

10,000 IU/day is a great year-round maintenance dose for most CH'ers and it should keep most of them at a 25(OH)D serum concentration close to 80 ng/mL... Some of us require a little less and some a little more... It just takes a timely 25(OH)D lab test to find out...

There are a number of benefits to 25(OH)D lab tests beyond what's been discussed above...

Walking your PCP or neurologist down the path to Ding Dong School or close to the clue bird about the anti-inflammatory regimen might just help the next CH'er that walks in to his or her office wondering what to try next...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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sue_g

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1609 - Dec 24^th, 2013 at 4:57pm

sue_g wrote on Nov 27^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Hi Batch and all!
Well here's a brief recap: Started Regimen Mid Sept.
Sept 25 - 86 nmol/L
Oct 11 - 170 "
Nov 8 - 373 "
PF now no break thru's since Nov 22nd, (whooohoo! lol, something to dance about eh)
Here's the scoop with the intake of D3
- Was doing 25,000/daily
- Week of Nov 10th: deceased D3 to 15,000/daily
- Week of Nov 17th: deceased D3 to 6,000/daily and continuing.

I have a neuro appointment Jan 6th, I'd like him to get on board with this... yeah, I know... we'll see.

Appreciate your thoughts, as always!! Your the best, Thanks again! Happy Thanksgiving to you mate Wink

Sue

First off, I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas! And Happy Holidays!
I don't expect a reply until after the holidays, but I'd like to post my December 18th results.

After the high results Nov 8th, I dropped my D3 to 15,000/day for one week, until Nov 16th.

Continued at 6000/day for 3 weeks, adding Calcium to my regimen on the fourth week, with an additional 2000 D3 (4th wk - 8000/day into the 5th week).
Dec 18 (5th wk) at lower dose, results are:
25(OH)D 155nmol/L
PTH 3.1
Incorrect Ionized Cal 1.22
Correct Ionized Cal 1.21

My suspicions were correct, I dropped to far down. Embarrassed

But in saying that, I'm CH free! So, all is good

As of Dec 23rd, I've increased my D3 intake to 10,000/day and plan on staying at this level for at least another month.

I'd like to know your opinion Batch, after you enjoy the holiday season. Also, if you could tell me how the PTH and Ionized Cal level looks, I'd appreciate it greatly.

All the Best to you all, praying for all of you to be Pain Free. Take care, Sue

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1610 - Dec 26^th, 2013 at 7:38pm

Hey Sue,

Thank you for the wonderful feedback. It's a perfect tutorial on the pharmacokinetics of vitamin D3 and the 25(OH)D response to dose of vitamin D3.

Hope you and yours had a wonderful pain free Christmas and here's to a Happy New Year.

Good questions... I'll address the vitamin D3 dose first. When it comes to vitamin D3 requirements, the experts say a dose of 5,000 to 7,000 IU/day should result in 90% of the people taking it having a 25(OH)D serum concentration of at least 60 ng/mL.

Under perfect conditions, this same dose of vitamin D3 should keep 90% of CH'ers who respond to the anti-inflammatory regimen pain free... Unfortunately, we rarely encounter perfect conditions...

Our immune system's T-Cells are major consumers of 25(OH)D. The presence of viral, bacterial and allergy inducing antigens trigger T-Cells into rapid cell division resulting in an army of millions of Pac-Man-like white cell eating machines roaming around our body gobbling up the offending antigens.

The simple fact of life is we're exposed to these antigens all the time so our immune system is constantly responding. Where we CH'ers run into trouble is when we're exposed new strain or a massive inoculation of antigens not previously experienced...

This triggers an even more vigorous immune response that consumes even more 25(OH)D. When that happens, 25(OH)D levels will drop to the point where they're incapable of preventing CH... so we get hit!

As a side note, infections and allergies aren't the only source of inflammation... Trauma, surgery, broken bones also result in inflammation that triggers an immune response...

10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 results in 90% of the CH'ers taking it achieving a 25(OH)D serum concentration of at least 80 to 85 ng/mL, (200 to 212 nmol/L).

This buys us sufficient 25(OH)D reserves to fight off most viral and bacterial infections without compromising the CH preventative capacity. All this happens automatically with no symptoms of infection. In short, we never knew it happened.

However, when we do start experiencing symptoms of an infection like an upper or lower respiratory viral infection, i.e., a cold, flu or allergic reaction... our immune system has been overrun by a new strain of antigens so it goes into a major immune response that drains our 25(OH)D reserves... and we get hit.

This is why I suggest another 25(OH)D lab test, doubling the daily maintenance dose of vitamin D3 from 10,000 IU/day to 20,000 IU/day and to add a 50,000 IU loading dose once a week at the first symptom of a cold or the flu. It wouldn't hurt to bump the daily magnesium intake from 400 mg/day to 500 or 600 mg/day...

Maintain this dosing schedule with all the other supplements and vitamin D3 cofactors until the cold or flu symptoms have cleared completely. At that point drop back to the maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day.

Serum calcium and PTH (Parathyroid Hormone). This gets a bit more complicated... but for starters, the lab results for your serum concentrations of calcium and PTH are right in the middle of their respective normal reference ranges... i.e., perfect with no signs of vitamin D3 intoxication...

The following graphic illustrates the relationship between serum calcium and PTH and the role they play in calcium homeostasis...

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When serum calcium is at the low end of its normal reference range, chemo receptors in the parathyroid glads detect the low serum calcium concentration and this triggers production of the parathyroid hormone, PTH elevating its serum concentration.

PTH in turn stimulates the kidneys to metabolize 25(OH)D produced by the liver, into 1,25(OH)2D3, the active hormonal metabolite of vitamin D3. The extra 1,25(OH)2D3 pulls addition calcium from the gut raising the serum calcium concentration which in turn lowers the production of PTH in the parathyroid.

The actual mechanism of action in metabolizing 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3 involves the enzyme 1-a-25-Hydroxilase which adds an [OH^-] radical to the 1-a-25 position on the 25(OH)D molecule...

Hope this answers the mail... Have a happy New Year.

V/R, Batch

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sue_g

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1611 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 9:21am

Good Morning Batch!
And it is a great morning... I really am sooo grateful for your help & support. I find if I think about it to long, I get quite teary eye'd..

Anyways, enough of that! I hope you and your family enjoyed Christmas holiday and cheers to our new year ahead!

Thank you for your comments, I'm feeling very positive about this regimen & will continue to monitor it carefully. I'll be honest, I can't say I totally understand the complete chemistry of this regimen as science was my weakest class. hah! But I will learn as I go along.

I've been episodic for 28 years now, but my cycles have changed over the years. The CH's seem to immune to a "drug", then it was time to move on to another drug... This year was the worst, I knew it was time to slow down and look what was happening to my condition, thanks to you all here...I feel so much better.

My question is, I'd like to know what are the chances of episodic going chronic? I here this happens sometimes.. Although, I think its the "pharmacical drugs" that could be the cuprits.
I believe diet and general lifestyle also plays a role.

One other question for you... My husband and I are off to the sunny south for one week end of January. Do you have any suggestions how to monitor my D3 intake.
Common sense tells me short intervals exposed to the sun without sunblock, then protection for the rest of the day. Although, hoping to enjoy a few cold ones as well Wink

.

Reviewing your comments;

Sun's UVB at midday, can generate 10-15,000 I.U. of Vit D3 in as little as 15 minutes.

Therefore would you suggest I would need to keep an eye of how much sunlight I am exposed to daily? I'm just not sure how this vacation will affect my daily D3 regimen
Thanks in advance Batch.. Smiley

Anyways, I wanted to get back to you before we bring in the New Year, to thank you for all you do!

Thank you for the Administrator's here and all the dedicated supporters of this site. Smiley

Wishing the best to you all for a Pain Free 2014.
Sue xxoo

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1612 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 2:29pm

Hey Sue,

Good morning and Happy New Year you too! Once again you've got some great questions.

I don't know why some episodic CH'ers become chronic. It happened to me. I was episodic and regular as clockwork with my cycles starting in April and lasting 6 to 8 weeks in duration until 2004. That cycle never ended.

In May of 2005, my neurologists at NIH got in a huddle, did a kabuki dance, then pronounced that I was chronic... Big deal... I already knew that.

The best information on this topic comes from the survey of 1134 cluster headache sufferers many of us took part in that was conducted by Dr. Todd Rozen and Royce Fishman in 2008:

[19] How would you describe the evolution/status of your cluster
headache?             Respondents: 1134

Started as episodic and stayed episodic 710 (62.61 %)
Started as episodic and became chronic 142 (12.52 %)
Started as chronic and stayed chronic    90 (7.94 %)
Started as chronic and became episodic 55 (4.85 %)
Started as episodic, became chronic, became episodic again 108 (9.52 %)
Started as chronic, became episodic, became chronic again 29 (2.56 %)

Total Responses           1134 (100.00 %)

Regarding changing your dose of vitamin D3 while on travel to sunny climates... I wouldn't change a thing... Our body's have a built-in control mechanism that limits the production of vitamin D3 in the skin when serum 25(OH)D concentrations are up in the range we need to prevent our CH.

My question to you is have you asked your husband to see his PCP for the 25(OH)D lab test... or started him on the anti-inflammatory regimen? The health benefits from vitamin D3 are too numerous to dismiss... and I'll make a SWAG you'd like to have him around as long as possible...

Cheers, take care, have a Happy New Year and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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Tony Only CH.com Junior Offline Ain't Life Grand Posts: 43	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1613 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 8:13am Thanks to Batch and Vitamin D regimen ! I am wishing everyone Happy & Pain Free New Year ! Cheers for more new efficient treatment options available for everyone via awareness in years to come ! Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1614 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 4:14pm Hi Tony, Pleased to read you are feeling better at long last, i'm also on the vitamin D3 regime, and still pain free. thanks for sharing that video with us, amazing. Wishing you a happy, and pain free 2014. Hoppy.
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thierry

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1615 - Jan 8^th, 2014 at 4:51pm

Hi all, first of all I wish to wish everyone a happy new year, may it be a happy, joyful, prosperous and most of all a pain free one.
For me, the last year has been for most of it pain free apart from a few shadows and very few attacks that have not reached a high kip and were kept short, i attribute this to having started on the D3 regimen in around march 2013. Previous to that i was going in to cycles of 3 months long twice a year with Kip 9 or 10 every night as well as some day time attacks. Batch has been an amazing support and has always been willing to answer my questions be they on this or other threads as well as through private messages. Thank you Batch.
I have read a lot -if not all- about the D3 regimen here on this site and it has been a learning curve that i was eager to undertake, especially when i read how much the D3 regimen has helped so many of us.
I have another question to ask as I will be going for an operation on friday to remove 2 back teeth at the bottom of my mouth. The dentist i regularly go to was not able to take them out and after some X-rays it was evident that the only way to remove these problematic teeth, an operation is required. My gums will therefore be cut open in order to reach the roots which are not straight but rather are under other teeth.
I have read here in some posts that it is likely that my body will gobble up my D3 stocks that have accumulated over the last few months as a result of an operation and that it is likely that my D3 levels will drop, maybe to a level which might be below the therapeutic level for D3 to be effective for CH prevention.
I am wondering if anyone could enlighten me on this and what amounts of D3 i should be taking over the next few days/weeks in order to prevent an attack.
Thank you
Thierry

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1616 - Jan 8^th, 2014 at 8:55pm

Hey Thierry,

Good question... I wouldn't change a thing. If you've been taking at least 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and all the other vitamin D3 cofactors in the anti-inflammatory regimen, you should have sufficient 25(OH)D reserves to sail through oral surgery without any problems.

We've gone around the flagpole a few times on taking Omega-3 fish oil prior to elective surgery... Many surgeons want their patients off Omega-3 fish oil for a week to 10 days prior to the surgery due to the possibility of increased bleeding...

I've done a lot of checking and there does not appear to be any consistent or conclusive data from RCTs to support this practice... In fact there are several studies/RCTs that concluded taking Omega-3 fish oil up to 2 to 3 days of surgery had no effect on increased bleeding. See the following study titled:

"Omega-3 and fish oil supplements do not cause increased bleeding during spinal decompression surgery"

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It concluded: "We found no increase in intraoperative blood loss or postoperative bleeding complications associated with preoperative use of n-3FA supplements up to an average of 2.3 days before surgery.

Although further studies are necessary before this finding can be generalized to other types of spinal surgery, our study corroborates findings from investigations in other surgical specialties that suggest preoperative n-3FA is not associated with increased risk of intraoperative and postoperative bleeding."

Another study conducted at UC Davis came to the same conclusion...

"In summary, despite the known inhibition of platelet aggregation, clinically significant bleeding does not increase with the use of n-3 PUFAs (Omega-3 Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids).

Since there is no evidence of harm, and given the implications of cancelling a major operation for both patients and health care systems, it seems prudent to proceed with an elective CABG (Coronary Artery Bypass Graft surgery), in a patient taking fish oil supplements."

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Given the above... The anti-inflammatory regimen should not pose a problem when having a wisdom tooth surgically removed.

My experience with this type of surgery came in my first few years with cluster headaches before diagnosis, when my doctors concluded my headaches were due to an impacted wisdom tooth... Not true as we all know...

That said, the surgical removal of my wisdom tooth made me feel like the Joker in Dark Knight...

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I was pleasantly annesthetised and sneakers up at the time... but it appeared they used a gaff hook to pull the corner of my mouth behind my ear to expose the surgical site...

The only lasting effect of this surgery has been a slight dip in my IQ scores... but that could also be due to the rum... The sun is always over the yardarm in this neck of the woods...

On a lighter note... Since starting the anti-inflammatory regimen over three years ago, the nicks, cuts, and bruises that come from living in the woods cutting fire wood and boat bites that come from racing sail boats... have all healed much faster...

Take care and rest easy my friend...

V/R, Batch

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thierry

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1617 - Jan 10^th, 2014 at 9:16pm

Hey Batch thanks for your reply and advice. Had op this a.m, was a huge and painful job taking out one tooth so the dentist surgeon decided to leave it at one tooth for taday and he'll do the one on the other side another time. My face looks a bit like the pic on your post but just on one side. Feeling a bit light headed and smiling though with the pain killers i've been given -mainly codeine-.
Staying on 10000 D3 as well as the 50000 weekly loading dose, it's working well. I did up that dose to 20000 for a time when i had a sinus infection and i could feel shadows coming, it worked at getting me back PF.
All the best to you and yours.
Thierry

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1618 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 11:38am

Greetings,

My cycle has been going on since the first of November and has recently ramped up making life difficult to say the least.
I had a full blood work done coincidentally at the time the cycle started. PCP said everything looked good except for high triglycerides. Liver function, thyroid, testosterone, etc. was great. My 25(oh)d was 74 ng/ml.
Since I was experiencing symptoms I followed the accelerated dosing schedule for one month. Also trying to elevate my ph through diet/ baking soda trick. I have saliva testing strips, but what should my average daily reading be?

I am taking no other prevents, only the following:

10,000 iu.'s vitamine D3       ( natures bounty)
1400 mg.'s omega3 fish oil (spring valley)
400 mg.'s    mag. citrate    (vitamine shoppe brand)
200 mg.'s    calcium citrate (vitamine shoppe brand)
1 tablet    centrum silver
1 tablet    Cholestoff          (Nature Made)

I've had no colds, flu's, broken bones, aches or pains other than my head. I do smoke cigarettes, not sure if this would have an impact on the regimens effectiveness or not.
At this point, I should be well within the "green zone" as far a D3 levels. I ordered a test kit from ZRT labs 2 weeks ago but Im still waiting. I wanted to wait to post when I had more current results but I'm pretty desperate I guess for something else to try.

Wishing everyone the best!
Eric

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thierry

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1619 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 2:58pm

Hi Erk, sorry to hear that you are going through as bad patch.
I think Batch recommends 2400mg omega 3 fish oils, 500mg calcium and 3000iu vit A as well as the 400mg magnesium that you are taking. He also recommends 10mg zinc, 120mcg vit K2 and 1 mg boron to help the body absorb the D3, are these in the centrum silver?
This regimen is working for me, my life has been transformed since 3 weeks after I started the regimen.
Wishing that you get pain free very soon.
all the best
Thierry

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erk CH.com Junior Offline Posts: 37 bunker hill , west virginia Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1620 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 4:37pm Hey Thierry, Thanks for the reply and well wishes. And yes the centrum silver has vit. A, K2, zinc, boron as well as an additional 200 mg.'s of cal. citrate. I am a little light on the fish oil but do try and eat salmon/fish a few times a week. Best regards, Eric
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Batch

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Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must

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Bremerton, WA
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1621 - Jan 12^th, 2014 at 8:08pm

Hey Eric,

It appears you're taking all the supplements in this regimen at the proper doses...

Your 25(OH)D is very respectable, but it might not be high enough... We've had a few CH'ers who didn't respond until their 25(OH)D reached 85 to 95 ng/mL. You may need a higher maintenance dose of vitamin D3... like 15,000 IU/day. That's what I take during the winter months and while on travel.

I've had close calls with my grand kids coming by with flu and colds over Christmas so as a precaution, I bumped my vitamin D3 up to 20,000 IU/day for 10 days then back to 15,000 IU/day.

My wife has been taking the complete anti-inflammatory regimen with 15,000 IU/day vitamin D3 for the last three years... Loves it.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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Dan S.

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Denver, CO
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1622 - Jan 13^th, 2014 at 8:18am

Sorry, so can someone tell me the recommended vitamins and doses for the anti-inflammatory suggestion? I see multiple refeferences to vitamin K, Zinc and other things. Then at times see just D3, Magnesium', and fish oil. Batch it appears you might be able to clear this up?

I'm a long time sufferer (take Nortriptylene/Pamelor) and recently trying Verapamil as a preventative, but it takes a while to kick in to prevent. So been trying the supps mentioned above and didn't know if I got this correctly.

Taking 10K or D3, 1,200 of Magnesium, and 1k of fish oil.

Pleased let me know.

Thank you!

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Batch

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O2 & D3 You Must

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Bremerton, WA
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1623 - Jan 13^th, 2014 at 12:05pm

Hey Dan,

The "Go To" link with info on all the anti-inflammatory supplements, their doses, drug interactions and contraindications follows:

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The following table represents the latest list of anti-inflammatory regimen supplements and doses:

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I've found the following supplements shown by brand in the photo below are formulated with most of the supplements we need. I buy them at Costco, but you should be able to find similar formulations at most Vitamin Shoppes, supermarkets, Wall-Mart or over the internet:

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Not shown in this photo is the Centrum Silver or similar formulations that provide vitamin A and vitamin K2.

I've also added a vitamin K supplement called Super K with Advanced K2 Complex made by the Life Extension Foundation (LEF).

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Although this vitamin K complex isn't essential in preventing CH, it is needed to handle the increased serum calcium made available by taking vitamin D3 at the doses we take.

There are a growing number of studies finding the super K2 complex helps direct calcium away from soft tissues and arteries directing it instead to bones and teeth improving overall bone mineral density.

There are also a number of studies that have addressed the optimum ratio of calcium-magnesium supplements. The general consensus is to keep these two supplements at a 1:1 ratio.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Feb 7^th, 2014 at 2:23pm by Batch »

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

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Dan S. CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 10 Denver, CO Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1624 - Jan 13^th, 2014 at 1:26pm Thank you! 1st PF night last night (for over 2 weeks!). Not sure if its the meds or supps or both, but PF! Thank you.
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