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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why (Read 446590 times)
hell-jee
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1550 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 3:27pm
 
Batch

I took the tablets as you suggested. After a week my night hits started to get fewer, and daytime one's was just strong shadows. Then I developed infection in my mouth where I had an operation for arterial cauterization a week before I started the VitD. I had to go on anti-biotics to stop the infection and I was back to where I started. All the hits were back!

I kept taking the VitD, Tuesday morning was the last dose of the anti-biotics and that night I slept through the night and only shadows the whole day!! It was such a relieve!

Last night 2 hits again and during today 2 more, why I don't know, perhaps because I was a bit slack on the pH yesterday?

I went to see a physician today. I went for several blood tests he wanted on Tuesday, that was 2 weeks after starting the VitD and the result was that it is up now from 22-62ng/ml and told me to stop immediately with the high doses, it did not help to explain to him that I must get it up to 80-85 for the CH to go away! He was only concerned about my high cholesterol.

Did you not say your cholesterol was normal again after you took the VitD?

My oestrogen is also low and he suggested HRT, will that perhaps also go up with the VitD? Didn't I read some where testosterone goes up?  My CH started as I was approaching menopause.

Thanks for all your advice!

Wanted too wait for the blood test before reporting back.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1551 - Oct 3rd, 2013 at 3:41pm
 
By the way, I lost 5 pounds in the two weeks!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1552 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 8:41am
 
Way to go hell-jee! Good luck with the D3 regimen!  I can tell you I'm so thrilled to see the results as I get into this regimen... I'm hoping it changes my world Smiley
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1553 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 2:02pm
 
Hi,

I've had CH for 22 yrs now, I'm episodic and just came out of a 2 year remission. I'm about a month into this cycle and just came across this D3 regime. From what I've read here the results seem promising so I'd like to give it a try. Wondering if anyone can tell me if body size matters as far as the recommended dosing goes or is the dose the same regardless of size and gender? I'm female, 5'2 and 105 lbs. Thanks in advance!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1554 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 2:50pm
 
Hell-Jee,

I'm not a physician or nutritionist... but I did stay at a Howard Johnson a few years back...

Seriously... all I can do is provide you information based on my experience with, and what I've learned over the last three years about vitamin D3, Omega-3 Fish Oil and the rest of the vitamin D3 cofactors: calcium, magnesium, zinc, boron, vitamin A (retinol) and vitamin K2 (MK-4 & MK-7).  Armed with this information, you can make your own decisions.

For starters, you've likely already discovered that most PCPs and too many neurologists have no real first-hand clinical experience treating patients with cluster headaches... That should be understandable... We suffer from an orphan disorder...  When patients present with a condition they've not treated previously... like cluster headache, most physicians use a cookbook approach with treatment recommendations from Standards of Care Guidlines...  Many of these guidelines are excellent...  That said, it all depends on when the cookbook (Guideline) was published...

Unfortunately, the same can be said for the benefits of nutrition and the use of supplements on the many health issues we face... 

This shouldn't be surprising either... Most medical school curricula provide an average of 1 hour on primary headaches and about the same amount of time on the use of nutrition as a mode of preventative and interventional treatments.

Furthermore, most of the exciting medical breakthrough discoveries in the last ten years have come as a result of molecular biochemistry at the cellular and nuclear level...  in short, rise of the genetic-based pharmaceutical companies...

To put this in perspective, the Human Genome Project wasn't declared substantially complete until April 2003 with sequencing of the last remaining chromasome not completed until May of 2006.

Getting back to the pharmacokinetics of vitamin D3, the real exciting stuff has come as a result of gold standard RCTs completed in the last five years and the use of vitamin D3 as a preventative for cluster headache didn't start until three years ago when I developed the basic anti-inflammatory regimen.

Moreover, until now, the only first hand information on the efficacy of vitamin D3 as a preventative for cluster headache has only been available here at CH.com.  Other sites like ClusterBusters and a couple cluster headache organizations in Europe have been watching.

Sooo... unless physicians have been taking CME specific to vitamin D3 and nutrition... they've likely never been exposed to the health benefits of vitamin D3 and the vitamin D3 cofactors.

With that as a preface... here's what I suggest.  VitaminDWiki provides the most complete and up to date compendium of all things vitamin D3 including excerpts, and links to the latest RCTs... 

For example, here's the link to the benefits of taking vitamin D3 to control cholesterol:

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The really cool thing about vitamin D3, 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3, (calcitriol), the active hormonal form of vitamin D3 is its capacity to stimulate genetic expression... 

In simple terms calcitriol triggers certain genes to produce products our bodies need to heal themselves and turn off genes to prevent them from making products that make us sick.

It's this capacity of vitamin D3 we think is responsible for the down-regulation/suppression of Calcitonin Gene-Related Peptide (CGRP) that studies have found elevated during cluster and migraine headaches. Dr. Peter Goadsby, M.D., one of the world's top cluster headache neurologists, conducted one of these studies.

In order to help make genetic expression happen, we need to supplement with adequate amounts of vitamin D3, calcium, magnesium, zinc, boron, vitamin A (retinol) and vitamin K2 (MK-4 & MK-7).  The following graphic provides a high level illustration of how this happens...

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You can find more about the synergy between vitamin D3, vitamin A and vitamin K2 at the following link:

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The founder of VitaminDWiki has been kind enough to post a web page on the use of vitamin D3 as a cluster headache preventative at the following link: 

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Proof Vitamin D Works - A list of links to RCTs studying the use of vitamin D3 to treat and prevent a long list of health problems:

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Finally, no discussion of vitamin D3 therapy is complete without discussing safety.  The following graphic tells the tale on safety of the doses we take.  Note that it's not just the dose but also the duration of dose that adds up...

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This graphic doesn't tell the whole story... It's not so much the dose and duration but rather how much 25(OH)D the body produces in response to these doses over time. 

Even that can be misleading as it's not the serum concentration of 25(OH)D that indicates toxicity...  It's the serum concentration of calcium... 

If you read through the papers on vitamin D3 toxicity you'll find there are no studies (RCT's) that intentionally set out to define the vitamin D3 dose and serum level of 25(OH)D that triggers a toxic reaction...  That would be unethical... 

Instead, they gathered data from cases of unintentional and accidental overdoses due to mislabeled or improperly prepared vitamin D3 that resulted in calcium serum concentrations above the normal reference range.  These cases were then used to approximate vitamin D3 dosing and 25(OH)D thresholds where a toxic reaction occurred as indicated by too much serum calcium and or too much calcium in the urine.

In nearly every case, authors reporting toxic levels build in a large safety margin...  For example, if the lowest threshold for vitamin D3 toxicity from any study (with or without peer review), was found to be 200 ng/mL, the "Safe" upper limit of the normal reference range is set at 100 ng/mL.

In short, the vitamin D3 experts, endocrinologists specializing in treating vitamin D3 deficient patients will say... vitamin D3 toxicity is very rare...

Finally, I've tried to put this on an apples to apples comparison of relative risk...  I was unaware of any deaths reported to the FDA over the last 9 years due to vitamin D3... so I checked a web site that tracks reports like this...  I think you'll find the following list an eye-opener...

From Q1 2004 to Q3 2012, (9 years), the FDA received adverse reaction reports on the following prescription medications and over the counter supplements:  Check out the following link to see for yourself.  Plug in prescribed and over-the-counter medications and supplements you’ve been taking… one at a time, to see what’s been reported to the FDA about these medications over the last 9 years. Click on the “Show More” button to see the entire list of adverse reaction reports for each choice.

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Prescription Medications Used To Treat Cluster Headache and Related Symptoms
Deaths due to VERAPAMIL                        229
Deaths due to DEPAKOTE                         168
Deaths due to TOPAMAX                            66
Deaths due to LITHIUM CARBONATE           56
Deaths due to LYRICA                              703
Deaths due to GABAPENTIN (Neurontin)    202
Deaths due to VALPROIC ACID                  194
Deaths due to BACLOFEN                         102
Deaths due to PREDNISONE                        513
Deaths due to PREDNISOLONE                     163
Deaths due to COUMADIN                           458
Deaths due to IMITREX                                 32
Deaths due to INDOMETHACIN                      18
Deaths due to OCTREOTIDE                       1317
Deaths due to CALAN                                  208
Deaths due to CLOMIPHENE CITRATE               8 Intra-uterine Deaths
Deaths due to PROPRANOLOL HCL                67
Deaths due to ATENOLO                              62
Deaths due to AMITRIPTYLINE                    184
Deaths due to PAXIL                                  357
Deaths due to LIPITOR                               865
Deaths due to CRESTOR                             238
Deaths due to NEXIUM                               357
Deaths due to AMBIEN                               243
Deaths due to PRILOSEC                                0
Deaths due to DIHYDROERGOTAMINE             0
Deaths due to OXYGEN                                  0

Over The Counter NSAIDs                  
Deaths due to NAPROXEN (Aleve)                142
Deaths due to ASPIRIN                               645
Deaths due to TYLENOL                              964
Deaths due to EXCEDRIN                            500
Deaths due to IBUPROFEN                           661

Over The Counter Supplements/Nutrients
Deaths due to MELATONIN                             0
Deaths due to MAGNESIUM OXIDE                  0
Deaths due to CALCIUM CITRATE                    Not Listed
Deaths due to BORON                                    Not Listed
Deaths due to VITAMIN A (Retinol)                 6
Deaths due to VITAMIN B (Complex)               2
Deaths due to VITAMIN B 12                          0
Deaths due to VITAMIN C                               0
Deaths due to Vitamin E                                 2
Deaths due to VITAMIN D3                             0
VITAMIN D3 TOXICITY                                   2
Deaths due to VITAMIN K                               2
Deaths due to VITAMIN K2                             Not Listed
Deaths due to ZINC OXIDE                             Not Listed


So there you have it...  The next time a nervous Nellie cries "Wolf" in a post about taking vitamin D3... at the doses we take in the anti-inflammatory regimen...  take a deep breath and remember the sage sayings...  Too much of anything isn't good... and... All things in moderation...

Good people of Clusterville... Our healthcare system is going down the dumper at a frightening pace...  The smart thing to do now is stay healthy.  The anti-inflammatory regimen is a very safe regimen with health benefits that go well beyond preventing cluster headaches.

And if you do get sick and need to see a doctor... be informed... Ask for an explanation of any prescribed medication including side effects.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2013 at 10:41pm by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1555 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 3:05pm
 
Thanks Batch!

I'm not listening to him!! I'm just getting better , why would I if this is working!!

Thanks again!!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1556 - Oct 4th, 2013 at 4:20pm
 
LAW,

Good question.  The short answer is yes, body mass does make a difference in dosing with vitamin D3.

That said, there's also variation in response to dose.  That makes taking a disciplined approach by seeing your PCP or neurologist to discuss the anti-inflammatory regimen and ask for the lab test of your 25(OH)D serum concentration.  Be sure to tell your PCP or neurologist you want to take vitamin D3 and not D2.  Some physicians will want to control this regimen by writing you a prescription for vitamin D2...  Be prepared to push back if this happens...  Vitamin D3 is roughly two times more effective than vitamin D2...  See the following links for details:

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Getting your 25(OH)D tested regularly (once a month) is a good idea until you reach a stable serum concentration in the "Green Zone" (60 to 110 ng/mL).  This is the range of 25(OH)D lab results reported by CH'ers who respond favorably to this regimen.  After that, get a 25(OH)D lab test once a year or if you fall out of remission...

The following chart developed by Dr. Robert Heaney, MD, illustrates the "average" 25(OH)D response to dose of vitamin D3 over time.  I've overlaid this chart with color bands.  The red band represents the range of 25(OH)D lab results taken before starting this regimen and the green band represents the range of lab results taken after a significant response to this regimen.

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If you follow the top curve for a dose of vitmain D3 at 10,000 IU/day, you'll see it takes weeks for the average person to reach the green zone assuming the starting serum concentration of 25(OH)D is low.

As the goal of this regimen is to elevate 25(OH)D into the green zone and keep it there in order to prevent cluster headache, getting there as fast and safely as possible is a reasonable approach.

Several CH'ers have used an accelerated dosing schedule of 20,000 to 25,000 IU/day vitamin D3 plus a loading dose of 50,000 IU vitamin D3 once a week on top of the daily dose to elevate their 25(OH)D serum concentration into the green zone as rapidly as possible.

For reference, a 50,000 IU loading dose is common and considered conservative...  If the vitamin D3 loading dose is computed based on weight and a final serum concentration of 70 ng/mL, the loading dose can range from 100,000 IU/week for a 150 lb person to 140,000 IU/week for a 200 lb person.  See the following link for additional details:

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It's important to get another lab test for 25(OH)D after a month on any accelerated vitamin D3 dosing schedule.  At that point you can adjust the vitamin D3 dose accordingly. 

If you're unable to get this second lab test at that point, it's prudent to drop back to a maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day. 

As you can see from the chart above, a 10,000 IU/day dose of vitamin D3 should eventually result in a stable 25(OH)D serum concentration around 85 ng/mL. That's the optimum serum concentration for CH'ers.  It also provides sufficient reserves in the event of a viral infection (colds, flu) which can cause your immune system's T-Cells to deplete 25(OH)D rapidly in response to the viral infection and still leave enough to prevent CH.

If 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 elevates your 25(OH)D above 90 ng/mL, drop the vitamin D3 dose to 8,000 IU/day and test again after a month.  This is called "tuning" the regimen. 

The half-life of 25(OH)D at these serum concentrations is likely little more than a week so 25(OH)D levels can drop rapidly... It's easy (and a lot less painful) to lower serum 25(OH)D concentrations than it is to raise them...

As with any treatment, if you experience any serious problems/reactions, stop the regimen and see your PCP or neurologist. 

The most common reported side effects are an upset tummy and loose bowel.  The upset tummy is usually due to the Omega-3 Fish Oil, and the loose bowel is due to magnesium which has a known side effect of osmotic diarrhea if too much is taken.

If either of these side effects occur, stop taking the Omega-3 Fish Oil or Magnesium supplements as appropriate until the side effect clears.  Wait a few days to a week then add back half the original dose.  This is also part of the regimen "tuning" process.

Hope this helps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2013 at 2:04am by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1557 - Oct 5th, 2013 at 3:12am
 
Batch

Because we don't have 5000 and 10000IU tablets here in South Africa you recommended to use the 50 000IU tabs a bit differently, my level is 63ng/ml after 2 weeks. I will go on taking the 50 000IU tabs every 5th day and have my levels tested in a months time

I get hit only twice a day now. 90min after falling asleep, and at 5am which the O2 aborts easily. I'm still conscious of it at the normal times it always happened but no pain!
My smell triggers are still going on, I'm trying to avoid it as far as possible.

Thanks
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1558 - Oct 5th, 2013 at 9:19am
 
Hey Hell-jee, Maybe you can get your supplements online. I get all of mine on iherb.com (including D3 @ 5000mg per capsule). Iherb is much cheaper than here in Ireland and they have a much wider selection. Iherb also does a US$4 posting option for packages under 4 pounds weight with very little risk of the customs intercepting the package and loading extra taxes. Also this month they are doing an offer of free postage for this option, I think for an order over US$40.

Batch, I recently got my D3 level tested, I will report here as soon as I get the results back.

All the best to all.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1559 - Oct 5th, 2013 at 10:07am
 
Thanks again Batch for being our guru here....Our go to guy!

Colorado vacation was half and half.  Glenwood Springs was not so much fun as I got hits all day and night the first few days.   I can't even remember how many as we traveled.  There were at least 2 full days of rain (My head felt the barametric pressure).  The altitude was not that high (only around 5000 feet).  AND I should NEVER NEVER NEVER have gone to the Hot springs pool.  Needless to say I got a bad hit that day.  Kip 10 and my husband was down the street with the keys to the cars with the O2 tank in it.  Not a happy afternoon.

We did try to get to a higher altitude later on in the week.  The hits got much more manageable.  We stayed in Woodland Park ( approx. 9000 feet) and I only had 2 easy hits that night.  I don't know why but the higher the altitude the better.  We ran out of time and had to come home.  Hits were day and night again and ramping up until I decidedly took control of what went into my body.  At least 2 liters of lemon water, Vit D3 (10-15000 IUs), Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc, EPA/DHA and simple alkaline foods.  My hits have gotten easier.  2 hits last night, NO hits the night before and only one hit the previous night.  I will monitor my food and liquid intake closely and see if they don't go away completely.  I am on week 5.  My cycle last time was 6 months though the "usual is about 12 to 16 weeks.

Blessings,
Karen
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1560 - Oct 5th, 2013 at 10:09am
 
thanks Thierry, my brother sent me some from Canada, just waiting for it to arrive.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1561 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:22pm
 
Batch; I don't know if you remember me, but I posted on the boards and this thread a couple of years ago. I asked questions about how much d3 was safe to take and all that.

It seems like you've done even more research since then. Based on the more recent info I've been reading, I thought I'd mention that I've been taking 10,000 IU of D3 daily for a pretty steady time now... about a year now, maybe a bit longer.

I don't take it for CH, but because I've read that most people are deficient to some degree in vitamin d3. So I figured it'd be good for me to take it, just for good health.

But I haven't ever gotten my blood checked to see what my levels are. I only take 10,000 IU, but do you think I should get my blood checked if I continue to take it?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1562 - Nov 8th, 2013 at 2:07pm
 
Hey Jair,

Yes I remember you and sorry I missed your last post...  I took the complete anti-inflammatory regimen with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 for two years and my highest 25(OH)D serum concentration was 85 ng/mL in mid summer.  Over the last year I've increased the dose to an average of 15,000 IU/day and my last 25(OH)D lab test was 92 ng/mL.

Even though you're taking 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3, it's still prudent to see your PCP for the 25(OH)D lab test at least once a year.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1563 - Nov 9th, 2013 at 4:12am
 
Hi Batch, I hope you are well.
It is soon after finding out about this forum (last february -2013-)and the D3 regimen that you have designed after much research that i started taking all the vits/supplements included in the regimen. my D3 level 1 week after having started the regimen was 49 nmol/L. During the fist 3 to 4 weeks the CHs behaved strangely (changing side, coming on for 5 minutes and going again, different kind of pain sensation).
However after 4 weeks the CHs were gone. After 2 months on the regimen I stopped taking the preventative that the neuro had prescribed - 500 mg twice a day of Epilim Chrono 500- and remained pain free. I was glad to stop this because it was giving me a slight shake in my hands.

The worse time for my CHs has always been June and Oct/Nov. Last june -after being in the regimen for just 3 months, I experienced CHs for only about 2 weeks (my spring cycle usually lasted from 2 to 3 months), however they were much milder than the previous many years (max kip 5 to 6). I took Zomig 2.5mg a few times.

All has been well since and have had a fantastic summer with no CHs at all even when going in to the sauna regularly and exercising in the gym.

At the beginning of September i asked my doc for a D3 test, my level was 229 nmol/L.

Since i have started the regimen, I have been taking daily 10000iu D3 as well as Vit A 2500iu, Calcium citrate 400mg, fish oil 24000mg, magnesium citrate 400mg, Vit K2 120 mcg, Zinc 10 mg and Boron 3 mg. I have also been taking a weekly loading dose of D3 at 50000 iu.

About a week ago ago I started feeling CHs again at a low level -from Kip1 to 3- so I started 20000 iu D3 every 2 nd day. But 2 nights ago I had a kip 8 to 9 attack, it was awful, I had forgotten what it was like. This is a time of year when I would have Kip 9 to 10 every night for about 2 months so I am happy to be experiencing much less. Last night the beast did not wake me and i had a good night sleep after having had just shadows yesterday during the day.
I read today in your latest post on this thread (above) that you are now taking 15000 iu D3 every day for the last year.
I am thinking of taking 20000 iu D3 daily for the next few weeks, Do you think that is within safe limits? or should I just take 15000 iu like yourself? Also. if I increase my intake of D3, are there any of the other vits/supplements that should be increased too?
I wish to thank you deeply for all the work that you have put in researching this regimen and for your willingness to share it without limits so as to help so many of us.
All the best.
Thierry
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« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2013 at 11:12pm by thierry »  
 
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1564 - Nov 9th, 2013 at 10:26pm
 
It's been a while since I've been on the boards. I'm so happy to see so many people finding relief with the anti-inflammatory regimen!

Just wanted to pipe in to say that apart from co-factors that can potentially confound the efficacy of the regimen in providing CH relief, if someone has tried the regimen witihout success, you might want to look into the role of ubiquinol (the bioactive form of CoQ10) in helping the body utilize the D3 (not sure utilize is the correct term).

We've joked about how Gary may not be human, but I stumbled on someone trying to increase D3 levels, and wasn't successful until ubiquinol was added to the pile of supplements. So something to consider. We'll see if it helps Gary.

Laurie

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1565 - Nov 10th, 2013 at 12:26am
 
Thanks Batch. And no prob about missing the post. You're doing the right thing by prioritizing for those who are using the regimen to battle CH, honestly, imo. So please, don't worry about when you get back to my posts about the regimen. It's a great regimen but those with CH need it more than I do and therefore I'd feel bad if they didn't get first priority. Hope that makes sense. lol I'm not always the best at wording things the way I intend to. lol

You say it's important to take the blood-test. Is that to find out if my levels are high enough/healthy/ideal? Or is it to make sure I'm not too high/toxic? Basically, even at only taking 10,000 IU a day, is there still a chance that I could have toxic levels?

Also, I've recently added 500 mg of Calcium Citrate, and 300 mg of krill oil.

I take krill oil cause my dad and I share it, and he's allergic to some fish, so he had to use something that he wouldn't be allergic to.

My question is, is krill oil any different in potency than the fish oil that you use? I also notice that (if I remember right) you use about 1800-2000 mg? So my 300 mg of krill oil might not be a high enough dose?

I really do appreciate your responses. Again, no rush. My questions don't need to be high priority.

Hoping that this regimen continues to work so well for you all!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1566 - Nov 10th, 2013 at 11:55am
 
Good day Batch and all, An update:
Working with the D3 Regimen since mid September, trying to increase my level to the "pf" levels, should be there by now.
Sep 25 = 86 nmol/L
Oct 11 = 170 nmol/L
Nov  8 =  ____
Friday, Nov 8th blood test done, should have results by Tuesday Nov 12th.
I've had a few minor CH break thru's.
This Friday, woke up approx. 9:00pm with pressure on opposite side of my last cycle, np went back to sleep.
Last night (Saturday Nov 9th) 10:00pm, woke with kip 3, used oxygen.. np but not sure what's going on.

Religiously watching my intake of D3, dropped to 15,000/day for the last week in October, other than that my intake has been 25,000/day with one top up of 50,000 D3, Monday Nov 4th.
Don't really get it...

Shall be interesting to see my 25(OH)D results.  I'll post as soon as result known.
PFW's all
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1567 - Nov 10th, 2013 at 5:28pm
 
Hey Thierry and Sue,

Thanks for your updates and good question Thierry.  The short answer is yes... bumping the vitamin D3 intake to 20,000 during the winter months may be necessary for some CH'ers to remain pain free, even though their 25(OH)D serum concentration is up in the green zone, 60 to 110 ng/mL (150 to 275 nmol/L) like yours.

Given your 25(OH)D serum concentration was up withing the green zone at 229 nmol/L, (91.6 ng/mL) in September, I wouldn't stay at 20,000 IU/day for more than a couple weeks before dropping back to 15,000 IU/day.  Keep the rest of the cofactors as listed... 

I'd also suggest seeing your PCP for lab tests of your 25(OH)D, total calcium, and PTH after 30 days on the above vitamin D3 dosing schedule.

Why some of us need a higher vitamin D3 intake to go pain free and stay that way is not entirely clear... and I don't have all the answers.  It's likely more complex than just the change of season with less UV-B from direct sunlight producing less cutaneous vitamin D3.

What we do know is our livers faithfully metabolize vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) in the first phase of metabolism into 25(OH)D3, (calcidiol) on a near one to one basis.

The next phase of vitamin D3 metabolism takes two different paths, the endocrine path through the kidneys and the extrarenal (outside the kidneys), autocrine path.  This second path takes place at the cellular and nuclear level throughout the body.  The following graphic illustrates these two paths:

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The endocrine path of vitamin D3 metabolism travels through the kidneys where an enzyme, 1α-hydroxylase, adds another OH- radical to 25(OH)D3 forming 1,25(OH)2D3, (calcitriol).  This process is not as efficient as the first phase of metabolism in the liver and it results in serum 1,25(OH)2D3  concentrations roughly 1000 times less than the 25(OH)D substrate. 

On top of that, the half life of 1,25(OH)2D3, the active metabolite, is roughly 10 to 20 hours. To complicate things even further, there are a number of competing processes that consume the 1,25(OH)2D3 we think is responsible for preventing our cluster headaches.

Viral and bacterial infections as well as allergic reactions to pollen, mold and fungus spores are the likely culprits.  All these antigens trigger our immune system's T-Cells into action and massive reproduction. This rapid bloom of T-Cells consumes a lot of 25(OH)D and likely most of the available serum concentration of 1,25(OH)2D3.

As you can see in the above graphic, roughly 20% of the serum concentration of 1,25(OH)2D3 is responsible for calcium homeostasis (maintaining optimum serum calcium concentrations), as it's capable of pulling calcium from food or supplements we've taking present in the gut... or from our bones where 99% of the calcium in our bodies resides.  Calcium homeostasis maintains serum calcium concentrations in a very narrow range.

Our parathyroids produce PTH (parathyroid hormone) that acts as a catylist in the kidneys to increase the metabolism of 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3 when the total calcium serum concentration is at the low end of its normal reference range.  The increased 1,25(OH)2D3 serum concentration speeds up absorption of calcium from the gut and bones.

When the total calcium serum concentration is at the high end of its normal reference range, the parathyroids slow or stop producing PTH. This slows the metabolism of 25(OH)D to 1,25(OH)2D3 and that slows the absorption of calcium from the gut and bones.

As a side note, too much PTH, a condition called hyperparathyroidism, can signal the kidneys to produce too much 1,25(OH)2D3 from even relatively small sustained doses of vitamin D3...  and that pulls too much calcium from the gut and bones resulting in total calcium serum concentrations above the normal reference range...  in short, vitamin D3 toxicity.

The autocrine path of extrarenal vitamin D3 metabolism accounts for roughly 80% of the 25(OH)D produced.  Metabolism along this path takes place at the cellular and nuclear level in several different types of tissues throughout the body including nerve tissues. 

In this case, the same enzyme present in the kidneys that helps metabolize 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3 is also present at the cellular level but in much smaller concentrations. 

1,25(OH)2D3, the active metabolite of vitamin D3 attaches to sockets on the DNA chain called vitamin D receptor elements (VDRE).  The process of bonding 1,25(OH)2D3 to the DNA chain also involves retinoic acid receptors (vitamin A) as illustrated in the following two graphics:

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This is where things get interesting... Although the actual mechanism of action has yet to be conclusively identified, (how vitamin D3 prevents cluster headache), it appears genetic expression is a key player.

In particular, it appears from some studies, vitamin D3 has the capacity to down-regulate or suppress the production of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) that other studies have found elevated during active cluster and migraine headaches.

Dr. Robert Heaney, MD describes genetic expression best as "The expression of proteins and peptides necessary for control of cell proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis (cell death).

Because these functions are critical for most body tissues, notably epithelial integrity and the immune response, it is perhaps not surprising that inadequate vitamin D availability may limit both the performance of the tissues concerned and
their control of various aspects of the cell cycle."

Dr. Heaney also explained the diversity of effect seems to be an expression of the fact
that there are roughly 800 human genes for which there is a vitamin D response element.

I realize this is a long-winded answer... It's the best I can do without dedicated studies with detailed laboratory analysis to back it up.

If you're still looking for a simplified explanation why we can still get hit with a 25(OH)D serum concentration in the green zone, 60 to 110 ng/mL, (150 to 275 nmol/L)...  Think of it as a bucket brigade to put out a fire... 

You start out with a 100 gallons of water... but the buckets get smaller and there's more spillage on each exchange the closer they get to the fire...  The last bucket thrown at the fire might contain as little as a cup of water... or less...

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1568 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 1:44pm
 
OK, I got my 25(OH)D results today and it's 67.1 ng/ml.

I'm on the 5th week of a cycle, after 9 days of taking 15,000 IU D3 (before that I took 10K a day). I also use melatonin (10mg) and avoid triggers the best I can. Aborts with O2.

Nevertheless - I'm still getting hit at least once a day and most of the nights and have shadows most of the time. The bright side is that my attacks are less violent this year. Most are KIP 4-5 instead of KIP 6-8 in past years.

Sadly, the triptan I'm using (solvable Rizatriptan wafers) which used to be very effective for me, has become less effective and makes me feel really bad.

So, what's next?



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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1569 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 4:03pm
 
Hi Batch, oops!  My results are 373 nmol/L, now to high...
If you will please give me directions to bring this amount down..
I've been taking 25,000/day and still getting one hit a night.  Last night kip 3/4, used oxygen to abort.
I haven't been taking any calcium, but all other co-factors I've tried to stay in-line to the regimen.
Perhaps increase the magnesium?

I thank you for any suggestions that you can think of!
Thanks Batch, thanks so much...
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1570 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 4:38pm
 
Sorry Batch, I was at work sending my last post. I guess that result is not that bad... I'm not sure of the calculation to convert to ng/mL's. 
Your thoughts are appreciated....
Should I slow my in-take of D3? Possibly increase magnesium? I still want this to work!
Thanks again!!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1571 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 4:47pm
 
My apoligizes for all these posts...
I'm taking everything to the tee as the regimen suggests, except calcium.
However a naturalpath suggested Magnesium Bisglycinate, could that be something to look at changing?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1572 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:11pm
 
Hey Sue,

Good questions and thanks for the clarification...  373 nmol/L 25(OH)D, (149.2 ng/mL) is a little high... but no big deal as long as your total calcium stays within the normal reference range.  The important thing is staying PF...

To convert nmol/L to ng/mL, divide by 2.5

The half-life of 25(OH)D is much shorter at higher serum concentrations, i.e., it drops rapidly without supplementation. 

Accordingly, dropping your vitamin D3 intake to 15,000 or 10,000 IU/day should bring your serum concentration of 25(OH)D down just fine. 

Drop your vitamin D3 dose to 15,000 IU/day for a week.  If there's no breakthrough recurrence of your CH... drop your vitamin D3 intake to a maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day.  It can take two to three weeks to stabilize.

As always, check with your PCP after a month at the lower dose to make sure your 25(OH)D is near 85 ng/mL, (212.5 nmol/L).

Hope this helps,

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1573 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 8:32pm
 
Thanks Batch, much appreciated, I'll keep you posted. Sue  Smiley
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1574 - Nov 13th, 2013 at 4:53am
 
Good Morning... I know I've taken a lot of space up here, just wanted to report my night was clear.  After reading your reply Batch, I took my night time Vit's which included 5,000D3, a total of 15,000 for yesterday. 
I slept well with no CH break through. 
I will follow the steps you have suggested. I feel good, hopefully this continues... I really want this to work.
I can't thank you enough Batch.

Cheers!
Sue
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