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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why (Read 459267 times)
Cosworth
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #575 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:08pm
 
Here's my update: I think I jumped in here around p. 20 or so Smiley  I began heavy shadowing around Dec.22nd (or so) and was quite sure cycle was starting. I'm Episodic and tend to get one long cycle (2-3 months) each year.  I began the vitamin regimen pretty quickly upon learning about it and i'd say by the 24th I was on board.   I'm doing around 11,ooo IU's D3, 600 mg. Calcium citrate (all at once), Multivitamin, 500 mg. Magnesium, plus around 3000 mg Omega 3's (fish oil) per day.  I actually take the fish oil during the morning and night.  I have not had a significant hit (no more than a kip2) since this started. I have continued to shadow off and on pretty consistently each day which if nothing else confirms for me 100%  that I was definitely beginning a cycle. I wondered if this could have been a "false start" to a cycle which has happened to me before but I think now this was definitely a cycle starting and by now i'd usually be in full blown 2-5 clusters a day in the 6+ kp range.   I'm wondering which would be the #1 item in the regimen to increase to try and stop the shadowing?  I guess i'll start one at a time to increase and hopefully i'll be able to isolate which one does the trick! I' m so hopeful that this may be a long term solution to this disease and that it will provide relief to many of you out there on this board.   (Batch, gonna go take the survey)
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #576 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:12pm
 
I saw someone post earlier (and now i can't find it) about what type of Magnesium to take. I'm taking Magnesium Oxide. I think the poster said don't take this type and instead take Magnesium Citrate?   Can anyone answer this one? Is Magnesium Oxide bad?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #577 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:15pm
 
Cosworth wrote on Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:12pm:
I saw someone post earlier (and now i can't find it) about what type of Magnesium to take. I'm taking Magnesium Oxide. I think the poster said don't take this type and instead take Magnesium Citrate?   Can anyone answer this one? Is Magnesium Oxide bad?   


Magnesium Citrate is what is recommended for this vitamin regimen.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #578 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 3:18pm
 
Chad,
I hope it works for you, and interested to say the least. Would you say your diet could be lacking in Calcium? I've never given it much thought, but I have to admit mine is certainly lacking.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #579 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 3:38pm
 
Playdoh,  I need to research my diet more.  I eat the same thing almost daily.
I start with whole wheat peanut butter toast for breakfast, then a banana for snack.  Salad or tuna sandwich for lunch, yogurt for snack, balance meal for dinner.  I refrain from milk and eggs due to my cholesterol. So, I need to see how much calcium is in these foods as I'm a nutritional idiot, lol!  I'm increasing my calcim citrate today to 1000mg.  I already took 500 and looking to take another 500 at bed time.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #580 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 3:40pm
 
LasVegas wrote on Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:15pm:
Magnesium Citrate is what is recommended for this vitamin regimen.

...recommended, but is the mag oxide ok?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #581 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 3:42pm
 
Chad wrote on Jan 11th, 2012 at 3:40pm:
LasVegas wrote on Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:15pm:
Magnesium Citrate is what is recommended for this vitamin regimen.

...recommended, but is the mag oxide ok?


Don't know, Batch and Niels would be the two to ask as they created this vitamin regimen.  Might want to PM them with your inquiry for fast reply Wink
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #582 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 5:25pm
 
Chad wrote on Jan 11th, 2012 at 3:38pm:
Playdoh,  I need to research my diet more.  I eat the same thing almost daily.
I start with whole wheat peanut butter toast for breakfast, then a banana for snack.  Salad or tuna sandwich for lunch, yogurt for snack, balance meal for dinner.  I refrain from milk and eggs due to my cholesterol. So, I need to see how much calcium is in these foods as I'm a nutritional idiot, lol!  I'm increasing my calcim citrate today to 1000mg.  I already took 500 and looking to take another 500 at bed time.



That's pretty healthy compared to mine, yet I have no idea how much calcium is in any of those either.

I too avoid milk, yet I suppose I should try a glass here and there. I have a 15 month old daughter so there's plenty of the white stuff around. lol

I read something interesting lately, that Dr's entire education on diet is a one course, like a 3 hour lesson. And that most of the info is generated by the Dairy and Meat producers.

Not sure about the last part, but its sad to think that Dr's are trained nearly completely to use the Prescription pad. Although that might not be fair to say, since one could argue that Dieticians are a Dr's only necessary tool regarding diet issues.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #583 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 8:45pm
 
I wish 2-3 months was a long cycle for me Undecided

I'm like 6-7 months.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #584 - Jan 11th, 2012 at 10:51pm
 
Cosworth wrote on Jan 11th, 2012 at 2:12pm:
I saw someone post earlier (and now i can't find it) about what type of Magnesium to take. I'm taking Magnesium Oxide. I think the poster said don't take this type and instead take Magnesium Citrate?   Can anyone answer this one? Is Magnesium Oxide bad?   


Magnesium Oxide is not bad, but it is considered to have very low "bio-availability".  Only 4-6% is absorbed.  I avoid it. Magnesium  chloride, lactade, citrate, sulfate, malate, glycinate are all considered to be better.  Generally also more expensive.

Getting Mg from food is best, I suppose.  See Table 1 from extensive list of  good Mg sources:  Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #585 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 9:44am
 
ShazBot!  It sounds like we're approaching agreement... However, I think it's wise to review the bidding and rationale for the dosing strategies used in the anti-inflammatory regimen of vitamin and mineral supplements.

Just in case some of the comments have thrown a head & shoulder fake to readers coming late to this discussion... the Basic and Complete Anti-inflammatory Regimen Treatment Protocol and Dosing Guide is located at the following link:

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Let me start by saying the basic anti-inflammatory regimen amounts to a conservatively stacked deck as a CH preventative with respect to the supplement doses and their ratios.  With the exception of the vitamin D3, the remaining supplements are at or below their respective Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA).   

I arrived at the composition of the present basic regimen after consulting with with experts in nutrition, endocrinology, and integrative medicine.  As we gather more information, I expect there will be room for fine tuning the amounts and ratios of these supplements.  The beauty of a forum like this is that there's room for differing opinions on this regimen... like taking more calcium or not taking any at all.  What's even more important, is the rationale behind these opinions, and are the results repeatable.

That said, when we contrast the efficacy of this regimen with the leading standards of care preventative, verapamil,  the present regimen is doing just fine.  That 70% of the 100 + CH'ers who started this regimen have a significant reduction in the frequency and severity of their CH, and that 66% of them are pain free and remain that way trumps verapamil with at best 50% efficacy per the results of the Cluster Headache Survey 1134 of us took.

So let's review the present regimen.  The suggested dose for vitamin D3 is 10,000 IU/day. This is a very safe therapeutic dose.  That amount may be a little high for a maintenance dose for some CH'ers while others may require an even higher dose to stay pain free... and that suggests an even higher therapeutic dose...  If you look at the following graph of 25(OH)D response to vitamin D3 dose, you'll see what I mean.  It doesn't take too much imagination to draw another curve for a dose of 15,000 or 20,000 IU/day vitamin D3 to see that the initial rise in the slope of 25(OH)D concentration is steeper and that it arrives in the green zone at 60 ng/mL in much less time.

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I've overlaid lab test results for 25(OH)D from several CH'ers before and after going pain free using the anti-inflammatory regimen.  What this graph tells us follows:  For a given daily intake of vitamin D3, we reach a corresponding serum level of 25(OH)D, that it reaches equilibrium and stabilizes at a steady state value after 5 to 6 months.  What it also tells us is the higher the daily intake of vitamin D3, the rise in 25(OH)D is faster, it reaches the green zone in fewer days, and the resulting stable serum level of 25(OH)D is higher after 5 to 6 months.

The important thing to remember about supplementing with vitamin D3 is that without a lab test for 25(OH)D, it's principal metabolite, our only measure of merit is the dose related response as evidenced by a favorable change in CH pattern, i.e., reduction in frequency and severity of CH with the goal of going completely pain free and staying that way. 

The second point is to correlate lab test results of 25(OH)D concentrations to a change in CH pattern that's keeping the beast away if the level is high enough. 

From the data I've collected thanks to many of you who've had this lab test and posted the results, the target therapeutic range to stay pain free appears to be 60-90 ng/mL (150-225 nmol/L) for most of us...  Some may require an even higher concentration upwards of 120 ng/mL, (300 nmol/L) and some may require slightly less.  This is the data I used to generate the green color band in the chart above.

What we do know at this point is there are CH'ers who's 25(OH)D concentration was 42 ng/mL and they were still experiencing frequent CH.  I used this data to anchor the upper boundary of the pink color band in the above graph.  I'd also like to point out that as more CH'ers try this regimen and have the lab test for 25(OH)D, these color bands will take on better resolution.

The real question now is what is the best dosing strategy to elevate our 26(OH)D concentration into the pain free green zone as safely and rapidly as possible without upsetting the apple cart by taking too much of one or another of the supplements and disturbing their balance. 

The following graph from the most recent study by Garland et al, on vitamin D3 dosing and 25(OH)D response measured every six months as collected by the GrassRootsHealth D*Action study, paints an interesting picture:

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I've drawn a line from 60 ng/mL 25(OH)D concentration to the lower 95% probability boundary and from there down to the daily dose required to reach that concentration.  From this you can see that in order to ensure the probability that 95% of the dosing population reaches a serum level of 60 ng/mL, they would need to dose at 20,000 IU/day.

Clearly calcium and the vitamin D3 cofactor minerals magnesium, zinc and boron play a role in optimum metabolism of vitamin D3 into 25(OH)D, and from the recent posts, the amount of calcium supplements and the cal-mag ratio also appears to be an important factor.

We also know from the results of several published studies on serum level 25(OH)D response to vitamin D3, that a therapeutic dose of 10,000 IU/day is safe and not likely to result in vitamin D3 intoxication associated with 25(OH)D levels of 200-300 ng/mL with hypercalcemia and hypercalciuria. 

In fact, there are other studies that have shown that starting and 20 week serum levels of calcium were unchanged when taking vitamin D3 at 10,000 IU/day.  The most recent study of the 25(OH)D response to vitamin D3 doses as high as 40,000 IU/day concluded that a long term sustained daily intake this high is also safe and unlikely to result in vitamin D3 intoxication.

At face value, that leaves us with a safe therapeutic vitamin D3 dosing range of 10,000 to 40,000 IU/day.  However like so many other systems in nature, the law of unintended consequence comes into play when we upset the balance of these systems by increasing the quantity of one of the reactants in that process.  For example, increasing the daily intake of vitamin D3 also drives more calcium into solution from all sources and if the extra calcium isn't available in the gut, this process takes it from our bones. 

Calcium homeostasis, the processes by with the body maintains serum calcium levels in a narrow range of 2.2 to 2.6 mmol/L is much like other homeostatic processes in the body.   These include the homeostatic processes that maintain our body temperature at 98.6º F, our arterial pH in a range between 7.35 and 7.45, and blood glucose levels between 64.8 and 104.4 mg/dL.

Accordingly, as calcium homeostasis can and will extract calcium from the bones in order to maintain optimum serum calcium levels if insufficient calcium is available in the gut from dietary sources, it's prudent to supplement with calcium when supplementing with vitamin D3.  (See following link for a paper on calcium homeostasis, PTH and Calcitonin.)

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That begs the questions, How much calcium? and If I add calcium, how much magnesium should I take to maintain adequate vitamin D3 metabolism to make the 25(OH)D needed to remain pain free?

I'm not a doctor or a nutrition expert.  However, in reviewing available information on this topic and talking with some experts, there are several recommendations for calcium supplements that range from 500 to 1000 mg/day.  From what we've learned about the anti-inflammatory regimen, calcium citrate is the preferred form of calcium supplement to take and 500 mg/day appears to be adequate.

Magnesium supplements and the cal-mag ratio are another story.  Suggested cal-mag ratios range from 2:1, 1:1 and 1:2.  Moreover, there's no clear consensus.  If you're taking two of the Kirkland brand of calcium citrate tablets, you're getting 500 mg/day calcium and 60 mg/day magnesium.  (You're also getting the required zinc and boron).  That may not be enough magnesium for some of us which gets us back to the question of how much more magnesium should we add?

The RDA for magnesium is 420 mg/day for men and 320 mg/day for women, and as magnesium is readily available in green leafy vegetables, whole grains, nuts, meat, starches, and milk, without a lab test, it's difficult to tell.  From my experience, 200 mg of additional magnesium is fine but 400 mg starts getting iffy...

In reality, the answer here is easy... Your bowels will tell you when you've taken too much supplemental magnesium...  In other words, it's like rolling the dice in a crap shoot... and that analogy is spot on... Take the right amount, you win, and everything works better.  Take too much and you crap out...  In other words, you'll find yourself taking small steps with great trepidation towards the dumper...  Smiley

The reason for this behavior is simple...  You'll get loose as a goose with explosive watery stool if you take too much magnesium.  Smiley 

That reminds me of Uncle Miltie... the comedian and actor Milton Berle, who joked about a commercial for the BVD brand of underware by saying... "At my age...  I've done everything in my BVDs..." with a big smile...

I'll close on that note of bathroom humor... but I will make another request of the CH'ers who've tried this regimen, to take the Anti-Inflammatory Survey if they haven't already done so...  We need this information and there are at least another 70 of you out there who haven't taken this survey.

Take care,

V/R, Batch


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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #586 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 4:50pm
 
Awesome, as usual post Batch. I know your not a Dr, or headache specialist, but you could've fooled me. I dub thee "CH Guru". lol

To be clear on my posts regarding Calcium, I'm only explaining what I've been taking and the results I've inferred form the short month I've been taking the regime.

In no way, shape or form do I intend to offer an alternative, or contradict Batch's advice, and suggestions.

My suggestion on taking 1200 mg of Calcium is to those who don't find relief or complete relief from the Standard dosages after a fair amount of time. And from what I've read "19 - 50 years: 1,000 mg/day" is recommended and "2,000 - 2,500 mg a day appears to be safe for adults."
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Its not wise to take anything, including Calcium, in excess of what is 'needed'. Use your discretion and calculate what your usual diet provides, and supplement, or do not supplement accordingly.

I say all this in attempt to not confuse or appear to persuade anyone to just take 1200 cause it simply "seems" to be effective for myself.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #587 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 9:17pm
 
Thank you Batch for posting the chart.  I had been looking everywhere to find that information. 
After a few pf days the beast has returned for the last few nights.  It is still fairly mild compared to how he usually was but just enough to force you to wake up and abort. 
Just over a week ago I had my 25(OH) D level tested and it was 23.6 ng/ml.   I'm estimating that it's probably sitting 27 ng/ml area now.  I still have a quite a way to go to get out of the active CH area.  I increased the Vit D level yesterday to 15000 iu/day to try and speed up the process.  If I increase even more to 20 000 iu/day should I add extra calcium and magnesium?
It is interesting to note that when I was pf I was healthy but this past weekend came down with a bad cold.  I wonder if increased mouth breathing has effected my PH level bringing the beast back....
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #588 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 6:26am
 
MM&I,

Good question...  Upping the daily dose of vitamin D3 to 15,000 or 20,000 IU/day should get you into the green zone and hopefully pain free a little faster.  However, I don't think there's any need to increase the supplemental calcium intake above 500 mg/day at 15,000 IU/day vitamin D3 unless your diet is low in dairy products and food types high in calcium.   My wife and I take 15,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and 500 mg/day calcium is working just fine for both of us.

That said, when you reach 20,000 IU/day vitamin D3, it's likely a prudent move to bump the calcium supplements up to 750 mg/day and magnesium supplements up to 200 mg/day over the 90 mg. of magnesium you get from the calcium citrate tablets if you use the Kirkland brand or a similar formulation from Citracal.

What we're guarding against here with the extra calcium is the loss of bone mass.  Unfortunately, this is a relatively slow process and there's no good way of determining the impact of higher doses of vitamin D3 on bone mass without an ultrasonic bone density scan to determine a baseline and subsequent scans to see if there's any change.

Hope this helps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #589 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 11:12am
 
I just got the results from the latest blood test.  Vit. D (25-OH) is now at 212 nmol/L. 

I eat 5.000 and 10.000 IU every other day, and have done so since oct.1. From jul 1. to oct 1, it was 10.000 IU a day.

aug 24: 225 nmol/L
sep 28: 295  nmol/L
dec 05: 271 nmol/L
jan 05: 212 nmol/L  and for the first time my CA values are beyond normal range at 2,59 mmol/L - maybe because I've begun drinking milk again. I actually take only 166 mg CA. I have no explanation for the sharp decline in Vit D. levels   -20% in one month. But all December I've been sick with shingles. That may be the explanation.

I have been 100% PF since mid October and almost instantly 94% PF from July.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #590 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 1:23pm
 
Well unfortunately I seem to be getting worse. Days are okay but have gotten 4 HA a night the last few nights. I'm taking 20,000 IU D3, 500 mg Calcium Citrate w/ the mag, zinc and D3 daily.  Going for the 25 (OH) d test this morning and going to get a script for O2. Going to give that a go again. The last time I tried it (4 years ago), I did it wrong as I found out from Gregg. On the other hand I'm quite used to things not working  and just dealing with it so no surprise. I'll keep up with the vitamins anyways at least until I get the test results.......

The shitty part about this cycle is as an episodic for the last 30+ years is I just got over a 6 month right side cycle about 6 weeks ago only to go into a left side cycle 3 weeks later. Still hopeful though.

Rick  Wink
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #591 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 3:36pm
 
RTD wrote on Jan 13th, 2012 at 1:23pm:
Well unfortunately I seem to be getting worse. Days are okay but have gotten 4 HA a night the last few nights. I'm taking 20,000 IU D3, 500 mg Calcium Citrate w/ the mag, zinc and D3 daily.  Going for the 25 (OH) d test this morning and going to get a script for O2. Going to give that a go again. The last time I tried it (4 years ago), I did it wrong as I found out from Gregg. On the other hand I'm quite used to things not working  and just dealing with it so no surprise. I'll keep up with the vitamins anyways at least until I get the test results.......

The shitty part about this cycle is as an episodic for the last 30+ years is I just got over a 6 month right side cycle about 6 weeks ago only to go into a left side cycle 3 weeks later. Still hopeful though.

Rick  Wink


Rick,
Remain strong and let me know if you need anything locally.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #592 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 4:07pm
 
Hey Rick,

Sorry you're still having night hits...  Good move on having your 25(OH)D concentration tested...  That's the beauty of this regimen.  You can actually measure your progress with the results of this test. 

Starting back on oxygen therapy is also a good move.  Gregg has the breathing techniques down pat so you'll likely have much better results aborting your CH at higher oxygen flow rates that support hyperventilation.

Try taking at least half the vitamin D3 in the evenings before bed.  I'm beginning to think the serum concentration of cholecalciferol (vitamin D3) may be playing a role in preventing CH before the liver and kidneys metabolize it into 25(OH)D.  Adding another tablet of the calcium citrate might help as well.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #593 - Jan 13th, 2012 at 5:15pm
 
Hey Rune,

Sorry about the shingles...  another of life's more unpleasant maladies...  Joyce got hit with them in 2005 and it traveled down the nerves in her pitching arm...  She was a starting pitcher on her Congressional League Slow Pitch team for many years in the Washington DC area so had an excellent throwing arm...

After the shingles she picked up a wicked hitch in her delivery.  We now call her "Wild Thing."  No telling where the ball will go but it gets there with a lot of heat...

There may be a link between the drop in 25(OH)D and spike in total calcium...  Calcium homeostasis is normally very good at maintaining total serum calcium in a narrow range of 2.1 - 2.2 2.6 mmol/L so something is out of balance...  Did your labs include a test for Parathyroid Hormone (PTH) or magnesium levels? 

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch


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« Last Edit: Jan 15th, 2012 at 7:25am by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #594 - Jan 14th, 2012 at 6:45am
 
Hi Batch. 
Sorry about Joyce. Shingles are truly a bizarre illness. And I have of course wondered if it somehow is related to CH, but not found any link Smiley

As a matter of fact I've measured both Mg and S-PTH. Mg is steady at  0.9 mmol/L. PTH more varied:

sep 28: 2,0  pmol/L
oct 27: 2,4 pmol/L
dec 05: 2,1 pmol/L
jan 05: 1,9 pmol/L
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #595 - Jan 14th, 2012 at 9:43am
 
Last night was better, only 2 HA. Over the years my CH have  changed but the last few years, one thing has remained constant. I seem to get hit shortly after I eat and during the digestion process. So I only eat in the evening so I can deal with work stuff during the day. Like if I eat at 6:00 I'll get hit several times between 8:00 and 2:00. Like a 6 hour window depending when I eat. If I don't eat I either won't get hit or if I do, just one very mild hit. Anyone else relate to that or is it just me?

Anyhow went for my 25(OH)D test yesterday. Should have results sometime next week. And of course it was a fiasco explaining the O2 thing to my doc and doubt the insurance will cover, which is fine I'll just pay for it. It is a strange thing to be explaining to a doctor the proper treatment for something though.

Rick
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #596 - Jan 14th, 2012 at 11:48am
 
It is a strange thing to be explaining to a doctor the proper treatment for something though.

Good on you for taking the initiative and being your own advocate. We say it a lot, but it bears repeating. Sitting in front of your doc and saying "fix me" with CH, is a sure fire recipe for a LOT of pain.

Joe
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #597 - Jan 14th, 2012 at 4:54pm
 
Zeitgeist wrote on Jan 13th, 2012 at 11:12am:
aug 24: 225 nmol/L
sep 28: 295  nmol/L
dec 05: 271 nmol/L
jan 05: 212 nmol/L  and for the first time my CA values are beyond normal range at 2,59 mmol/L - maybe because I've begun drinking milk again. I actually take only 166 mg CA. I have no explanation for the sharp decline in Vit D. levels   -20% in one month. But all December I've been sick with shingles. That may be the explanation.

Sorry about the Shingles, my Mom had them in her eye and nearly went blind.

I wonder if sun exposure might explain your lower Vit D levels? Yet the Aug to Sept increase wouldn't jive with that assumption unless your levels were still increasing until they 'leveled off' between Aug & Sept.

Its very interesting so see fluctuations like that, and thanks for sharing. Kudos for getting tested so often.

Dairy and drinking milk seems to be the best way to get Calcium, 8-ounce glass of milk = 300 mg of calcium, so no surprise on the Calcium levels. I'd guess (without knowing your diet at all) that your getting 600-1200 mg of Calcium. Nice to see the translation to blood levels.

How much dairy to you consume in a day, if you don't mind me asking?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #598 - Jan 15th, 2012 at 7:11am
 
Hey Rune,

I want to thank you again for making your lab data available. It's very exciting to see the actual lab results of the anti-inflammatory regimen with vitamin D3 over time... More so knowing you're also PF...

I've sent you a paper on calcium homeostasis and a study by Dr. Robert Heaney, M.D.  I've pasted an excerpt from that study below.  Dr. Heaney is one of the Grand Masters of vitamin D3 therapy and research.  The findings below come from his 2003 study of four vitamin D3 dosage groups:  Group 1 taking no vitamin D3; Group 2 taking 1000 IU/day; Group 3 taking 5000 IU/day; and Group 4 taking 10,000 IU/day:

"Serum PTH rose by 6% during the winter in the zero-dosage group (from a beginning value of 32 pg/mL; P = 0.05), was unchanged in the intermediate-dosage groups, and fell by 24% in the highest-dosage group (from 29.5 pg/mL; P < 0.001). Across all groups, the change in PTH was inversely correlated with the actual cholecalciferol dose (P < 0.01). Serum calcium was measured at each visit in the 2 higher-dosage groups, but it did not change significantly from baseline (x–: 9.6 mg/dL) at any time point at either dose. The first and last serum calcium values for the 31 participants in the higher-dosage groups are shown in Figure 4. No value rose above the upper limit of normal, and, as is visually evident, treatment did not increase the dispersion of serum calcium values."


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Date    Vitamin D3    25(OH)D        PTH             Ca               Mg
Aug 24  10K  IU/d   225 nmol/L      
Sep 28  10K  IU/d   295 nmol/L  2.0 pmol/L    Normal        0.9 mmol/L
Oct 27  7.5K IU/d                      2.4 pmol/L    Normal        0.9 mmol/L
Dec 05  7.5K IU/d   271 nmol/L  2.1 pmol/L    Normal        0.9 mmol/L
Jan 05  7.5K IU/d    212 nmol/L  1.9 pmol/L  2.59 mmol/L  0.9 mmol/L

If I've captured the data accurately from your posts... I'd say your labs summarized in the table above, appear normal and consistent with your vitamin D3 intake and the resulting serum calcium levels.

The normal reference range for PTH is 1.1 - 7.5 pmol/L.  As your PTH levels are in the lower end of this range and PTH elevates to raise serum calcium via bone resorption and renal calcium reabsorption, it's likely the lower PTH levels reflect the higher serum calcium level as less of the PTH is needed.  The last total serum calcium listed as "High" at 2.59 mmol/L is still within the normal reference range of 2.1 to 2.6 mmol/L from available texts and Figure 4 above.  I had a typo in my previous post on the normal range of serum calcium concentration.

The drop in serum 25(OH)D appears to be consistent with the lower daily dose of vitamin D3 that you started after 1 Oct, and the gradual depletion of 25(OH)D reserves built up during the first three months at the higher vitamin D3 dose of 10,600 IU/day.  The accelerated drop in 25(OH)D indicated in your last labs could easily be due to an increased depletion of 25(OH)D reserves associated with a reduction in endrogenous vitamin D3 produced by the skin due to the absence of UVB exposure from lower angle sunlight there in Norway during the Winter months. 

I expect your serum 25(OH)D concentration will continue to drop until it reaches an equilibrium consistent with an average vitamin D3 dose of 7,500 IU/day.  Based on the vitamin D3 study results published by Dr. Heaney shown below and interpolating between a dose of 5,000 IU/day and 10,000 IU/day with the dark dashed line, I estimate that your 25(OH)D concentration will reach equilibrium and stabilize around 180 nmol/L ± 10 if you continue at an average vitamin D3 dose of 7,500 IU/day.

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This is exactly the kind of information we hope to collect in a formal study of this regimen's capacity to prevent CH compared with the prevailing standards of care preventative treatments shown in the following table.

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Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #599 - Jan 15th, 2012 at 7:51am
 
PlayDoh wrote on Jan 14th, 2012 at 4:54pm:

How much dairy to you consume in a day, if you don't mind me asking?


I estimate 16 ounces a day.  Except for milk, only butter.


Batch!  Fascinating - thanks!  You've got the numbers right. I will continue with the same amounts and take a new test in a month or so.
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