Would red twizzlers work?

                Potter

Hey Igenser,

Glad to see you've been getting relief.

It will be interesting to see what happens if other clusterheads try your approach, as I figure it would help rule out any coincidence factor with your CH stopping at the same time that you started the licorice tincture.

I didn't realize that about the herbal tinctures having the "whole plant" advantage. Going a bit off topic for a sec here, but what do you think about herbal teas in general - do they involve  too much heat, killing the active compounds, or are they still useful?

I have heard the virtues of licorice root extolled before, but whatever connection there may between black licorice and licorice root...I know I, and others, have linked licorice as a fairly consistent trigger. Also, I remember there being evidence that a CH was preceded by a serotonin storm, which is a bad thing, and wonder if increasing sorotonin would be a good thing for CHs. Having taken GABA in the past and finding it worsened the cycle, I have my doubts. But then again, I could be mixing up all sorts of homeopathic errors here. Time to exit. lance

wimsey1 wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 7:50am:

Actually, from what I'm reading this stuff acts like a serotonin re-uptake inhibitor, which can be effective in threating CH.  I would be cautious taking it in conjunction with any anti-depressants or 5HTP (which some people here use).  I think it could work............

1. I'm not selling anything. I thought I made that very clear. I also thought I made clear that I have suffered CH for 37 years and counting. I apologize if anyone had trouble following; I am certainly not trying for any literary prizes here.  I also did not intend to post twice. As I might have mentioned, I have not been near a computer in years. Sorry.
2. "black licorice", most licorice candy in fact contains no licorice at all, rather it contains anise. Licorice root is quite different.
3. "Serotonin storm" is an apt term but what is not understood by ANYONE is whether that means excessive production of serotonin, depletion and uptake of serotonin, or some other mechanism. I think the most apt metaphor would be to think of it as a short circuiting of normal circadian process in the hypothalamus resulting in wildly fluctuating imbalance.As I said, this particular herb is a genius at balancing. Consider this; You are probably familiar with the ability of psylocibin to abort clusters almost instantly. Psylocibin metabolizes as psylocin, an indole which is virtually structurally identical to serotonin. It is presumed that the psylocin replaces serotonin on receptor sites; hence my hypothesis that preventing serotonin uptake would be a good thing. Also. since cortisol has been shown to be depleted in clusters, the ability of licorice root to inhibit the breakdown of cortisol and balance other adrenals seems important.
4. The off topic question: herbal teas and decoctions in water can be extremely effective; it all depends on the specific herb. For example, milk thistle (which is a miracle in itself) is widely marketed as a tea but it is useless therapeutically since sylimarin, the active ingredient in the herb, is soluble in alcohol but not water. Don't trust the clerk in the GNC or whatever to know any more than you do. They ARE trying to sell stuff.
5. CORRECT: Do not take licorice root with MAO inhibitors or some other antidepressants, or if you are medicated for hypertension, or if you suffer from osteoporosis, kidney disease, or if you are pregnant. As I tried to be clear about, I'm trying to discuss an herb not dispense medical advice. Always check with your Doctor. Of course, the odds are extremely high that your Doctor will know next to nothing about herbs. Or, for that matter, how most of the pharms they prescribe actually work. I will tell you this: Licorice root is a far more efficient serotonin reuptake inhibitor than any MAO inhibitor on the market today, has virtually no deleterious effects when taken at proper levels, no side effects to speak of, and can be stopped instantly without titreing down. And its cheap. Please don't take my word for ANY of this information: Do the research.
6. The other off topic question: Whole plant herbal products are always superior to "Scientifically" produced extracts. Does anyone really think we can improve on millions of years of evolution? (sorry creationists). Example: Garlic. This plant is a proven and reliable antiviral and antibacterial agent. It will stop respiratory infections, colds, flu, even kills (documented) antibiotic resistant pneumonia. It is also available, cheap, in the supermarket. This annoys the crap out of makers of "natural" products.  Garlic is a chemical slurry of about 35-50 active compounds, all working synergistically. How do we know which ones are necessary? Put up with the bad breath and take the whole herb. "Extracts" and their lack of effectiveness have given many viable herbal remedies a bad name.
7. I assume you are joking, but no twizzlers will not work. As I said, licorice candy generally contains no licorice at all.
8. This part is serious: In answer, I think to another good point raised, the tincture did NOT terminate the cluster, so I am relatively sure the results I'm getting are not coincidental with it just spontaneously ending. This is what is happening now: I am still experiencing the 'metabolic' disturbances; I have been waking up at what are the usual intervals with the flushing, hot flashes and other peripherals that generally would have me up and going for the ice packs. I have had this happen only once during waking hours.... But what is different is that these disturbances do NOT escalate or lead to any significant pain. I have just kind of noted them (and to really feel whats going on in the triggering process has been very valuable) and after a few minutes they fade and I have gone back to sleep. I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe the cluster is still with me; it just doesn't hurt, if that makes any sense.
9. I briefly looked at some of the posts on the boards last night; as I said I have had these f-ing things since I was 20 years old. I went through the years of misdiagnosis, the youthful fears I was dying of brain tumors, the condescension of doctors, the fear of going anywhere or doing anything and the shame of "ruining" occasions with an unpredictable invisible illness I had no control over. I have been to the same places you all have, and my heart goes out to all of you.
I am not at all invested in whether anyone follows my suggestions or not. I have very rarely accepted any money for any of the things I have made for people or animals; I consider it part of my karmic obligation.
I am invested in stopping the pain, primarily my own. I'm quite certain you all know why. If it helps anyone else, I will be very happy.
I'll check back at some point later if I can answer any other questions. Thank you for being here.

Man I'm starting to get a hankering for some licorice tincture! 

I have read about the wide health benefits of licorice root before, and I certainly love the flavor of Yogi brand Egyptian licorice tea.   

I think I've seen some tinctures on the market before that are alcohol free - would be nice if there is a  high quality licorice root one, since so many many of us clusterheads (including myself) have become so deathly afraid of even a hint of the booze.

I also remember someone saying once that if you leave your tincture dose in an open cup for half an hour the alcohol will evaporate off? Hmm maybe that was for putting tincture in a tea or something...

lgenser wrote on Dec 15^th, 2010 at 1:32pm:


Certainly not the first time I've heard that - from what I remember, it's a fairly commonly reported experience over at the clusterbusters.com forum amongst CH'ers who have busted with psilocybin.

Excessive consumption of liquorice or liquorice candy is known to be toxic to the liver[20] and cardiovascular system, and may produce hypertension [21] and oedema.[22] In occasional cases blood pressure has increased with excessive consumption of liquorice tea, but such occasions are rare and reversible when the herb is withdrawn.[23] Most cases of hypertension from liquorice were caused by eating too much concentrated liquorice candy.[24] Doses as low as 50 grams (2 oz) of liquorice daily for two weeks can cause a significant rise in blood pressure.[25]

The European Commission 2008 report suggested that “people should not consume any more than 100mg of glycyrrhizic acid a day, for it can raise blood pressure or cause muscle weakness, chronic fatigue, headaches or swelling, and lower testosterone levels in men.”

Be Careful!

julyn wrote on Dec 16^th, 2010 at 2:29pm:

Imitrex can cause immediate death...........

Quote:

And people endorse this stuff here all the time.

Thank you for that post lgenser.

If I had read this thread a week ago, I would certainly have tried it.  So I bump this one.

For now, I'm fighting the thing with the clusterbuster, high dose of vit.D3 (after reading Batch's post) and Tongkat ali which is suppose to increase testosterone levels.  Adding to the mix 9mg of melatonin at bed time and I'm doing quite well.

PFDAN to all

edit: added (after reading Batch's post)

I see no replies on this one for a while so excuse me commenting on such an old thread.

Is there something wrong with the search or is there simply no discussion about Liquorice root protocol ? I searched with "liqorice" and "liquorice" and came up with nothing.

I am a bit astonished to say at least. I have been using liquorice root (with skull cap as adviced) ever since Les Genser shared this protocol and have quite a few fellow finns who have had success with it as well. I just came to this board and thought it would be a subject lot talked about. But not much talk or maybe I just can't find it ?

Does not sound dumb at all, I certainly had never heard of them before Les published his protocol. You can find it at our finnish CH site for an example.

EDIT: It seems I can not post links before I have 10 posts so just copy this to your address bar:
sites.google.com/site/hortoninneuralgia/resurssit/englanti/liquorice-root-protoc
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