Posted by Flash (188.8.131.52) on January 15, 2002 at 12:55:59:
In Reply to: Getting to the bottom of CH causes posted by david on January 15, 2002 at 01:27:40:
First off I probably have more experience of this treatment than anyone else. I have used it with success since the beginning of 1993.
Be warned hallucinogens are not a cure. They also treat the symptoms - they're just better at it!
Does it work - yes! However there is a major problem with this treatment... expectations. If someone goes to the doctor and is prescribed a drug and it doesn't work for them, the doctor will usually prescribe an alternative sister drug. In every instance where someone has failed with hallucinogenics, there has been:
a) interaction with other drugs.
b) failure to determine if the substance they ingested was actually hallucinogenic.
c) incorrect storage or preparation resulting in destruction of the hallucinogen.
d) leaving it to peak cycle (much harder to break the cycle there).
e) taking too small a dose.
f) not taking enough doses / not dosing at the correct frequency
g) failure to procure enough hallucinogen leading to f)
h) only trying one hallucinogen, or one species of mushroom
So below me on this list we have Tim M - he acknowleges the Lithium, and if memory serves me there is a definite interaction there. So imagine you have an infection and the doc prescribes an antibiotic, but instructs you that drinking will prevent the antibiotic from functioning. You decide to drink regardless. It would be unfair of you to submit data regarding that antibiotic. So it wasn't shrooms that failed for Tim M... it was Tim M that failed for shrooms.
Then we have BobP. Bob got b) through g) correct, but only tried one hallucinogen and a single species of mushroom at that. So all we can ascertain in Bob's case is that Psilocybe Cubensis did not work for him this episode. Also I need to remind Bob that initially there was some disruption to his cycle, however at that point he begain a course of medication that persisted through his subsequent attempts with the hallucinogen. Now we don't know if Pred interacts or not - but it's hardly fair of him to say that the hallucinogen did fuck all.
Now Margi's Mike has had similar results to myself. I also find that leaving the treatment to peak cycle makes it much harder - if not impossible to break. But previously he experienced a 27 month remission punctuated by the beginnings of a handful of episodes. The same happens to me. Neither of us had a history of this prior to taking the hallucinogens.
Now BobP raised the issue that successes we've seen to date might all have coincided with longer than normal remissions. I'd have to dispute that as being too much of a coincidence. We have reports of people chronic for 20 years entering remission within minutes of taking hallucinogens and subsequently sustaining that remission for a significant period of time.
Also most people that have experienced success haven't bothered coming back to this board again, or at best infrequently. The people left on this board are largely beyond your help anyway. Pinky and myself kept each other) interested with it for a while, but to be honest I feel I've done my share. I notice pinky hasn't been around much either.
Look on the hallucinogenic site (link supplied) and you'll find post archives, courtesy of Ueli, with every single success and failure. You won't find a single failure without at least one of the factors listed above being present.
If you do attempt treatment using hallucinogenics then avoid those pitfalls - then report back here.
The only thing I have left to do is get the survey up and running. Erowid are taking care of that and it's almost completed. After that all the necessary information will have been published. It's up to the sufferers themselves whether they bother to safeguard it.
A couple of years back another sufferer told me I was wasting my time here. I disagree - and you only have to scan my inbox to see why - but I know where he was coming from. CH is a terrible condition, but too many people play on that aspect. That guy emailed me the following:
It's an odd feeling to be repeatedly required to ATTEMPT to set the
record straight and have it constantly ignored, misinterpreted and/or
I applaud you for keeping it up.
Personally, I'm wondering if the focus of my attempts to gain media
notice isn't wasted on these Clusterheads.
I think you and I both want the same thing -- serious attention to the
condition and legal use of whatever treatments we desire.
My focus -- insofar as the media is concerned -- is upon the devastating
impact of these headaches upon so many lives, suicide being just one of them.
But, the CH message board has not produced much in the way of support for
our projects (speaking for myself, anyway), despite their continual cries for
understanding and better treatments. They seem to be in a fog of some sort.
For that reason, I doubt that I will do much more with the mesage board
than an occasional joke or simple observation.
Although...I've been thinking about posting an outrageous theory I've
developed about Clusters and those who get them. It's a post that could get
Maybe I'll write it out and send it to you first to obtain your comments,
since you have had far more experience with this particular group of folks
than have I.
*** And these are the highlights of his theory, in his own words ***
1) -- In general, the longer you have these headaches, the less you will
want them to go away;
(2) -- You can bring on a cluster attack simply by acting as if you are
(3) -- Clusterheads eventually develop a "love-hate" relationship with the
actual pain, further suggesting that a deeper, psychological (or spiritual)
essence is contained within them. The Clusterhead will nearly always deny
(4) -- Clusterheads develop a lifestyle which is compatible with their
affliction. Once they have embraced this lifestyle they will protect it at
great cost, finding that they can blame most of their woes and/or
shortcomings upon the condition which they claim to hate so much.
Basically he was right in that for the last 4 (yes F O U R fuckin years) I have approached this issue from the perspective that everyone felt as I did, and wanted shot of their headaches. Uh uh! Despite his advice it still took me all this time to reach the same conclusions has he did. Heh heh - they don't call me Flash for nothing you know!!!
The point is that I came here to share a powerful and effective treatment. I ended spending more time trying to convince people that they should want rid of their headaches. Now at this point you'll find that 4) listed above kicks in (provided anyone has gotten this far with my post). However events speak for themselves (my friend would be proud of what follows):
1) The majority of people that use the treatment successfully never come back to this board.
2) Those that experience success and do return, often undergo a relapse. Do they feel left out?
3) The more evidence that hallucinogens were a truely effective treatment - the less interested people got.
4) Some people flocked to the treatment when it was new and unproven. "You're right!" they cried. The next week those same people were posting the same things about changing your lightbulbs.
I felt a bit like Napoleon waking up in a mental home and saying "Hi I'm Napoleon Boneparte", and everyone says "Me too" or "Hi I'm Jesus Christ", or "No I'm Napoleon not you!".
It's also a bit like going to Northern Ireland and trying to explain that Catholic and Protestant are both part of the same religion. People just don't want to know. Let them get on with it.
What finally did it for me was that I spent about 15 - 30 minutes every day keeping up to date with this message board. I calculated that this was going to add up to something close to a year over the course of my life - it just isn't worth it. If the response had been greater I would have kept it up, but not the way things are. Fuck it - my email address is all over the place, if someone wants advice they can contact me direct.
You know - it just occurred to me, perhaps the drug companies already have this all figured out. Why bother spending R&D on a drug that people don't want. There is a bigger market for a horrible condition that doesn't kill than there is in an effective treatment for it LOL!
What you have is every losers dream - the ultimate excuse. Why would anyone want to lose their get out of jail free card? The thing they forget is that they built the prison for themsleves in the first place.
Anyway, sorry you got most of my closing rant - whoever you are.
Develop CH! Remove all pressure from your life. Have an excuse to moan your life away. A psychiatrist (particularily one in the mould of Israel Regardie) would do more for some of the people here than any mushroom could ever hope to accomplish.
Good Luck :) Keep me posted!
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