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Topic: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients (Read 3163 times) |
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #100 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 8:21am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 8:00am, BobG wrote:
You're right Scott. And calling cluster attacks headaches is very under-dramatic. It should have a better or stronger descriptive name.
BTW, we did not start calling it phantom. That name came from the scientific/medical community. |
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Maybe it was the theatre department at a large medical school.... 
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BobG
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #101 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 8:41am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 8:21am, seasonalboomer wrote:
Maybe it was the theatre department at a large medical school.... |
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Yeah, coulda been. Or the medical school at Barnum and Bailey's.
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Margi
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #102 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:16am » |
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well, whatEVER. I'm with BobG on this one. Silent attacks (or phantom, if you want) ARE real. They DO indicate some kind of cluster activity. All of the cluster symptoms are there, except the pain. They vanish after the duration of a normal painful attack. For Mike, they only hit him when he's in remission. Just because everyone doesn't get them, doesn't mean they don't exist. And that sure as SHIT doesn't make them migraines, either! They may not be full-blown cluster attacks, but maybe just a silent reminder that this is a life-long affliction and it's always there, just waiting in the wings. Maybe it's an episodic thing. Maybe chronics don't get it.
Man, what I'd give to see one of these silent attacks again now, instead of the hideous crap Mike's going through now.
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #103 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:21am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 9:16am, Margi wrote:
Hey, who are you whatevering?
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seasonal boomer
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Margi
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #104 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:41am » |
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no one in particular, Scott, just the rejection of the idea that silent cluster attacks exist.
They do exist. I've seen 'em.
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nani
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #105 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:46am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 9:16am, Margi wrote: Maybe chronics don't get it.
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I never had one until I started kudzu, then I had many. And I've had one with shrooms. Which for me at least, suggests that as a chronic my pain receptors never "turn off" unless I'm taking something that turns them off.
So, I wonder, do they turn off on their own in episodics?
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Jeepgun
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #106 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:49am » |
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I went the other way, on kudzu: I got the pain, (vastly reduced in intensity, duration, and frequency) but none of the other symptoms. While on the kudzu, I didn't have the hanging eyelid, the stopped-up nostril, the spiking body temperature, or the unilateral "face-melt."
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #107 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:49am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 9:41am, Margi wrote:no one in particular, Scott, just the rejection of the idea that silent cluster attacks exist.
They do exist. I've seen 'em.
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semantics are very important. especially here in the land of split hairs.
I've had'em happen too. But, semantically it's clearly not a cluster headache.
From my list I've now chosen ROACH (Reminiscent of a Cluster Headache). Usen conversationally, I'll be able to say that "I had a "Roach" last night, thank goodness it stayed a roach and then went away." When you get ROACH's you don't have to do anything, just let it crawl around awhile and then crawl back in from where it came. ROACH's aren't pretty to look at but they don't bite.
okay, I've carried the idea too far. reeling myself back in as I speak....
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Margi
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #108 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:55am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 9:49am, seasonalboomer wrote:
okay, I've carried the idea too far. reeling myself back in as I speak....
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LOL kewl. Yer learnin.
Nani, what you say makes a lot of sense. I firmly believe that episodic and chronic cluster are different beasts in a lot of ways. Maybe the pain receptor gate latch is broken in chronics, yet not in episodics. I guess the next logical question then would be - do silent attacks hit any episodics while IN cycle? I'm betting they don't.
Also, interesting to note that alcohol isn't always a trigger for chronics but the same is not usually true for episodics.
Things that make you go "hmmmm....".
Definitely food for though, isn't it?
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nani
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #109 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 9:57am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 9:49am, seasonalboomer wrote:
semantically it's clearly not a cluster headache.
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You're right. It's a phantom CH. And Scott, lay off the roaches willya... they're more potent than the joints and they make you carry ideas way too far.
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #110 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 10:17am » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 9:57am, nani wrote:
You're right. It's a phantom CH. |
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Is not.
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nani
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #111 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 1:24pm » |
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Is so. 
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Sean_C
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #112 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:19pm » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 5:53am, BobG wrote:
You just don't get it do you?
What you are saying is that because you have never experienced a phantom cluster headache then they do not exist, right?
Even though the others here have told of their experience of having the symptoms but no pain and even though it have been documented scientifically there is no such thing as a phantom cluster headache because you have never had one.
Then you bring out your dictionary that gives a definition of the word phantom that has absolutely nothing to do with headaches as proof there are no phantom cluster headaches.
And please stop the crap about phantom being another word for shadows. 2 entirely different things. Shadows are low level attacks with minor pain. Phantoms have the symptoms but no pain.
1. Cluster attacks with symptoms and pain and measurable on the Kip scale.
2. Shadows are low level attacks with symptoms and pain and measurable on the Kip scale.
3. Phantoms are attacks with the symptoms but no pain.
Do you get it now?
Maybe you should go to a cancer victims board and tell the sufferers there that cancer does not exist because you have never had it.
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Who the fuck are you Bob? Scientific what? What can you give me? Some idiotic link to some internet web page doesn't mean anything to me Bob. 1 person responded to that thread. You get it ONE.
For you to tell me there's a NEW AND IMPROVED condition of cluster headaches called "THE PHANTOM KIND" blows me away.
Get fucked Bob, you don't have a fucking clue regarding your own condition do you? Painless clusters exist in medicated cluster patients or unmedicated patients? Back it up aszhole because YOU seem to know it all. You just don't fucking get it do you. Why don't you go up to the cancer ward and tell those patients they might not have beat there cancer it might still be there in the form of phantom cells................your an assz 
Fuck off Bob.
Margi and Nan don't respond anymore this is between me and Boob. I apologise Margi and Nan, please cover your eyes
Sean..........................................
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| « Last Edit: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:21pm by Sean_C » |
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E-Double
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #113 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:22pm » |
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Easy fellas
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Sean_C
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #114 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:26pm » |
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Eric let him come and get me himself bud, he's a big boy.
Thanks
Sean..........................
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seasonalboomer
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #115 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:29pm » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 2:19pm, Sean_C wrote:
Margi and Nan don't respond anymore this is between me and Boob. I apologise Margi and Nan, please cover your eyes
Sean..........................................
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I'm going to cover mine too
that post left burn marks on the inside of my screen
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nani
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #116 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:33pm » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 2:29pm, seasonalboomer wrote:
left burn marks on the inside of my screen |
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Dude... get a roach clip!
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Jeepgun
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #117 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:46pm » |
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/wiping the peanuts and corn out of my eyes and hair...
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Jonny
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #118 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 2:52pm » |
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on Aug 21st, 2005, 3:01am, CHTom wrote:| I don't usually feel my CH pain, even if it is at a kip 10 |
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So, tell us how you know its a Kip 10?
on Aug 25th, 2005, 6:06am, AussieBrian wrote:
I've had "attacks" with no pain at all and thought, 'My God. If this one was real it would blow the Kip scale off the map!' |
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Really!...just how do you know that?
Bob, it seems that some people that get these painless clusters can actually rate them on the Kip scale. Since when can you rate pain if there is no pain?
"Cluster Headache" .....that means pain
A droppy eye and snotty nose is not a cluster headache
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
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Margi
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #119 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 3:46pm » |
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Jonny, you're absolutely right - there is no pain involved with these silent/phantom things. (that's why I say cluster "activity" in my post above). There's no "ache" involved in a phantom. Rating a silent "attack" (and I'm learning to use that term loosely) on a scale of 1 - 10 is kinda ridiculous if you ask me. It's either there or it's not, but I've never seen varying degrees of intensity with Mike's silent attacks whatchamacallits.
Sean, seriously - about BobG. He's a good guy and his post really does make a lot of sense. Shadows are a form of cluster. So are phantoms. Just like some people are chronic, some are episodic, not every clusterhead is the same. Not everyone experiences all of the cluster spectrum - Mike rarely gets shadows. Only ever at the beginning or tail end of a cycle (maybe, Nani, when his pain gate is opening/closing?). Never during cycles, never during remission. The phantom thingies only hit him in remission. When he's in cycle, it's all or nothing (mostly all though).
I know you told me and Nani to shut up, but ... well, that's never stopped me before. BobG's a good guy and he's speaking wisdom on this one. He's no more an a-hole than you are, Sean (read: you're both good guys) and he really does know a lot about this condition. I'm having a hard time understanding why you're having a hard time accepting the concept of phantoms. to me, there are three degrees of cluster: phantom/silent cluster (where only the neurological symptoms show, but pain never blooms),
shadows - the precursor of cluster headaches, lower pain level and (in my opinion, should not yet be allowed to be on the Kip Scale) but whaddoIknow;
and then full blown cluster headaches (stupid, hideous pain levels that sometimes surpass what Obiwon Kip was able to describe.)
my two cents and now, officially and obediently, shutting up. 
Peace, Sean.
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And, on the Eighth Day...God created Beer (to stop the Canadians from taking over the world)
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Jonny
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #120 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 4:13pm » |
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on Aug 26th, 2005, 3:46pm, Margi wrote:| (that's why I say cluster "activity" in my post above). |
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BINGO...Margi, that seems to be along the lines of whats happening. its the "Kip 10 that I cant feel" that got my ass
And yes, Boob jr is a great guy, but if he posted to me what he did to Sean and I did not know him well.....I would have blasted his ass also.....LMAO
Fuck this!!, im going to Vegas with Bob
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It is up to YOU to educate yourself and then help your doctor plan your treatment. If you just sit down in front of your doctor and say "make me better" you are setting yourself up for a great deal of pain.
- Guiseppi
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Sean_C
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #121 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 4:20pm » |
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A fucking troll started this whole mess, that fucker
I got nothing against Bob, he just got a little snitty thats all
No harm done, I'm going back to rowing, fuck this troll shit
Sean..........................................
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Lizzie2
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #122 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 4:25pm » |
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Hrmmm...I don't even get it.
I guess for me - a phantom and a shadow would be the same thing - if I'm going by the definitions made above!
No shadow, phantom, whatever goes above the baseline of my chronic daily headache - so the only way I notice it is if I get the autonomic symptoms - red, tearing eye, congestion, and on down the line. If it were based on pain being present or not, and to some degree or not, I'd have no idea. Takes a CH hit to blow past my baseline.
So guess I'm out of the box again.
Ah well.....live and learn...daily. 
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Margi
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #123 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 4:33pm » |
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ok, let's take one more run at this.
Three possible phases of cluster.
Silent Cluster. (or "phantom" if you prefer) - no pain, but some or all of the other symptoms present. Distinguishing factor of this phase is NO PAIN.
Cluster Shadow. Precursor to cluster pain, but much lower intensity than that of full blown cluster headache.
Cluster Headache. full blown, head banging, reason why we're all here pain. This phase is the only phase that registers on the Kip Scale as we know it.
Three separate faces of the beast. Not experienced by every sufferer.
Miller time for me. Cya Monday. Be nice to each other!
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And, on the Eighth Day...God created Beer (to stop the Canadians from taking over the world)
source unknown
IMHO (which in my universe is correct)
kathy copelin, ch.com 8/8/06
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Sean_C
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Re: Suicide and CH/Migraine Patients
« Reply #124 on: Aug 26th, 2005, 4:36pm » |
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Guys we HAVE to let this thread die
Its got a troll snickering everytime someone post.
Row elsewhere
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