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Chillrmn1
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is ready to
« Reply #25 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 6:30am »
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Hi Squanto,
 
Hope to see your CH benefitted. Whether you stop dosing or not, please continue to update us on your condition.  
 
Just a thought, you did appear to benefit from the much smaller dose the first go round, without the uncomfortable side effects. Possibly this would be better suited for you, as in sputs.
 
Again, please keep us informed on how you're doing regardless of how you treat your CH.
 
Edited to add: You may also want to consider Vig's suggestion on trying the seeds. Lots of folks have reported success with the seeds including myself.
 
PFDANs to you.
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2005, 6:50am by Chillrmn1 » IP Logged
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #26 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 11:51am »
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As Chillrmn just said, if you need to do a maintenance dose, consider the seeds.  
Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds are natural of course, and you won't have any of the undesirable side effects.  
 
Ask any of us where to buy them. Don't go to a flower/plant store, as their seeds are often treated with pesticides. You could get sick from that.
 
Out of curiosity, did you ever do any psychedelics in your youth? Or was this your very first time... just wondering.
I have never heard of such bad reactions to mushrooms before with such low dose.  
 
Do you know what kind of mushrooms they were (cambodians, equadorians, ???)
Some species have more of a kick and psychedelic properties than others.
 
Also, I asked you before, but did you eat prior to taking them?  
 
Do you have any other conditions besides CH? Physical or mental?
 
I'm just trying to figure out why you got so "sick".
 
Also, keep in mind that the first 4-5 days after dosing can be hellish as far as the hits go. Don't be too concerned if you get more attacks at different hours than your regular hits. Make sure you have 02 available and suck on it the minute you feel any twinges in your head.
 
Please keep us posted and again, best of luck to you!
 
Rex
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #27 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 12:31pm »
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Rex, the shrooms Squanto used were Mexican.
 
Note from Wikipedia:
 
Quote:

Please note that individual brain chemistry plays a significant role in determining appropriate doses. For a modest psychedelic effect, a minimum of one gram of dried cubensis mushrooms is ingested orally. 0.25-1 gram is usually sufficient to produce a mild effect, 1-2.5 grams usually provides a moderate effect. 2.5 grams and higher usually produces strong effects. For most people, 3.5 dried grams (1/8 oz) would be considered a high dose and likely to produce a very intense experience. Above this, the mushroom experience rapidly becomes overwhelming. For a few rare people, doses as small as 0.25 grams can produce full-blown effects normally associated with very high doses. For most people, however, that dose level would result in virtually no effects.

 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stropharia_cubensis
 
BB
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2005, 12:33pm by BikerBob » IP Logged
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #28 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 12:47pm »
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Thanks Bob...  Wink
Well, he did ok the first time with 2 fresh caps, except for the burps and the one fart! Grin
I know that 2 fresh caps is probably not much at all, and I think the age factor has something to do with it.
But, again, you're right... doses can affect you a different way from one day to another! I'm speaking from experience...
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #29 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 1:27pm »
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First to answer some of the questions
 
1) I ate a light lunch (fruit and Doritos chips) I dosed 3 hours later. Stomach should have been pretty much empty by then.
 
2) No, I never did psychelics in my youth (see I can't even spell it) And the number of times I've been commode hugging drunk is less than 2-3. (Tip: Don't ever try to eat a Balute (sp?), an aged fertilized egg, in the Phillipines when you're sober.)
 
3) I'm in good health. Actually, I think I'm a pretty young 70 year old. Of course, folks in their 30's-40's might find that hard to believe. (Just wait, guys. ) No medical problems except the chronic CH ( aka Hemicrania continua ICD Code Hemicrania:346.9 ) Taking no medications for any medical problem.
 
4) The Amazing Nature grow kit was sold to me as Stropharia cubensis, which I believe is the European name for Psilocybin cubensis. Are they also called "Mexican?" When I compare pictures of the P C's to mine they look alike - whatever that means.
 
5) When I (carefully) weighed the dry product, it looked to my untrained eye to be about what 2-3 fresh caps would have looked like dried.  After the storm started I was pretty sure I'd screwed the pooch and taken too much. But there wasn't anything I could think of to do except ride it out.
 
It's now coming up on 23 hours since started to drink the tea. Today has been sorta hungover feeling. Not really a classic cluster headache, but "headachy" if that makes any sense. Sorta a mild tension type headache, kinda want to take an aspirin or two, but I'll tough it out.  
 
Prior to dosing I'd seen someone's (Flash ?) suggestion to "work up a sweat" the day after. I did that. Didn't hurt but didn't seem to help either. Early this morning I was really thirsty and chugged a lot of water/Gatorade. Early-on my stomach was a little queasy - but now after lunch it's okay.
 
A friend who has a history of doing strange things back in the 60's says  I'm in the "guilt phase." Right now I say never again, but in a few days when/if the headache comes back, I'll say, "Well, maybe."  Right now I don't buy that.
 
I'll try to leave feedback here as long as it seems relevant.
 
Squanto
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #30 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 1:38pm »
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Squanto, thanks for your reply.
Well, if you had never touched any psychedelics before, yep, 2gr could be a heavy load for you.
From the description you gave "I began to see very pretty color changes to the paintings we have on our living room walls", it seems to me that you were doing good but suddenly realized that "Hey, this ain't exactly normal".
It's important to stay calm, enjoy whatever is happening, listen to some soothing music and lay down. Sweating is actually very frequent. The problem is, if you begin to panick, things can go wrong... anxiety, paranoia, etc...
 
If you consider redosing, please read about LSA!
Hawaiian Baby woodrose
Morning glory seeds
or Rivea Corymbosa
 
It's very effective and some members here had very good success with it, including myself.
Again, without the visuals, nausea, sweating, etc...
 
I do not doubt that you're a young 70 y.o! Grin
Otherwise you wouldn't have tried the alternative treatment!
 
Hence the "Balls Of The Year" award you got from Mr. Happy!
 
Let us know how you're doing. So far, what you're describing is perfectly normal. Go ahead and take aspirin, if that works for you.  
 
Take care,
Rex
« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2005, 4:29pm by rextangle » IP Logged
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is ready to
« Reply #31 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 1:49pm »
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I can relate to some information that may help in the next coming few days.
 
There are some folks who will get hit just post dose (6-8 hours), and then the hits taper quickly over the next 2-3 days and they remain PF for a period of time, while still others do not get hit again untill day 2 or 3 after dosing and then they taper off to PF time.  Each person is different in this but this appears to be the two main patterns.  BobW (or someone else) will correct me if I'm wrong.  
 
If the hits come again in a few days please do not panic.  Give it a day or two and hit the 02 and see where it goes.  
 
On a positive note, I know of one sufferer who has taken the LSA seeds and has had no trippy effect at all, and has gone from his usual 3-4 hits per night every night to 1 hit every other night.  That is a dramatic improvement in my book.  
 
Keep us posted please. twocents
 
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #32 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 5:47pm »
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rextangle wrote:
Well, if you had never touched any psychedelics before, yep, 2gr could be a heavy load for you.
From the description you gave "I began to see very pretty color changes to the paintings we have on our living room walls", it seems to me that you were doing good but suddenly realized that "Hey, this ain't exactly normal".
It's important to stay calm, enjoy whatever is happening, listen to some soothing music and lay down. Sweating is actually very frequent. The problem is, if you begin to panick, things can go wrong... anxiety, paranoia, etc...
 
Somebody reported getting the "giggles" with a low dose.  Well, I might have giggled once when the colors of the paintings started to change.  I was really trying to stay calm and intended to enjoy the ride.  Then bottom dropped out. At the height of the experience I was determined I was going keep track of any unusual visual things.  But with the sweats, twitch, inability to stay still and trying to convince my wife that she didn't have to call 9-1-1, I didn't see a damn thing worth writing home about.  I remember thinking, " I can't believe folks do this for fun!"
 
Right now I'm doing okay. A little tired, but I purposely skipped my afternoon nap Us "old folk" like to take naps you know. No headache.
 
Squanto
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #33 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 6:31pm »
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Well, at least your head is still good. If you had try this... uh 50 years ago, you would probably had a better time.
I hope that you stay pain free so that even if your experience wasn't enjoyable, it'll pay off!
Stay in touch,
Rex
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is ready to
« Reply #34 on: Oct 16th, 2005, 10:27pm »
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Squanto
Sorry to hear about your "bad trip."
About a year ago I decided to try the shrooms. I sort of entered into to this blindly and did not have any help with the ordering of spores. So I made my best guess, which turned out to be a Mexican strain. When I finaly was ready to harvest, I was lucky enough to find Cluster Busters and some good advice. I am close to your age, and also have had no previous experiance. My first cup of tea was 1.5g and I was mildly uncomfortable for about 30 minutes. Then I relaxed and enjoyed the next couple hours but no real "tripping."
Five days later I uped the dose to 2g. I was very uncomtable and didn't care for the effects. So, I guess what I'm saying is don't give up---just keep your doses at 1g dried----tea is supposed to keep the nausea at the minium. I keep my doses at 1.5 or less.  I started this last spring at the beginning of a cycle. And it took 4 doses---plus a few sputs to put a stop to the cycle.
I have experimented with the seeds to knock shadows.
I am very sensitive to them also. I use less than what is suggested----except for one mistake when I over did that.  
I haven't been at this very long, but this summer/fall has been the best in years.
I understand that there are less trippy shrooms, and everyone should do whats best for them. We don't always get it right the first time---but I know the results make up for our efforts.  
Age---who knows? Paranoia--maybe? Experiance---probalby helps.  
Good luck---maybe that last dose did the trick--and that's what counts.   Sophie Wink
 
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #35 on: Oct 17th, 2005, 2:14pm »
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I'm now 48 hours "post-dose."
 
When I awakened this morning I was pain free. Yaaay! But within an hour slowly developed a dull pain behind left eye and on left side of head. Booo! Maybe a KIP one and half.  Has persisted most of the day.  A little grumpy today - but that may be normal for me. Smiley
 
No real "hits" yet (thank God!) Last night I had a series of what I'd call "mini-flashes."  Sharp sudden pain in the left eye. Lasting only seconces and maybe a minute apart. Went on for about 10 minutes and then went away.  Hasn't come back.
 
And so it goes
 
Squanto
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #36 on: Oct 17th, 2005, 3:58pm »
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Thanks for the update Squanto!
I suggest you use 02 as soon as you feel any discomfort.
It seems to me that you have them under control. Now, make sure they stay like that and do everything you can to prevent the attacks from ramping up.
Keep us updated.
Thanks and good luck to you
Rex
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Chillrmn1
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is ready to
« Reply #37 on: Oct 17th, 2005, 5:14pm »
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Agree with Rex.......looks like you're getting a positive response.
 
Wishing you continued PF time,
Bob
« Last Edit: Oct 17th, 2005, 5:16pm by Chillrmn1 » IP Logged
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #38 on: Oct 18th, 2005, 3:59pm »
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It is now 3 days post-dose
 
I really didn't (don't) intend to report my progress every day but today was a little different and I thought I'd write it down before my "old-timers" memory made me forget.
 
Awakened this morning (about 2 hours later than my usual wake-up) with just a slight shadow. Nothing significant compared with other mornings. Then about 11 AM (one of my "usual" times) I got hit pretty hard. Kip 5 or so.
 
I used nasal lidocaine and got almost immediate relief. Which is good, but different. Usually the lidocaine just knocks the edge off and moves the pain further back in my head.  This time the pain was gone!  Hmmm !?!
 
Then about two hours later the dull ache came back.  But just a Kip 2 or so.
 
So I suppose the clusterbusters treatment has made some sort of  difference.  
 
I went back a re-read the Erowid and ClusterBusters info.  As far as I can tell, except for the first hour after the tea,  all I had was side effects.  All the descriptions of level 2 and above just don't fit my experience. Different strokes for different folks, huh?
 
And so it goes.
Squanto
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #39 on: Oct 18th, 2005, 4:14pm »
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on Oct 18th, 2005, 3:59pm, Squanto wrote:
It is now 3 days post-dose
 
I really didn't (don't) intend to report my progress every day but today was a little different and I thought I'd write it down before my "old-timers" memory made me forget.
 
 

 
Your sharing of your experience may help others whom are not getting relief with the treatment they're presently on. Keep sharing please. That's how I decided to try this treatment and it ended up being the most responsive and effective for my CH.  
 
And it appears you are continuing to benefit......glad for you.
 
PFDANs to ya!
Bob
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #40 on: Oct 18th, 2005, 4:27pm »
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Yes Squanto, as Bob said it "Keep sharing please. That's how I decided to try this treatment and it ended up being the most responsive and effective for my CH. " .
 
 At the risk of repeating myself... USE 02 as often as possible to keep them where they're at...
Again, good luck and thanks for the update.
Rex
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #41 on: Oct 18th, 2005, 6:14pm »
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on Oct 18th, 2005, 4:27pm, rextangle wrote:
At the risk of repeating myself... USE 02 as often as possible to keep them where they're at...
Again, good luck and thanks for the update.

 
Ditto what the others have said...iffin' the o2 did not work in the past.....you may be very surprised now. An effective abort. for many folks. I am not sure if it is even possible, but the lidocaine may have given you a rebound ha today?  Better to play it safe with the O2.
 
Time for the "wait and see what happens" mode....with a little luck, the post activity will fade away....along with the memory of CH.  
 
Don't give away the farm/accessories just yet!!...you may need/want it later. Now you know where you do not want to go again, dose size wise. The tea seems to add some "umphhhh" to the equation for sure. Prolly where the term kicka$$ came from.  
 
Also, you may need the 2-3 Tanq. & Tonic size doses to help with current cycle too... you do know you are "comfortable" with that size and it seemed to help you....hope you do not tho!!!
 
Once you get out of cycle, smaller more manageable dosings (=2-3 T&T's-like you did before) buzz levels....called maintenance doses, taken periodically (prior to anticipated cycles, season changes-if this affects you) over the course of a year, may keep the beast locked up somewhere else instead of in your head.  
 
Thanks for the updates!
All the best
SteCo  
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #42 on: Oct 19th, 2005, 8:26am »
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Your post takes me back a few years - and the good news is you're on exactly the right lines, since it's all worked out for me (so far).
 
If  heat destroys the active ingredients - it's at temperatures over 100c. Have always and will always boil the psilocybin first. Get a stock by straining out the boiled mushrooms (5-10 minutes boiling should be enough).
 
If you've ever seen wild mushrooms dry out and the little maggots that live in them crawl out and die you'll know why it's best to strain and throw away residue.  
 
Volume of liquid is down to how much you want to drink and assume all weights given via clusterbusters are for dried 'shrooms.   More than half a mug is a lot to drink.  
 
It's a matter of taste but the stock is pretty poor tasting - and much more attractive with some acidity - lime or lemon juice - added.  (you could even make a meal of it - lemon grass, corriander etc).
 
An added bonus is that extra vitamin C helps keep the 'trip' in check.
 
Very best of luck to you
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #43 on: Oct 21st, 2005, 7:09am »
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Well here I am on the 7th day after dosing (2nd time)
 
Shadows are there most of the day every day- i.e. just a dull pain in and behind my left eye. Occasionally, eye congestion and forehead sweats. Doesn't interfere with life style (if you can attribute any style to my life) but when things get quiet (like driving the car or trying to read) the ache is noticable.
 
Last evening about 7:30 while eating out with my wife, the pain swelled up to about a KIP 4.  When we came home (about 8:30) I decided to try a SPUT. Broke off a small chunk of dried cap - wasn't very big, I cant' think of a common item to compare it to. After hydration in my mouth it was about the size of half of green pea. (aint' THAT scientific!)
 
As Nani suggested I left it under my tongue and sorta "moved it around"  for about 30 minutes.  Taste wasn't bad, texture leaves somethng to be desired but not awful. Finally spit it out.
 
Effect(s)  ?
Nothing, nada, zip, no change in the pain. No side effects.
 
So maybe what I did was a TSaPIT?  Too Small a Piece Under the Tougue.
 
Over the next 2 hours the pain gradually receded to a level 2 or so.
(in spite of the jokes about it on another  thread) maybe a sub-division of the lower KIP scale levels would help.  Especially, when we get over-focused  on these things.) Went to bed and the last thing I recall before dropping off, "the ache's still there."
 
Anyway, woke up  this am (later than usual) and felt pain free for about an hour.  Then the ache in my eye returned. And now 2 hours later it persists.  Took a couple of Naprosyns an hour ago - no benefit yet.
 
I know this a lot of detail - I'm thinking this is the only way to keep a log of what has happened with my "alternate therapy."
 
Squanto
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #44 on: Oct 21st, 2005, 8:51pm »
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Squanto, thanks for the update!
 
I hate to repeat myself, but I've suggested a few times that you use 02 as soon as you feel a twinge of a HA.
 
From my understanding the mushroom therapy will help tame the pain and how often the hits occur, but in order for this to work you need to be quick with the 02, hoping to keep things down as much as possible. 02 kills shadows great and abort nasty attacks if you get to it as quickly as possible.
 
If you do decide to redose, remember to use a small amount! Hope you kept that scale of yours!
 
Keep us posted and thank you again!
Be well,  
 
Rex
 
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #45 on: Oct 22nd, 2005, 6:48pm »
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BUMP...
 
Squanto, read my previous post.
Thanks,
Rex
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #46 on: Oct 24th, 2005, 7:13pm »
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I'm just about 10 days post 2nd dose. I think things are better over-all compared to the weeks before my 1st dose.
 
It may be wishful thinking. I had so hoped that the clusterbuster treatment was going to stop the headached cold. Hasn't happened tho'. I suppose my expectations were to great.  But,  I'm really trying hard NOT to focus my life and daily activity on the headaches. I've been off Imitrex injections for over a month. 3 times since my last full dose of "alternate therapy" I've been hit hard enough to want an Trex injection.  All three times I've done SPUTs. I suspect I'm not doing the SPUT thing right. I'll start another topic and ask some questions about SPUT.
 
For example: I woke this morning at 4 AM with a KIP 4-5. I cut a chunk a little bigger than the last one and put it under my tongue. Within 15-20 minutes the pain was gone. I sucked and moved the chunk around for another 30 minutes and then spit it out. (I took a picture of the re-hydrated piece. If/when I figure out how to post an image in these messages, I'll let everyone see how big was. By then tho' we'll have moved on to other things.) Anyway, within a hour of spitting out the chunk the pain was back. Only a KIP 2-3 though.  A dull ache persisted all day - most noticable when I wasn't occupied.  
 
An aside to Rex:  I'm having a little trouble getting O2 set up.  I have a  540 regulator (Thanks Mr Happy) and a week ago I ordered a clustermasx mask but it hasn't been delivered yet.  There's only one supplier of welding oxygen in my town.  I made the mistake of telling the retailer what I was going to do with it. I guess I babbled the truth. He refused to sell/rent me a tank. Citing liability concerns.  I've asked my GP to send a scrip to the local medical gas folks.This week I'm going to see a welding supplier in a town 25 miles away and lie about what I'm going to do with the O2. Nothing is as easy as it oughta be. When I get all the durn pieces together I'll report the benefits of trying O2 again post-dose, if any.
 
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #47 on: Oct 24th, 2005, 7:26pm »
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Hey Squanto,
 
Thanks for the report. Well, I'm glad that your CH have weakened since your last dose! Great news.
 
And now I understand why you're not talking 02 much...
Yep, don't tell the welding supplier that you're gonna suck on that tank, they won't sell it to you, even though it's still 100% pure oxygen... just tell them you're picking it up for a buddy who's doing welding if they ask you anything.
 
I'm not exactly sure why you would want to post a pic of the "spitted and re-hydrated piece of mushroom"
I'm pretty sure most of us can figure it out without the visuals... Shocked... unless a member requests it!!! Grin
 
Again, good to hear from you and looking forward to your next pictureless post.
 
Cheers,
Rex
 
« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2005, 7:27pm by rextangle » IP Logged
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #48 on: Oct 24th, 2005, 7:38pm »
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Rex wrote:
 I'm not exactly sure why you would want to post a pic of the "spitted and re-hydrated piece of mushroom"  
 
Well, I'm not trying to gross everybody out. The size of the piece(s) has been problematic for me. What's a "small piece?" How to describe the size of the piece that did or didn't work. I'm just not facile enough with words to come up with a description that conveys the actual size of the piece.  
 
So, I'll stop fiddling with posting the image. I've got other things to do anyway. Smiley
 
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Re: My "alternate therapy"  is read
« Reply #49 on: Oct 24th, 2005, 7:42pm »
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Ok, let's just compare it to a dime. Is the piece bigger or smaller? If I was you, I would stick with something smaller than a dime.
Also ingesting it may give you a bit of time release...
 
See, there's still no need for a pic! Wink
 
Rex
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