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Jonny

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #75 - Jun 18^th, 2008 at 8:09pm

Agostino Leyre wrote on Jun 18^th, 2008 at 9:09am:

And we will never be able to "fix" our government until the voters on both sides pull their heads out of the sand and realize that they are being played by the "two" major parties. They sit back, make sound bites about fixing things, and just make them worse, the only thing they are able to do effectively is to line the coiffers of their supporters with our tax dollars. They're really good at that. They will NEVER fix anything, if they started fixing things, then what could they campaign on? Hmmmmmm.... Think about it, really think about it. If you're able to.

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Everyone should stop the video (if you have to) and read every written word that is shown on a black screen!

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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #76 - Jun 18^th, 2008 at 9:48pm Quote: And he just gave his ringing endorsement to B. Hussein Obama I wondered how long it would take. I agree with Gator & Co. about the bottom feeders in our Congress. Charlie
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Brew Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #77 - Jun 18^th, 2008 at 9:55pm Charlie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2008 at 9:48pm: I wondered how long it would take. How long what would take? For someone to call him by his given name?
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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #78 - Jun 18^th, 2008 at 10:43pm Quote: How long what would take? For someone to call him by his given name? Two in a row. The GOP must is scraping the bottom. I had no idea they were in this much trouble. Not surprising tactic of course. Charlie
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Brew Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #79 - Jun 18^th, 2008 at 10:48pm Charlie wrote on Jun 18^th, 2008 at 10:43pm: Quote: How long what would take? For someone to call him by his given name? Two in a row. The GOP must is scraping the bottom. I had no idea they were in this much trouble. Not surprising tactic of course. Charlie
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Kevin_M

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #80 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:44am

I see the Tennessee Center for Policy Research links up with all the biggest and best oil lobby think tanks in the D.C. area. And president Drew Johnson learned from the best, serving as an "Institute for Humane Studies Koch Fellow." The EPA has a little story about the Koch Industries, of brothers Charles G. Koch and David H. Koch, who love to contribute to these think tanks, and in fact funds every national one on the TCPR web site. You really gotta watch out for those hypocrites.

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Paul98

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #81 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 8:15am

Kevin_M wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:44am:

I see the Tennessee Center for Policy Research links up with all the biggest and best oil lobby think tanks in the D.C. area. And president Drew Johnson learned from the best, serving as an "Institute for Humane Studies Koch Fellow." The EPA has a little story about the Koch Industries, of brothers Charles G. Koch and David H. Koch, who love to contribute to these think tanks, and in fact funds every national one on the TCPR web site. You really gotta watch out for those hypocrites.

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And some how Drew Johnsons backround or funding has bearing on Al's pontifications which are in direct conflict with his hypercarbon lifestyle? I fail to see it lessening of Al's hypocracy which was the point of my post. It was not the sainthood of Drews past.

-P.

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Agostino Leyre

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #82 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 8:44am

Quote:

Agostino Leyre wrote on Jun 18^th, 2008 at 9:09am:

And we will never be able to "fix" our government until the voters on both sides pull their heads out of the sand and realize that they are being played by the "two" major parties. They sit back, make sound bites about fixing things, and just make them worse, the only thing they are able to do effectively is to line the coiffers of their supporters with our tax dollars. They're really good at that. They will NEVER fix anything, if they started fixing things, then what could they campaign on? Hmmmmmm.... Think about it, really think about it. If you're able to.

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Everyone should stop the video (if you have to) and read every written word that is shown on a black screen!

This guy knows what's up. The problem is that people are not mentally capable of seeing how they're being duped. It's quite sad really. I swallowed the party line for the Republicans for many years, finally started to realize they were all the same when Bush Sr. was in office and Clinton and GW have just confirmed it for me, so it's taken me about sixteen years to see the light, but I didn't have the luxury of some one pointing the way for me. I've come to realize that america likes to have it's political opinions spoon fed to them by their media of choice. We love to be told what to think, because that is sooooooo much easier than thinking for ourselves. We're headed for something a lot worse than "big brother". When I see the direction we're headed it scares the shit right outta me.

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« Last Edit: Jun 19^th, 2008 at 8:45am by Agostino Leyre »

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monty

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #83 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:24am

Quote:

Everyone should stop the video (if you have to) and read every written word that is shown on a black screen!

LOL. Why didn't we have the Republicans to warn of the 'cult of personality' when Reagan was around? Why don't we see them objectively reviewing the record of Maggie Thatcher, instead of swooning when her name gets mentioned?

Now Democrats are excited about their candidate, and McCain is bland and uninspiring (except when he yells at kids to get the hell off his lawn). So it must be the end of the world? Nah. It's politics as usual - been that way through out the history of our nation.

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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Agostino Leyre CH.com Sponsor Offline "Hit like a phillips head into my brain." Posts: 3803 Madison WI USA Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #84 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:37am monty wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:24am: It's politics as usual - been that way through out the history of our nation. So that makes it ok, since that's always how it's been? Just sit back and let the media and the one percent tell us who we can vote for?
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monty CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 1056 The Swamp, Florida	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #85 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:49am The influence of the media is over-rated. The media favored Hillary - she was ahead in the polls and considered the favorite, probably got more coverage. The people were not convinced, and voted otherwise.
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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #86 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:57am Dubya approval rating = 29.8% Congress approval rating = 17.5%
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monty CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 1056 The Swamp, Florida	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #87 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 10:00am But the Congress is an abstraction - a committee with so many faces that is faceless. People hate Congress, but they love their Congressman.
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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #88 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 10:02am I hate my Congresswoman - Lois Capps. She acts soooo sweet it turns my stomach!
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Kevin_M

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #89 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 10:33am

(I'm having trouble quoting a source of a post so far when there is a quote within the post, the wrong name appears.)

Quote:

I fail to see it lessening of Al's hypocracy which was the point of my post.

In all, it is a lot of energy use. I simply widened the field of hypocrisy to include the source of the article.

The opinionated use of data comes into question, so now articles simply have two opinions only making it a nice distraction by this fossil fuel influence, especially when they've been fined $30 million by the EPA and then pointing a finger at Al Gore.

The truthfulness of stating his energy use increased 10% with the modifications installed is in question. I find the article posted to be stating the fact of "the year since" to be deceptive, it has not been a year since the utilization of his modifications.

Quote:

The Associated Press reported on December 13, 2007 that Gore "has completed a host of improvements to make the home more energy efficient, and a building-industry group has praised the house as one of the nation's most environmentally friendly [...] 'Short of tearing it down and starting anew, I don't know how it could have been rated any higher,' said Kim Shinn of the non-profit U.S. Green Building Council, which gave the house its second-highest rating for sustainable design."

Gore was criticized again in June 2008 after the TCPR audited his public utility bills from the Nashville Electric Service and found that the Gores consumed 10% more energy in the year since their home received its eco-friendly modifications. According to the group, while the average American home consumes 11,040kWh per year, the Gore residence consumed an average of 17,768kWh per month from June 2007 to June 2008, a monthly increase of 1,638kWh from the previous year.[106] Gore's spokeswoman Kalee Kreider disputed the TCPR's findings and maintained that the Gores' "utility bills have gone down 40 percent since the green retrofit." Kreider also argued that "the three-year renovation on the home wasn't complete until November, so it's a bit early to attempt a before-and-after comparison.

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Just as when big fossil fuel tried to ban his film in schools.

Quote:

Mining Magnate Funds Campaign to Black Out Gore FIlm in UK Schools
Revealed: the man behind court attack on Gore film

Fuel and mining magnate backed UK challenge to An Inconvenient Truth

The Observer (UK), Oct. 14, 2007

The school governor who challenged the screening of Al Gore's climate change documentary in secondary schools was funded by a Scottish quarrying magnate who established a controversial lobbying group to attack environmentalists' claims about global warming.

Records filed at the Electoral Commission show the New Party has received nearly all of its money - almost £1m between 2004 and 2006 - from Cloburn Quarry Limited, based in Lanarkshire.

Bought opinions.

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Agostino Leyre

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #90 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 11:59am

monty wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:49am:

The influence of the media is over-rated. The media favored Hillary - she was ahead in the polls and considered the favorite, probably got more coverage. The people were not convinced, and voted otherwise.

Over-rated, really? So how many people that voted for Obama have sat down and discussed policy with him? ZERO! The only exposure they've had to him is through the media.

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BMoneeTheMoneeMan

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #91 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 1:23pm

Agostino Leyre wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 11:59am:

monty wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:49am:

The influence of the media is over-rated. The media favored Hillary - she was ahead in the polls and considered the favorite, probably got more coverage. The people were not convinced, and voted otherwise.

I also do not believe the influence of the media is over-rated. People are spoon fed their information.
Look how many people think that sharing the same name as another person means anything at all.

Look how Obama is attacked for wanting to speak with Aquavelvejad, yet Bush Jr. just met with Saudi terrorists and begged them to pump more oil. If Obama can't meet with terrorists, why can Bush Jr?

Look how some people are called anti-American when they say they would rather fight terrorism than fight for Iraqi freedom.

Look how many people poo-poo welfare and poo-poo the lower tax rate for the top 2%, and then love the idea of getting a check from the government for a 'stimulus'. People over 75k a year got much less, if anything.

The US media owns 90%+ of the brains in America. Politicians get richer and civilians get stupider.

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Agostino Leyre CH.com Sponsor Offline "Hit like a phillips head into my brain." Posts: 3803 Madison WI USA Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #92 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 1:30pm BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 1:23pm: [quote author=3C2E3E28282F5B0 link=1212175157/75#90 date=1213891191] The US media owns 90%+ of the brains in America. Politicians get richer and civilians get stupider. Indeed.
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Brew Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #93 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 1:46pm People on the left sure are sensitive about that name thing. It's really quite stunning.
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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #94 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 1:47pm Quote: Look how many people poo-poo welfare and poo-poo the lower tax rate for the top 2% Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Think you must have been influenced by the media.
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #95 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:01pm

I guess I didnt state my point well, Bob. My point was that Bush Jr and the right wing media say that lower taxes on the rich mean more investment from them, thus resulting in more overall jobs or whatnot.

This economic stimulus welfare package was for people making 75k or less. From 75k to 150k was a very small amount of welfare, over 150k was no welfare.

So, if lower taxes on the rich means more jobs and all that shit, howcome the welfare package excluded them?

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Kevin_M

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #96 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:03pm

A legislation proposal here is a kick in the butt for those who voluntarily take measures for conservation.

Deposits on bottled water?

Group pushes to spread law to other nonrefundable containers littering state

BY TINA LAM - FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER - June 18, 2008

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All quotes from this article.

Quote:

The Michigan United Conservation Clubs threw its considerable political weight Tuesday behind a plan to extend Michigan's first-in-the-nation bottle deposit law to containers for water, juice and tea bottles.

MI was apparently an initiator of the bottle deposit law and have had the ten cent return. I find it a hassle so drink bottled water.

Quote:

The containers, especially pervasive plastic water bottles, have become a national hot-button issue as people have switched from sodas and coffee to bottled water. The bottles are controversial because they often end up in roadside litter and require petroleum for their production and delivery.

I remember the first Earth Day in high school and resolved to voluntarily stop littering at the time, and haven't since. Voluntary efforts weren't enough, a ten cent bottle law was enacted in '76.

Quote:

Michiganders return 97% of their beer and soda cans and bottles, which are subject to a 10-cent deposit, but they throw away 80% of other beverage bottles, which have no deposit.

Since 1990, when our city started a recycling program, I've always recycled glass, metal, paper, and plastic.

Quote:

Only 10 other states have bottle deposits; no states surrounding Michigan have them.

Returning bottles from other states for a dime seems a problem, I see added costs coming.

Quote:

MUCC's own polling shows 75% of Michigan voters support the change, he said.

I buy bottled water cases when it's on sale. Returning them all would really suck. Who in the heck would want to lug them all back to the store as opposed to gathering in a receptacle and putting them in a recycling bin out by the curb??????

Quote:

Each machine that scans returnables costs $20,000

Inserting each plastic bottle separately into a machine sucks, too.

Quote:

Although there currently is a backlash against bottled water, with cities such as Ann Arbor banning it at meetings and in offices,...

If the legislative plan doesn't fly, a future statewide ballot initiative is possible, said James Clift, policy director of the Michigan Environmental Council.

"I think it would pass easily," he said.

I cannot believe bottled water is banned from the workplace!

Those who DO recycle are being penalized. Pisses me off.

This also hints to me that perhaps voluntary efforts of energy conservation will not be sufficient and the possibility of legislation will result in further inconveniences to all and the many who are making the effort.

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BMoneeTheMoneeMan

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #97 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:08pm

Quote:

People on the left sure are sensitive about that name thing. It's really quite stunning.

Dude, do you know how many serial killers and baby rapists are named Bill?
To try to draw a connection between you and other people named Bill is not just elementary, it's preschool.

If you think there is a connection between people who share a name, howcome you never try to draw a connection between George H. Walker Bush, Jr and John Walker Lindh? What about George Galloway, the child rapist? Is there a connection between the 2 since their names are both George?

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monty

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #98 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:11pm

Agostino Leyre wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 11:59am:

monty wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:49am:

The influence of the media is over-rated. The media favored Hillary - she was ahead in the polls and considered the favorite, probably got more coverage. The people were not convinced, and voted otherwise.

Over-rated, really? So how many people that voted for Obama have sat down and discussed policy with him? ZERO! The only exposure they've had to him is through the media.

Well, I have met exactly one presidential candidate, and I was too young to sit him down and wonk policy with him even if he hadn't had a rather full schedule. On the other hand, I do think that a person that reads newspapers, magazines, or a wide variety of sources on the internet CAN figure out where the candidates stand on tax policy, Iraq, healthcare, and any other issue that is of interest. With the internet, the traditional media is getting less powerful, not more.

A while back, there was a posting here about a site that had people answer a series of questions, and it then showed which candidates best represent their views, and which candidates are least like them. Millions of people have used sites like that. An even larger group does their homework in other ways. Give America some credit.

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« Last Edit: Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:14pm by monty »

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Gator

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #99 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:14pm

The more you make, the higher the percentage of your income goes to taxes. That's called a progressive tax system and is one of the planks of the socialist platform.

It's not enough to be level across the board. At, say, 10% across the board, the "rich" would still pay many times more than the "poor" but it would be fair.

Example: I make $100 a week, I would pay $10 a week in taxes. You make $1000 a week, you pay $100 a week in taxes. That's fair enough, because we both pay the same percentage of our income. But that isn't the way it is.

For every $100 in income, the lowest rate pays $3.21 in taxes. The highest rate pays $21.40 in taxes on that same $100. How is that fair?

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