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JuniorBrew CH.com Junior Offline Who are you people?! Posts: 87 Near Milwaukee, WI, USA Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #25 - Jun 11^th, 2008 at 8:48pm This whole oil crisis is making me think about just not getting my driver's license altogether... Seriously, we need to be able to wean ourselves of the 'loving' bosom that is the OPEC countries, and we need to get on our own feet as a nation again.
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Jonny Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #26 - Jun 11^th, 2008 at 9:09pm JuniorBrew wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 8:48pm: Seriously, we need to be able to wean ourselves of the 'loving' bosom that is the OPEC countries, and we need to get on our own feet as a nation again. How do suggest we do that?
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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #27 - Jun 11^th, 2008 at 9:57pm Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Feel free anybody.... Seriously, my hope is to find more oil but at the same time, make it less and less important. It can be done. We're supposed to be good at this kind of thing. Charlie
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Gator

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #28 - Jun 11^th, 2008 at 11:32pm

Charlie wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 9:57pm:

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Feel free anybody....

Seriously, my hope is to find more oil but at the same time, make it less and less important. It can be done. We're supposed to be good at this kind of thing.

Charlie

When it comes down to there being no other choice, either someone will create the technology or more likely - the technology that has existed for years but has been suppressed by the oil companies will be released. Hopefully they don't wait until it is too late.

It's like the old quote by Winston Churchill you used to use said:

Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities.

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BMoneeTheMoneeMan

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #29 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 1:00am

I can certainly see the reason why the oil industry doesn't want to drill their way to lower revenue......but I don't see why they don't purchase or research other fuel. Whether its electrolosis or hydrogen or whatever, there's money to be made if you have the investment.

We all know they have the means to fund it.

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monty

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #30 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:11am

Quote:

JuniorBrew wrote on Jun 11^th, 2008 at 8:48pm:

Seriously, we need to be able to wean ourselves of the 'loving' bosom that is the OPEC countries, and we need to get on our own feet as a nation again.

How do suggest we do that?

It is going to take the kind of focus and commitment that we had when we decided to put a man on the moon. Apollo was the largest non-military program in the history of the country.

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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Kevin_M

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #31 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 1:43pm

monty wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:11am:

It is going to take the kind of focus and commitment that we had when we decided to put a man on the moon. Apollo was the largest non-military program in the history of the country.

Sputnik inadvertantly established the principle that satellite "overflight was not a violation of air space. A rude awakening in the age of nuclear weapons.

It took ten years.

Launching required ballistic missiles, the interservice agencies were heavily involved, JPL essentially an army missile lab operated by Caltech, the Navy had a research lab for their Vanguard, USAF built IRBMs based on the Atlas program. Once in awhile a collaboration would be attempted -- the USAF/Army's Thor/Jupiter.
There was pre-NASA's ARPA (Advanced Research Project Agency - a holding company for military space programs), NACA (Nat'l Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) and ABMA (Army Ballistic Missile Agency)

NASA started operation 01 Aug 58, taking ABMA, JPL, NACA's three research labs, and was promised the Navy's Vanguard group, later named Goddard Space Center.

Yes though, Ike stepped in to stop interservice rivalry, he and Johnson shared a primary motivation that the U.S. needed separate civilian and scientific space programs. The army continued to run national security space projects and at the time most thought they'd dominate in the end. Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo were all aimed at the moon, in steps.

most info from a von Braun bio.

Today it seems a defined posing threat is needed, climate change is not immediate enough perhaps or yet concerning enough, pricing a slow bleed. Cold war factors influenced a space jump and the Manhatten Project was instilled as a race to beat the Germans, who were also thought to be ahead of us.

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LeLimey Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #32 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 1:48pm The only problem with putting a man on the moon was you didn't pick the right one...
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Paul98

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What, it's all in my head?

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #33 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 3:24pm

18 billion barrels in Anwr; ~400 billion barrels in the Bakken Formation; ~1500 billion recoverable barrels of oil shale; estimated 1,000 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. And this doesn’t count the huge reserve of Methane locked up in Methane Hydrate ~400,000 Trillion cubic feet of Methane. (Methane Hydrate is a pure white crystalline lattice of water ice that has methane molecules trapped in it. Each methane molecule has six water molecules holding it in place. And, a single unit of methane hydrate, when heated and depressurized, releases 160 times its volume in natural gas. By comparison the total amount of oil under Saudi Arabia is about 200 billion barrels. And finally if you consider our coal reserves and the fact that at current prices it is highly economical to produce liquid fuels from coal, we probably have enough fossil reserves to supply US needs for at least a thousand years – much more if all our electrical needs are produced by nuclear plants.

Blame the Bunnymen.

-P.

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Gator

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #34 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 4:35pm

Paul98 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 3:24pm:

Blame the Bunnymen.

-P.

That would be the environmentalists for those of you in Rio Linda. Smiley

You also have to add the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) social elite crowd on the coasts who want more oil, more gas and more power, but will not allow anything to be built in their areas. They are more than willing to set up oil rigs in the Gulf and nuclear waste facilities in Nevada and wind turbine farms in the Midwest, but not on their coast lines or hillsides, etc.

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Agostino Leyre CH.com Sponsor Offline "Hit like a phillips head into my brain." Posts: 3803 Madison WI USA Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #35 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 4:54pm I signed it, hope I don't get a bunch of damned spam. Edit to add, wishful thinking on my part......
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monty

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #36 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 5:02pm

Paul98 wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 3:24pm:

Blame the Bunnymen.

Or the economists. America was pumping lots of oil in America, but the cheap easy-to-get-to stuff was either used up or being pumped as fast as possible. Lots of marginal producers in the US then went bankrupt, even though oil was still under the ground. It just cost too much to bring it to the surface.

US production expanded in the 70s and early 80s with high prices, then shrunk when prices dropped. Tar sands need high prices to be feasible - oil shale, even more so. Methane hydrate has potential, but the technology is not there - there is no commercial utilization of that at all yet.

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« Last Edit: Jun 12^th, 2008 at 5:05pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Charlie

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #37 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:11pm

I have to agree with Monty. Cool

Yesterday, a lot of New York State bigwigs were here in my little town giving us the okay to build a carbon-capturing coal-fired power plant to replace the one we have which is supposed to be one of the dirtiest in the country....you could fool me. I didn't know it was so and the thing is that we don't need our own plant because we get almost all our power from Niagara Falls. Still, it looks like we will spend a shitload of cash to replace the plant we don't use with this new idea. I think they have one of these under construction or in use in Norway. Everybody here knows that our rates will go through the roof. For now, Jamestown has incredibly cheap power. I paid $19 last month. I wonder how long this thing will take? It might be interesting though.

Charlie

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Jonny Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #38 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:58pm Charlie wrote on Jun 12^th, 2008 at 9:11pm: I have to agree with Monty. Jamestown has incredibly cheap power. I paid $19 last month. $19 for electric?....If so, Christ, im paying way over a hundred!
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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #39 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 10:16pm 19 bucks is it Jonny. Bear in mind that I live alone and use an oil fired computer. Next month will be more than $25 with my central air conditioner. Normally, I pay a little more than $20. I can't complain. Charlie
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan CH.com Alumnus Offline In remembrance of KingCazman. RIP Posts: 2674 Portland, OR	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #40 - Jun 12^th, 2008 at 10:45pm How in the hell can Jamestown have such cheap power? Back when i wasnt even living here, the electric was like $75. Look at your bill and see how many KW you used. I am curious.
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Charlie

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #41 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 3:27pm

I checked and 222 kwh is the consumption for May. We are spoiled in this town and we are really steamed that it's likely to go up more than usual in a few years. If you add in sewer, water and the like, the total is about $60. Gas runs about $143 a month on balanced billing.

The thing is that if you go just a few miles outside the city, the rates for Niagara are similar to yours.

Charlie

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BMoneeTheMoneeMan CH.com Alumnus Offline In remembrance of KingCazman. RIP Posts: 2674 Portland, OR	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #42 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 6:35pm What are you, Amish or something? You only used 222kwh? I use about 1400 - 1800 kwh a month, with a gas furnace and gas water heater. I also replaced most of the bulbs with CFLs, which made a noticable difference. I sometimes use 222kwh in a weekend.
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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #43 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 8:22pm That's what it says: comsumption 222 kwh. Shit. I fall asleep with the TV on all the time. It must be some kind of accounting thing. It's the only thing I can think of. It does seem odd though. Charlie
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Jonny Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #44 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 8:37pm Psssst....Charlie, never complain about your bill to the electric company!.....LOL
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tuck

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #45 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 8:50pm

hi folks, i am new to this site, but i have worked for one of the worlds largest oil companies for a long time. i am no CEO or white collar guy, just a grunt in the trenches, but i do still have half a brain and can read. ( and NO, i dont get free gas, or even a discount!). and one thing ALL of us in the refinery KNOW is this,,, THERE IS PLENTY OF OIL. there is NO shortage,!!! i repeat, there is NO shortage. if you want to blame the prices on someone, its easy to blame the big three, after all look at their profits, but ,, this is america, a company in this country has ONE MAIN OBJECTIVE,,,,, to make MONEY!!!!! PERIOD. one thing i do know is this,, everytime a little grass-hut in the middle of south america with one little pump,( the size of your basement sump-pump) gets taken over by six guys with masks and AK47's, speculators on wall street " freak out" and drive the price of a barrel up $2.00. i dont have the answers folks, hell, i dont have any answers, just trying to sate a few facts. Tuck

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cancer shmancer,, i get cluster headaches!

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Jonny Ex Member	Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less... Reply #46 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 9:06pm Someone is getting rich, and it aint us! Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
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Kevin_M

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #47 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 9:34pm

Charlie wrote on Jun 13^th, 2008 at 8:22pm:

comsumption 222 kwh.

A little evening street light through the windows

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a favorite AM radio station, a box of Crackerjacks,

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and a cold one in the icebox. Wink

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« Last Edit: Jun 13^th, 2008 at 9:36pm by Kevin_M »

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Jonny

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #48 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 10:49pm

Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:

A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $4.10 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5 .5 %(a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate
(stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% + of American homes are in foreclosure &nb sp;

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

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artonio7

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Re: Drill here, drill now, pay less...
Reply #49 - Jun 13^th, 2008 at 11:19pm

Quote:

Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:

A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $4.10 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5 .5 %(a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate
(stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% + of American homes are in foreclosure &nb sp;

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Here I thought all of that had to do with my new deodorant... it was about the same time I switched brands.

with warm regards,
Tony

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