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Lithium question (Read 4431 times)
kathy
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Lithium question
Jun 13th, 2008 at 12:22pm
 
My husband is the clusterhead.  He has been episodic for 20 years and chronic for 1.5-2 years.  O2 works great, but his headaches hit every 1.25 hours all night.  The oxygen knocks them down, but then he only gets an hour of sleep before the next one hits.  He was finally exhausted enough to see a neurologist, who tried verapamil then lyrica.  Neither helped.  Lyrica made the hits worse.  This week he started lithium and has had two pain-free nights in a row!  Two complete nights sleeping through the night with no O2 at all.  This ispractically unheard of for him.  I am trying not to get my hopes up, but has anyone heard of lithium working this well this fast?
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #1 - Jun 13th, 2008 at 1:29pm
 
Just accept it!

Lithium has been a recognized med for chronic for several years. He needs only to be faithful on the regular blood checks which his doc should expect and be aware of potential side effects.
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Brew
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #2 - Jun 13th, 2008 at 1:38pm
 
Usually one hears of lithium taking 10-14 days to reach theraputic levels in the body. Could be any number of things, but I wouldn't mess with it. If he does go back to getting hit, he might want to talk to his doc about a short taper of prednisone while the lithium builds up in his system.
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kathy
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #3 - Jun 13th, 2008 at 3:23pm
 
Thanks for the response.  I have seen the phrase "prednisone taper" before and am just guessing that it refers to gradually increasing the dose of the prednisone and then promptly weaning off of it to avoid any side effects.  Am I right?
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Charlotte
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #4 - Jun 13th, 2008 at 3:56pm
 
My prednisone tapers have been in decreasing amounts, ie 3 days at 60 mg, 3 days at 50 mg, 3 days at 40 mg, 3 days at 20 mg, 3 days at 10 mg.

Currently my neuro has me on a maintenance dose of 10 mg every other days, along with my other meds.

Charlotte
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gizmo
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #5 - Jun 13th, 2008 at 4:00pm
 
Promptly wearing off prednisone (like any other corticosteroid) is dangerous and can even kill you.
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Brew
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #6 - Jun 13th, 2008 at 5:07pm
 
You start out big, sustain that level for a couple of days, then taper down slowly. Your doc will know how to do it for your body weight.
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Scott Deboodt
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #7 - Jun 13th, 2008 at 7:30pm
 
I've been chronic for 5 years now. Verapamil and O2 were my best friends. I was having real bangers every 30 minutes, all night long. I too finally saw a Neurologist in April. I started on just 600 mg of Lithium, I had my first headache free night 3 days after starting the Lithium. After constant dialogue with the Doc, and several blood tests, I have finally decreased my dosage of Verapamil from 960 mg to 480 mg. My current dosage of Lithium is at 1200 mg. My wife feels it's close to a miracle, I haven't had a headache since 18 April. I really feel it's the Lithium. This is the first time in 6 years that I have been headache free in May and June.
You have to keep searching for something that works, and have faith when something does.
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Guiseppi
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #8 - Jun 15th, 2008 at 4:01am
 
Lithium has been my silver bullet for many years. For some reason there are some it just doesn't work for. Like you, at 1200 mg a day,  I'm damned near bullet proof against the beast. Hope it works for you as long as it has for me.

Guiseppi
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kathy
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #9 - Jun 20th, 2008 at 12:25pm
 
Thanks for the responses.  (I don't get a chance to log on most days, only Fridays usually.)  Here is an update for those who are looking into lithium therapy.  My husband has been taking lithium for 9 days.  He is taking 300 mg twice a day.  In that 9 days he has had FIVE completely pain free nights, 1 bad night (3-4 headaches spaced the usual 75 minutes apart) and 3 one-hit nights.  That is a major improvement over the last couple of years where he might have 1 or 2 pain-free nights a month and at least 2 headaches all the other nights.  And he says the headaches he has been getting recently are shorter and milder than before.

I believe the technical term for this phenomenon is WOOO HOOO Cheesy Cheesy

He has a blood test scheduled for Monday, then he and the doc will discuss upping the dosage or staying where he is.  He is rather leery of trading the headaches/fatigue for drug side effects, so I suspect he will opt for keeping the dose as low as possible.

I see where some have gotten complete relief at 1200mg.  Have side effects been a problem?  How long can one maintain such a high dose, generally?
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Brew
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #10 - Jun 20th, 2008 at 12:30pm
 
"High dosage" is a relative term. People who use lithium for bipolar disorders generally take twice as much or more than we Ch'ers do.

I suffer no ill side effects at 600mg per day. Even at 900mg per day, I only feel a little tired, nothing that an extra cup of coffee or two wont' cure.

For awhile I was at 1200mg per day, and even at that level, I had no hand tremor, which is one of the first indications of lithium toxicity.
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kathy
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #11 - Jun 20th, 2008 at 2:20pm
 
Thanks!  The feedback here is really helpful.  As "support staff" in this situation,  I am always weighing the risk of over-optimism with destructive negativity.  

I have read that clusterheads usually get relief with much lower lithium doses than manic/depressives do, but I haven't seen any indication of what is considered "low."
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Brew
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #12 - Jun 20th, 2008 at 3:30pm
 
Go to Google.com, type in "lithium dosage," and start clickin' and readin'. Here's a little tidbit I found on using lithium to treat depression:

Dosage

Dosages of 600 to 1200 mg/d (or blood levels of 0.4 to 0.8 mmol) have been used to augment antidepressant response. Thase, 1995:1088 (5)

Serum lithium levels do not appear to be correlated with responsiveness of depressive symptoms to lithium augmentation. de Montigny, 1994:32 (5,6)

One study has shown that patients with serum levels of 0.4 mmol had a comparable response to patients with serum levels of 0.8 mmol. de Montigny, 1994:32 (5,6)

Thus, an inadequate response to lithium addition may not be remedied by increased doses, and may increase the risk of adverse events. de Montigny, 1994:32 (5,6)

Adverse effects

In general, lithium augmentation appears to be safe if low doses are used. de Montigny, 1994:33 (2)

Side effects observed with lithium concentrations of 0.5 mM to 1 mM include hand tremor, weight gain, thirst, and increased urine production.

Concentrations >2 mM are characterized by nausea, fine tremors, diarrhea, ataxia, confusion, slurred speech; >4 mM can cause coma or death. Atack, 1995:343 (2,3)

Blood levels, renal status, and thyroid function should be monitored.
Cognitive effects.
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kathy
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #13 - Jul 11th, 2008 at 11:18am
 
One last update (not that everyone is  waiting breathlessly for my updates!), about the lithium treatment.

My husband has been at 900 mg per day for two weeks now and he has NOT HAD A SINGLE HEADACHE nor even a shadow of one!  Smiley  This after literally years of nightly misery.  He can even have a shot of bourban at night and sleep like a baby all night.  

His only side effect so far is that he is groggier than usual when he wakes up.  The only other down side is that now that he is sleeping again, he's also snoring and I can't sleep! Smiley

I thought I'd post this just in case some chronic out there is reading this board and has become too discouraged to even try lithium.  It really, really might work.  It might even work really, really well.  Give it a try.  (By the way, Dave is a true chronic--definitely not episodic.)
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Guiseppi
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #14 - Jul 11th, 2008 at 12:34pm
 
They say lithium works better for the chronics. I'm an episodic and I get the same effect he does, almost complete relief at 1200 mg a day. I'm so glad to hear it's working so well for him. It's  nice to not be afraid of going to sleep! (Guess you'll be investing in ear plugs???) Grin

Hoping the relief lasts forever!

Guiseppi
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Brew
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #15 - Jul 11th, 2008 at 2:11pm
 
Waking up groggy? Chronic snoring? He might want to look into getting a sleep study done. My CPAP has made all the difference in the world.
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Sophia
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Re: Lithium question
Reply #16 - Jul 18th, 2008 at 2:45pm
 
I have been using the Lithium too this week. My doctor put me on a gradually increasing dose and gave me a nerve block (Gee those hurt.. but its better than the BEAST) And she also gave me imitrex injections but the pharmacy forgot to give me the needles. (Duh) So I have to go back but so far the lithium seems to help. I am just super tired and grumpy. My boyfriend is threatening to lock me in the closet. Yea right. Like he can get that close when I am grumpy Tee Hee. Does anyone else have the I dont want to eats with this? Food tastes funny now. Better than the beast however. I am hoping your husband is feeling much much better and I can sympathize with the snoring. My boyfriend rattles windows. Ear plugs are a must around here. Hoping you have all have a pain free weekend. Sophia
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