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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why (Read 445940 times)
bcsanders
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1775 - Apr 9th, 2014 at 6:39am
 
Thanks Colin,
I started the regimen on Sunday and have an appt with neuro today and am going to ask for the test.  Today will be day 3 on regimen so I will see how I feel.  It's a new neuro I have only seen one other time.  If they seem resistant I will just go to my pcp who I have been seeing for 15 years and I know would be willing to work with me.   Thanks for the advice.  Much appreciated.
Craig
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1776 - Apr 9th, 2014 at 8:52am
 
hi craig,
I was lucky when I first started the regime, I was at my doctors the day after I read about it on here, so I took the test and 3 days later I had the test results, of which I was deficient, so i started, as soon as the vitamins arrived, at the accelerated doses straight away, which meant when i re-tested 5 or 6 weeks later i was in the green zone.
my shadows are fortunately easy to break, i simply scull down a cold red bull and mostly it does the trick.
im currently weaning off verapamil, to be only on the vit d3 regime, so im a tad nervous, but hoping for a good outcome.
so good luck with it, hope you get good results with it.
regards
colin
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1777 - Apr 9th, 2014 at 11:58am
 
Hey Craig,

Welcome to the anti-inflammatory regimen...  Great questions...

For starters, the klingon shadows and K-3 to K-4 burn through attacks will likely go away after a week or so...  You can make them vamose a lot faster by starting the acclerated vitamin D3 loading schedule.   

This loading schedule calls for 20,000 IU/day for two weeks followed by another two weeks at 15,000 IU/day.  In addition, during the first two weeks, take a 50,000 IU vitamin D3 loading dose, once a week for the first two weeks on top of the 20,000 IU daily dose.

If you run the numbers, this comes to a total of 600,000 IU of vitamin D3 over the four-week period or an average of 21,000 IU/day vitamin D3. 

The average 25(OH)D response to this 600,000 IU vitamin D3 intake is an increase of 60 ng/mL on top of the starting 25(OH)D serum concentration. 

Regarding the Centrum for men 50 plus, it should have at least 220 mg calcium and eating an orange will be a good source of citric acid. Hope this helps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1778 - Apr 9th, 2014 at 1:56pm
 
Thanks Batch,  I will try the accelerated.  I am feeling a bit better today - day 3 -but not all there yet.  Definately more noticibly less shadows - they are coming less often.    Went to Neuro this morning.  She could not have been any more welcoming to this regimen.  She gave the script for the Vit D serum test and wanted to keep the documentation that I showed her from WikiD.  She said that nothing in the regimen could hurt me and that the test was a good idea just do you don't overload on D.  IN 27 years I have never been in cycle this early in the year and blame it on the polar vortex. Trying the VitD in hopes the beast does not recycle in the oncoming spring weather change.  I will let you know how I am doing over the next few days and will let you know my serum level. 
Warm regards to all:

Craig
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1779 - Apr 12th, 2014 at 11:08am
 
Hi
My name is Martin, I'm 65 from UK, an episodic clusterhead for 27 years and in my current bout since January. I saw this thread a week ago and so started the D3/Omega3 regimen 6 days ago with great optimism but I'm still having my usual 4-6 attacks daily.  How long should I give this before I can expect to see results?  I'm currently also taking Topiramate since February as an possible preventative but that's not had any effect so far, like everything else I've tried in the past.  O2 doesn't work for me and so all I have are the 2 sumatriptan injections allowed per day and I'm rapidly approaching my wits' end. I would be grateful for your advice.

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1780 - Apr 12th, 2014 at 11:36am
 
Hi Martin,
I'm very surprised to hear the 02 does not work for you, as it is a powerful vasoconstrictor.
Most people who don't have success with it are not using it correctly. I'm not saying you are one of them so please don't be offended, but so many people suffer unnecessarily because they didn't know how to use it or it's been prescribed wrongly. So just in case, may I ask how high was the flow rate and what kind of mask did you use.

The flow must be at least 15 litres per minute or more, and you must have a non rebreather mask. Get either of those wrong and it won't work.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1781 - Apr 12th, 2014 at 11:49am
 
Hi Maz

Thank you for your reply.
The only time I used oxygen was when I was an inpatient at the Headache Group of the Institute of Neurology in London, the premier hospital in the UK for the treatment of cluster headaches, and I was supervised by doctors who are experts in their field. I am confident, therefore, that it was being used correctly!  That was probably 7 years ago so maybe I should ask my doctor if I could try using it again. My attacks rarely last longer than 25 minutes so I am not really sure how beneficial the o2 would be anyway.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1782 - Apr 12th, 2014 at 11:52am
 
Maz, I just realized you're also in UK so you know about Dr Matharu and Queen Square et al  Grin
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1783 - Apr 12th, 2014 at 3:06pm
 
Hey Martin,

Welcome to the anti-inflammatory regimen and thanks for the initial feedback.  Have you seen your PCP or neurologist for the lab test for 25(OH)D? 

Knowing your serum concentration of this vitamin D3 metabolite can be very helpful in determining how long it will take for a favorable response to this regimen... and how much vitamin D3 to take.

Are you taking the rest of the anti-inflammatory regimen?  Magnesium is very important.  It supports the enzymatic processes that metabolize vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D and on to 1,25(OH)2D3, the active hormonal metabolite we think is responsible for the CH preventative effect.

You may need to increase your vitamin D3 intake, but without the results of a 25(OH)D lab test, it's difficult to say how much or for how long...

If you're taking the liquid softgel capsules or liquid form of vitamin D3, pop 15,000 to 20,000 IU of these capsules between your back teeth and hold the contents between your cheek and gums for 15 to 20 minutes without swallowing or drinking any fluids.  If you're using the liquid vitamin D3 drops, put them under your tongue,  Do this as soon as you feel your next CH approaching.

Taking vitamin D3 this way bypasses the GI tract and gets the vitamin D3 directly into the blood stream very rapidly.  You should find taking vitamin D3 this way will help abort the CH.

Regarding oxygen therapy not working...  This happens... but there are usually several reasons why...  If you wait until the CH pain has ramped up to levels 6 to 8, the aborts with oxygen therapy will take much longer than if you started at the first sign of an approaching CH.

If you wait until pain reaches level 9 on the 10-point headache pain scale, an abort with oxygen will be limited and it will take a long time (>20 minutes)... If the pain has reach pain level 10, an abort with oxygen therapy will be nearly impossible and you're just along for the painful ride...

The second problem that prevents aborts with oxygen therapy is the breathing technique.  Most of us start out breathing oxygen like we breath room air...  with slow shallow breaths... 

Breathing this way fails to ventilate the lungs completely.  That's why many of us who have become proficient at aborting our CH with oxygen therapy use oxygen flow rates of 25 to 40 liters/minute...  Simply put, keeping up with these flow rates forces us into hyperventilating at higher lung tidal volumes and that ventilates the lungs more completely.

Start your next oxygen therapy by standing and breathing through your mouth with jaw dropped like saying the word, "Haw."  Standing gives your diaphragm full range of motion and this helps ventilate the lungs more completely.  If you get dizzy... and you will...  lean against a wall...  If you feel too dizzy, sit erect in a chair.

Start this session by hyperventilating with room air.  You do this by exhaling forcibly and when it feels like your lungs are empty...  they're not... do an abdominal crunch like doing situps and hold the squeeze until your exhaled breath makes a wheezing sound for a couple seconds.  This will squeeze out an additional half to full liter of exhaled breath.

Then without delay, inhale rapidly from the diaphragm with head and shoulders back and chest out... As soon as the lungs are full, repeat the forced exhalation technique above.  If you're doing this correctly, you should be completing 10 complete respiration cycles in 30 seconds.

With 10 seconds to go in your first 30 seconds hyperventilating with this breathing technique, turn on your oxygen supply valve with the flow rate selector at the highest setting to let the reservoir bag fill... Cup the face mask against your tummy or knee to keep oxygen from escaping.

At the end of 30 seconds hyperventilating with room air with this breathing technique, take a deep lungful of oxygen and hold it for 30 seconds.

If you've done this procedure properly you start experiencing the symptoms of paresthesia... a very slight tingling or prickling of the face, lips, back of the neck and fingertips shortly after inhaling an holding the lungful of oxygen. 

You'll feel these symptoms start to build as soon as you've filled your lungs with oxygen and started holding it... They will continue to build for about 15 seconds then you'll start feeling them subside...  They'll be almost gone after holding the lung full of oxygen for 30 seconds.

Keep repeating this sequence until the CH pain is completely gone.

The entire procedure is called hyperventilating at forced tidal volume capacities...  The net effect of this procedure is casting off CO2 faster than your body generates it through normal metabolism.

I can hear the wheels turning... What has CO2 got to do with aborting a CH?  The answer is... a lot.  CO2 dissolves in water and blood serum to make carbonic acid.  A high blood CO2 content and low pH triggers vasodilation...  For cluster headache sufferers, vasodilation means pain...

By reducing the amount of CO2 dissolved in the blood stream through hyperventilation, we elevate arterial pH making the blood less acid and more alkaline.

Blood hemoglobin is very sensitive to pH.  At a low arterial pH, (more acid), hemoglobin releases oxygen and uploads CO2.  This is what happens in muscles and tissues in the body all the time. 

When the return venous blood flow reaches the lungs where the pH is higher, (more alkaline), hemoglobin offloads CO2 in the exhaled breath and uploads oxygen with the next inhaled breath. This is the normal oxygen and CO2 transport mechanism that keeps us living.

By intentionally hyperventilating with room air long enough to elevate arterial pH, we're pushing our body into respiratory alkalosis. 

The net effect of breathing 100% oxygen at this point is the blood hemoglobin is now carrying up to 12% more oxygen than normal.  The combination of an elevated arterial pH and super oxygenated blood flow triggers a rapid and pronounced vasoconstriction... When this happens in and around the trigeminal nerve... it aborts the CH pain...  very effectively and very rapidly. 

The important thing to remember about using this breathing procedure during oxygen therapy is it is just an abortive...  and not a preventative.  Your CH will likely return in a couple hours...  unless you're also taking the anti-inflammatory regimen.

You're also wondering if this breathing technique and oxygen therapy procedure is safe...  It's very safe.  The symptoms of respiratory alkalosis will clear in 30 seconds to a minute breathing normally.  This lets the blood's CO2 content build back to normal levels.

I've hyperventilated with oxygen since 2005 to abort my CH and have yet to pass out... even when I wanted to in the worse way... 

All of us will pass out due to a lack of oxygen.  That is called hypoxia...  insufficient oxygen at less than normal levels...

When we use the method of oxygen therapy described above, we induce just the opposite condition... hyperoxia... excess oxygen or higher than normal partial pressure of oxygen. 

Hyperventilation also induces hypocapnea...  lower than normal partial pressure of CO2.  Hyperoxia and hypocapnea trigger the sensations of dizziness... that's why you lean against a wall or sit erect in a chair.

Practice this breathing technique and procedure before your next CH...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1784 - Apr 12th, 2014 at 5:34pm
 
Hi Martin.
No I hadn't heard of him. I just googled his name.

To be honest I have had very little help from the medical profession. I was referred to a neuro in Chichester who  says I can't have cluster headaches because I'm a woman, and diagnosed me with TAC. But the thing is, Cluster headache IS a TAC. so he just doesn't make sense. He went on to prescribe various meds for other conditions and of course they don't work because I do have clusters.

Everything I know about this condition and how to treat it, I have found out from this site.This is where I heard about sumatriptan and oxygen among other things. My GP admits she knows nothing about it but fortunately she is willing to prescribe what I ask for (within reason of course). If I had not found this site I would still be completely untreated after 6 years. It comes to something doesn't it, when you have to tell your doctor what you need. Good old NHS. Sad

If you do decide to try the 02 again, and if it works this time it definately will be beneficial. Get on it fast enough and it will abort in about 5 mins. For you, thats 20 minutes of your life back. Untreated, mine last between 30 and 45 mins so the 02 saves me a lot of pain. Follow Batch's recommendations for the best chance.

If you google "cluster headache splitting injections" you'll find a tip on you tube how to get 4 doses from your 2 injections. Most people say 3 mg is enough to abort a CH.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Maz.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1785 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 2:16am
 
Hi Batch

Thanks for taking the time to give me so much information (#1783).  I have to admit that I initially saw only your first post in this thread and in desperation immediately started only on D3 and Omega 3 hoping for a miracle!  However, the good news is I have now been pain free for 4 nights and 3 days and truly believe I have reached the end of this particular bout (14 weeks)... I feel like a different person than I did a week ago of course!

However, I have printed off lots of information provided by your good self both about the regime and oxygen therapy, which I shall try to persuade my doctor to take a look at so that we're prepared for the next time the beast comes a-knocking on my door.

Batch you are a man among men.. thank you sir.

Regards
Martin
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1786 - Apr 16th, 2014 at 12:43pm
 
Hey Martin,

Thanks for the update...  If you stay on the anti-inflammatory regimen year-round... the odds are high there won't be a next time...  In other words, you should sail through your normal CH cycle time pain free...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1787 - Apr 17th, 2014 at 2:54pm
 
Recently started a cycle again and not sure where to go from here.  A little background:

My regular, maintenance regimen consisted of:

Omega-3 Fish Oil - 2000 mg
D3 - 10,000 IU
Magnesium Citrate - 400 mg
Calcium Citrate - 500 mg
Centrum Silver for Men
Zinc Oxide - 10 mg

This is the regimen I was using when I started a cycled at the end of December.  I upped my D3 dose to 15,000 IU on 1/9 and posted my 25(OH) results which came out to 93.9 ng/mL.  Batch recommended a baking soda tonic 4X/day and that I should stop taking calcium citrate for awhile.  I also added 500 mg of curcumin daily per his advice.

My cycle eventually subsided on 2/11.  After a couple of weeks being in the clear, I added 250 mg of calcium citrate back into my regimen along with taking the curcumin out of it. 

I recently started a new cycle on 4/8 so I again stopped taking calcium citrate immediately, added a weekly loading dose of D3 50,000 IU on 4/8 and added curcumin on 4/15.  I also started taking Super K complex on 4/12 and a baking soda tonic 4X/day on 4/15. 

I just received my 25(OH) results today for a test I took on 4/15 which came out to 111.0 ng/ML. 

This cycle has been pretty intense with multiple KIP 5-8 hits during sleep and have been somewhat resistant to O2. 

Any ideas and what I should try next?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1788 - Apr 18th, 2014 at 1:47am
 
Hey Slacker,

You're not alone.  I know what you're going through... It's happened to me and there are others reporting a similar recurrence of their CH over the last month or so...

I suspect the culprit is a high pollen count that's triggered an allergic response that's consuming the active vitamin D3 metabolite, 1,25(OH)2D3 at rates that leave too little to prevent CH.

I had a few days of burn through hits in mid March when the Alder pollen was coating my pickup like someone had dusted it with a bag of Portland cement.  The burn through hits started again in early April when the Maple pollen was turning my pickup yellow...

I've tried a few things that appear to have been effective in getting me back to a PF state...  The first is increasing the magnesium intake to 600 to 800 mg/day.  Magnesium is essential in the enzymatic processes that metabolize 25(OH)D to the active metabolite 1,25(OH)2D3. 

I also started the three month course of vitamin B 50 complex that Dr. Stasha Gominak suggests to her headache patients taking a similar vitamin D3 regimen. 

She's been prescribing this regimen for over six years and has the clinical data to back it up...  She added vitamin B 50 when some of her patients reported the basic regimen wasn't as effective as it had been in the past.  It worked...

B 50 is essentially a formulation of 50 mg each of the seven B vitamins and it should take care of any vitamin B deficiencies. 

Along with the B 50, I also started taking 1000 mg vitamin C two to three times a day every two hours.  The half life of vitamin C is 30 minutes after reaching Cmax.

Finally, I started popping 3 to 5 of the 5,000 IU vitamin D3 liquid soft gel capsules between my back teeth and holding the contents between my cheek and gums and kept it there for 20 minutes without swallowing.  I did this prior to bed at night as most of my burn through hits were coming while sleeping...

It takes a couple days for the 25(OH)D to build, but the vitamin D3 serum concentration goes up rapidly as it bypasses the lower GI tract and passes directly into the bloodstream through the cheek and gums.

The net effect was very short aborts when using oxygen therapy with hyperventilation and a pain free response by the second to third day after starting this method of taking vitamin D3.

You should be able to improve the effectiveness of your oxygen therapy and shorten the abort times by hyperventilating with room air for 30 seconds then inhaling a lungful of oxygen and holding it for 30 seconds...  Repeating this 4 to 5 times should be sufficient to abort most of your CH...

The important thing is the breathing technique while hyperventilating...  This breathing technique is called hyperventilating at forced vital capacity tidal volumes... 

You do this by standing with your jaw dropped like saying the work "Haw." Standing gives your diaphragm full range of motion and this increases lung ventilation.

Start this breathing technique by exhaling forcibly until it feels like your lungs are empty... they're not.  At that point do an abdominal crunch like doing situps and hold the squeeze it until your exhaled breath makes a wheezing sound for a couple seconds...  then through your shoulders back, head up and chest out and inhale rapidly using your diaphragm.

You should be doing 10 complete respiration cycles every 30 seconds while hyperventilating with room air...  Keep repeating this sequence until the pain stops completely.

If you're doing this properly, you should feel the symptoms of paresthesia when you inhale the 100% oxygen...  A very slight tingling/prickling of the face, lips, fingertips and chest area.  These sensations will build for 10 to 15 seconds after inhaling and holding the oxygen then dissipate until they're almost gone after 30 seconds when your restart the complete sequence again.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1789 - Apr 18th, 2014 at 2:36am
 
Batch,

Thanks for the info.  I'll get some B50 and vitamin C first thing tomorrow.  A few questions for clarification:

- Is there a particular brand of B50 complex you recommend?

- For the 3-5 capsules of D3 before bedtime, is that on top of my regular 15,000 IU dose that I'm taking after dinner?  And do you think it would work sublingually (under the tongue)?

- Should I keep taking a 50,000 IU loading dose one day a week?

-For the vitamin C, you said "1000 mg vitamin C two to three times a day every two hours".  I'm a little confused by this since 2-3 times per day and every two hours seem to conflict.  Can you clarify?

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1790 - Apr 18th, 2014 at 1:07pm
 
Hey Brian,

Good questions...  and poor wording on my part...

Regarding brands of vitamin B 50...  I'm a fan of Nature Made products primarily due to the USP logo on most of their products...  That means this product has been analyzed by an independent lab (USP) and found to meet purity and concentrations listed on the label.  Puritan's Pride is another good US brand.

You only need a max of 90 days supply and 60 will likely work to remedy any B vitamin deficiencies...  After that, the Mature Multi Adult 50 tabs should meet B vitamin needs.

Regarding the vitamin D3...  You can drop the 50,000 loading dose if you're popping 3 to 5 of the 5,000 IU liquid soft gels a day between your cheek and gums.  Absorption through the cheek and gums is about the same as under the tongue and a little less bothersome.

Regarding the 1000 mg vitamin C tabs...  Take one every two hours, 2 to 3 times a day...  You can take more if you like up to 5 times a day...  There's no problem with vitamin C toxicity... only bowel tolerance... 

The rationale and thinking behind taking vitamin C is based on its antiviral properties...  Any time we're puffed up with an allergic reaction, we're likely more susceptible to a viral infection.  In short, the vitamin C is just insurance against a viral infection that would also compete for vitamin D3 metabolites.

Hope this helps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1791 - Apr 18th, 2014 at 1:22pm
 
Batch wrote on Apr 18th, 2014 at 1:07pm:
Regarding the vitamin D3...  You can drop the 50,000 loading dose if you're popping 3 to 5 of the 5,000 IU liquid soft gels a day between your cheek and gums.  Absorption through the cheek and gums is about the same as under the tongue and a little less bothersome.


So just to clarify, instead of taking my usual 15,000 IU with a meal, I should dissolve 15,000-25,000 IU in my mouth before bed?

As for the B-50, after taking it for 3 months, can I start taking it again for another 3 months if another cycle hits?  And should I keep taking the mature multi tabs while taking the B-50?

Also, do you think taking melatonin before bed has any sort adverse effect on this regimen?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1792 - Apr 19th, 2014 at 6:27pm
 
Hey Slacker,

Yes to your first question.  Taking vitamin D3 this way will ensure its serum concentration will be relatively high during the time of your night hits... 

The vitamin D3 serum concentration will drop as your liver converts it to 25(OH)D...  After that, the 25(OH)D is further metabolized to 1,25(OH)2D3 in the kidneys and at the cellular/nuclear level throughout the body. 

It's this last extrarenal path (outside the kidneys) that takes place within the cell nucleus at vitamin D3 receptor, (VDR) sites at the genetic level, we think is responsible for the genetic expression that helps prevent CH.

1,25(OH)2D3 needs to bind with vitamin A (retinol) at the VDR for all this to function properly.  The Mature Multi has enough vitamin A for this purpose.

Regarding the B 50...  3 months is more than sufficient to take care of any B vitamin deficiency...  After that the Mature Multi should maintain adequate B vitamin levels.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1793 - Apr 19th, 2014 at 8:11pm
 
Got it.  Thanks again Batch.  I'll keep you guys updated.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1794 - Apr 22nd, 2014 at 12:24pm
 
Started the Vit D regimen two weeks ago.   Still getting some shadows.  Had my D serum test after 1 week of 10,000 iu per day and my level was 32 ng/ml.  Yikes.   Started on 20,000 iu per day and will take Batch's advice and load 60,000 once per week.  Will check back in.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1795 - Apr 23rd, 2014 at 2:37pm
 
Update:

Since I started taking B-50 complex, upping magnesium citrate to 600 mg and dissolving 15,000 IU before bedtime on 4/18, I've experienced a marked improvement.  I had one bad KIP 9 hit which I was unable to abort yesterday but most of my hits have been easily aborted within 5-10 minutes.  I also didn't wake up to any hits last night which is the first time in weeks that I've had a full night's sleep.

Batch, one question I forgot to ask...should I keep laying off the calcium citrate for now?

Thanks,
Brian
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« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2014 at 2:40pm by slacker032 »  
 
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1796 - Apr 23rd, 2014 at 6:27pm
 
Hey Brian,

Thanks for the update.  Vitamin B 50 was new to me until a few months ago when I started exchanging survey results with Dr. Stasha Gominak, MD, a neurologist at ETMC, Tyler TX. 

She's been using a similar regimen for her patients with sleep, chronic pain and headache disorders for over six years...  The only real differences is she adds a 3 month course of vitamin B 50...

She found nearly all her patients started experiencing quality sleep that lasted the night after adding the vitamin B 50...

Taking the calcium supplement is still a good idea...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1797 - Apr 23rd, 2014 at 6:45pm
 
Batch wrote on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 6:27pm:
Taking the calcium supplement is still a good idea...


Should I add back just 250 mg of calcium citrate or the full 500 mg?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1798 - Apr 23rd, 2014 at 8:11pm
 
Yes...  220 to 250 mg/day calcium should be sufficient...
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1799 - Apr 23rd, 2014 at 8:35pm
 
Got it.  Thanks Batch.
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