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haste25

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1950 - Jul 30^th, 2014 at 8:36am

Just wanted to say that, after my last post some two weeks ago, I have not had a cluster headache. My guess is that it took around three days for the added Magnesium, the K2, and the B50 to "kick in" to the regimen. Still some occasional shadowing if a) I wait longer than 24 hours to take my vitamins and B) the morning after I drink alcohol. But these are aborted with food and extra D3 or Excedrin. Nothing major.
This time, I will continue on the regimen even during remission.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1951 - Jul 30^th, 2014 at 9:16am

Hey TG,

Your comment "I just did not want to remain "toxic" for too long." caught my attention.

For starters... you're not toxic, (vitamin D3 intoxication)... even with a 25(OH)D serum concentration of 203 ng/mL. The real lower threshold for vitamin D3 intoxication is likely up around 300 ng/mL... or higher.

A 25(OH)D serum concentration of 203 ng/mL by itself is not an indication of vitamin D3 intoxication. The most reliable indication of vitamin D3 intoxication is a total calcium serum concentration above its normal reference range...

Serum concentrations of parathyroid hormone can also be elevated above the normal reference range in some cases of vitamin D3 toxicity.

Vitamin D3 intoxication is very rare... and there hasn't been a single death attributed to vitamin D3 reported to the FDA in the history of their adverse reaction database. We can't say that about verapamil and too many of the other medications prescribed for CH.

The two most common causes of vitamin toxicity are taking massive doses of vitamin D3 ~ a million IU/day or hyperparathyroidism. In either case, calcium homeostasis, the control mechanism that regulates serum calcium concentrations in a very narrow range, gets overloaded and calcium concentrations rise above the normal reference range...

The symptoms of vitamin D3 intoxication are severe enough that anyone experiencing them would go to the ER...

As it would be unethical to do a study to determine toxic doses of vitamin D3, the "experts" have used clinical data from a few cases where people mistakenly took massive doses of vitamin D3 or were given vitamin D2 at too large a dose and that resulted in serum calcium going over the the normal reference range to determine a "toxic" threshold.

There were at least two cases where vitamin D3 was improperly labeled and contained concentrations 10 to 100 times higher than indicated on the label. There was another case that involved a similar problem with vitamin D2.

The other mechanism that can result in vitamin D3 intoxication involves the parathyroid glands... There are four of them, each about the size of a grain of rice on the back side of the thyroid gland.

If one of these parathyroid glands becomes involved with an adenoma - a benign tumor of epithelial tissue with glandular origin, glandular characteristics, or both, it will produce too much parathyroid hormone (PTH). Too much PTH will, in turn, signal the kidneys to metabolize too much 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3, the active hormonal form of vitamin D3.

The increased serum concentration of 1,25(OH)2D3 pulls too much calcium from the gut overloading the calcium homeostasis control mechanism. When that happens, the total calcium serum concentration will rise above the normal reference range... and that... is vitamin D3 intoxication.

What the "experts" have done is reverse engineer the doses that resulted in vitamin D3 toxicity to determine a "safe" maximum tolerable dose of vitamin D3. They also determined a corresponding maximum serum concentration threshold of 25(OH)D that will not result in vitamin D3 intoxication for 95% of the people who take it...

If you believed the nanny state, big government bureaucrats on the Food and Nutrition Board at the Institute of Medicine (IOM)... you would be stuck with a maximum tolerable dose of vitamin D3 at 4,000 IU/day... These are the people who determine the Dietary Reference Intakes (DRI) for vitamins and minerals...

Big pharma would also like you and many physicians to believe vitamin D3 toxicity is a much bigger problem... Of course... That way they can sell more of their high priced pharmaceuticals that don't work as well to prevent CH, and which carry a long list of onerous side effects...

Big Pharma also leans on our elected officials in DC... This is called lobbying and it has already had an impact on coverage for oxygen therapy for Medicare beneficiaries suffering from CH...

If they get their way, obtaining over the counter vitamin D3 at the doses we need, will be next to impossible.

See the following link:

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Take care,

V/R, Batch

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feisty

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1952 - Jul 30^th, 2014 at 12:14pm

Mjedwards409 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

As far as me taking the D3 regimen...maybe someday. We spent about $100 just getting all of the vitamins for her. I already take a Multi, fish oil, zinc, and Saw Palmetto. Really I'd just be adding the D3.

FYI - the D3 (by itself) would be US$6.75 per person {edited to add} per month
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But yeah, it does add up.

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« Last Edit: Jul 31^st, 2014 at 1:03am by feisty »

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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1953 - Jul 30^th, 2014 at 11:17pm

hi guys,
I'll pull out my last receipt, but I got 10,000iu vit d3, 360 capsules, for around $26, delivered to Australia, $6.00 postage from U.S.A... which makes it, less than 10cents a dose, shop around, more and more outlets are stocking it as the news gets around and some good deals are to be had. But at less than 10 cents a dose, for all its benefits, its a no brainer, we spend more than that on a take away coffee every day !! I think I worked out the entire daily cost for the regime, from memory, 45cents a day, and im including postage on everything, if I titrate up on d3, it could escalate to 75 cents a day !! im looking more and more at bulk items, so i'll scan the internet, ebay all the time for buying bigger quantities.
regards
colin

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feisty CH.com Veteran Offline Posts: 205 west coast, BC, Canada Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1954 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 1:04am Agreed Colin! I made a mistake in my post, just corrected it
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thierry CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 406 Galway, Ireland Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1955 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 2:20am This Vit D3 is 10000iu per softgel, 360 softgels per tub, $23. 95 Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
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thierry CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 406 Galway, Ireland Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1956 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 4:59am Hi Miguel, did you receive your order from Iherb yet?
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Mjedwards409

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1957 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 6:43am

Batch and all,

First off, this morning I am celebrating a 3rd pain free night for my wife in a row. I have a few quick questions though:

-She is not used to taking so many pills and she gets fairly bad indigestion for about 2 hours after she takes them. We got all the same brands you recommended. Any tips on this? She takes them with dinner every night. (Largest meal of her day)

-She has had basically a constant mild tension headache over the past 3 days. (Not "shadows" really because they are a traditional whole-head HA) Has this happened to anyone else?

-Her stomach and bowel habits are become just a bit irritated. She is already on Magnesium Citrate and not Oxide. Any chance dropping from 500mg to 250mg would work effectively? She eats a lot of leafy green food and a lot of nuts otherwise. Like I mentioned before, a pill splitter isn't really an option because these are liquid gel caps.

Thanks all!!!

EDIT: It looks like the cost for D3 topic has gained some steam since I mentioned it. I certainly wasn't trying to say that this isn't a massive bargain depending on it's CH effectiveness. I was just referring to starying it myself being a non-CH sufferer who already takes a multi, fish oil, zinc, etc.

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« Last Edit: Jul 31^st, 2014 at 6:45am by Mjedwards409 »

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feisty

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1958 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 11:40am

Mjedwards, that is great that your wife has had three pain-free nights!

Quote:

She is not used to taking so many pills and she gets fairly bad indigestion for about 2 hours after she takes them. We got all the same brands you recommended. Any tips on this? She takes them with dinner every night. (Largest meal of her day)

Take pills before dinner, not after. It might help to use "coated" and "no fishy aftertaste" fish oil - I have sometimes had issues with capsules that don't specify that.

Quote:

-She has had basically a constant mild tension headache over the past 3 days.

Is she well hydrated? That should be a priority for a CH sufferer, esp in the summer.

Quote:

-Her stomach and bowel habits are become just a bit irritated. She is already on Magnesium Citrate and not Oxide. Any chance dropping from 500mg to 250mg would work effectively? She eats a lot of leafy green food and a lot of nuts otherwise. Like I mentioned before, a pill splitter isn't really an option because these are liquid gel caps.

I would get a pill form of magnesium so you can split if required to give her the correct dose. I can easily buy it at my local grocery store, or at any drug store. Also, did you check her multi? As I wrote before, a multi would normally have magnesium in it - if you are doing 500 mg on top of that, it would be a lot.

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Mjedwards409

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1959 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 2:26pm

feisty wrote on Jul 31^st, 2014 at 11:40am:

Mjedwards, that is great that your wife has had three pain-free nights!

Quote:

She is not used to taking so many pills and she gets fairly bad indigestion for about 2 hours after she takes them. We got all the same brands you recommended. Any tips on this? She takes them with dinner every night. (Largest meal of her day)

Take pills before dinner, not after. It might help to use "coated" and "no fishy aftertaste" fish oil - I have sometimes had issues with capsules that don't specify that.

Quote:

-She has had basically a constant mild tension headache over the past 3 days.

Is she well hydrated? That should be a priority for a CH sufferer, esp in the summer.

Quote:

-Her stomach and bowel habits are become just a bit irritated. She is already on Magnesium Citrate and not Oxide. Any chance dropping from 500mg to 250mg would work effectively? She eats a lot of leafy green food and a lot of nuts otherwise. Like I mentioned before, a pill splitter isn't really an option because these are liquid gel caps.

I would get a pill form of magnesium so you can split if required to give her the correct dose. I can easily buy it at my local grocery store, or at any drug store. Also, did you check her multi? As I wrote before, a multi would normally have magnesium in it - if you are doing 500 mg on top of that, it would be a lot.

Thanks Feisty! The multi has 50 mg of Magnesium Oxide so after the low absorption rate hardly any.

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1960 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 3:08pm

Hey MJ,

Great News! The general, mild headaches (global/bilateral) should clear in a few days... Make sure your wife has started the 3-month course of vitamin B 50.

Regarding the number of pills taken in this regimen... I've shopped around and there are a few things you can do to lower the pill count.

1. Buy the 10,000 IU vitamin D3 gel caps - your wife will only need one a day as a maintenance dose. Puritan's Pride has a great offer on 500 capsules of 10,000 IU vitamin D3 (5 bottles for $33.95) or 6.7 cents per 10,000 IU capsule.

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2. The Kirkland brand Mature Multi contains most of the vitamin D3 cofactors plus 220 mg of calcium. Only one capsule a day is needed. When the three month course of vitamin B 50 is complete, the Mature Multi contains enough of all of the B vitamins to prevent any further insufficiencies.

3. I take two of the Nature Made Omega-3 Fish Oil liquid soft gels and one of the Nature Made 400 mg magnesium liquid soft gels...

4. Adding the Super K with advanced K2 complex will bring the pill count to 6... 7 while taking the vitamin B 50.

Henry Lahore, the vitamin D3 Jedi Master at VitaminDWiki has gathered some excellent data on vitamin D3 and all the cofactors.

The following link is loaded with great information on vitamin D3 so should be required reading for all CH'ers.

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Henry has web crawlers running 7X24 picking up everything related to vitamin D3 including the latest RCTs. He posts the links or quotes these web articles as is, so it's best to be a critical reader.

You'll find good, bad, and other articles... Some very compelling and supportive of vitamin D3 therapy while some are obviously biased against its use...

If you dig deep enough on the bad articles... you'll find Big Pharma or their disciples involved in studies trying to scare people away from taking vitamin D3...

Henry is also good at pointing out poorly designed studies... or studies with conclusions that are not supported by the study data or design.

Henry also points out that most RCTs involving vitamin D3 are conducted at too low a dose (≤2000 IU/day) to obtain significant results and nearly all are conducted without any the vitamin D3 cofactors...

The two supplements in the anti-inflammatory regimen that cause the most GI tract problems are the Omega-3 Fish Oil and magnesium. Both, along with vitamin D3 and the rest of this regimen are best taken with the largest meal of the day.

It doesn't matter if you take these supplements and then eat, or eat first and then take them... As long as they're in the tummy with lots of food... you'll get the best absorption and least amount of GI tract problems.

I've found the 400 mg Nature Made magnesium oxide liquid soft gels to be as effective as the magnesium citrate and both are about equal in their capacity to trigger osmotic diarrhea... Henry likes the magnesium chloride...

The magnesium is clearly the culprit responsible for lower GI tract problems so by all means, drop the magnesium dose from 500 mg/day to 250 mg/day for a week or two. That should firm things up a bit...

That said, due to the important function of magnesium in supporting the enzymatic processes that metabolize vitamin D3, I wouldn't drop the magnesium dose any further. I'd also try to raise the dose back up to at least 400 mg/day.

Good on you for starting the anti-inflammatory regimen along with your wife. Your brain, heart, prostate, immune system along with the rest of your body will love you for taking it.

If you haven't figured it out by now... I'm of the opinion the entire family should be on this regimen even if they don't suffer from CH... The health benefits are too good to ignore...

On top of that, with our healthcare system going down the dumper... staying healthy is the only logical alternative... and it only costs around 40 cents a day...

I have my entire family taking this regimen... my wife, brother, three kids, their spouses and seven grand kids.

My daughter has been on this regimen for nearly two years... She went through a problem free pregnancy and delivered a very healthy baby girl...

Her OB was a little hesitant at first about my daughter taking 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and all the cofactors during her pregnancy, but he's since determined 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 is a great maintenance dose when taken during pregnancy along with the vitamin D3 cofactors, and... while breast feeding.

He now tests for 25(OH)D and makes sure all his pregnant ladies and breast feeding mothers have serum concentrations of at least 60 ng/mL.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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blacklab

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1961 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 5:57pm

Hi MJ, great news re ch headaches easing !
boy, I just found out how important magnesium is for the regime ! I dropped it completely for loose-ness reasons, a week later "pow" my shadows turned into full attacks !
I found another brand with 3 types of magnesium 400mg and quickly added it back in to the regime, with almost an instant reduction in ch attacks. will no if its better for looseness over the next few days !
Its a balancing act !
MJ, I too get the "tension type headaches" for me ,I believe that they are shadows, some feel like a mini ch attack, on one side, the others are an all over type headache, its just the beast getting confused ! usually an ice cold redbull gulped down real quick, sends it packing.
The one thing ive learn't about these cluster headaches is that nothing is normal, nothing is exactly the same from one cycle to another.
seems like there's progress being made now, so hopefully your wife continues to get on top of things
regards
colin

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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3706 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1962 - Jul 31^st, 2014 at 7:20pm Haste, Great news! Sorry I missed your post yesterday... Good plan on staying on this regimen year round... That will also let you experience the other health benefits made possible by this regimen. Take care, V/R, Batch
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Mr_Rob

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1963 - Aug 1^st, 2014 at 9:29pm

I started the inflammation regimen 6 days ago but having some unusual results. This week I have had much longer attacks than I have ever had before and they are more intense than usual.

I am one of the lucky ones in that my attacks are almost always 20-23 minutes long unless I am lucky enough for one of my home remedy abortives gets it to stop earlier. I might have one or two a year that lasts 45 minutes but never in 7 years have I had one last longer than that. I started the regimen with a loading dose of 50,000 iu D3 on Saturday. Had a level 8 Sunday night 25 minutes, nothing monday, and then a 2 and half hour one tuesday night. The first 25 minutes was about a 9 and then dropped to a 5 for the next 2 hours. Had another 25 minute 8 on wednesday night and then a 55 minute 9 last night, thursday.

I have been taking the following daily:
19200iu D3
2400mg Fish oil with 720mg Omega 3
10mg Melatonin
3500 IU Vitamin A
16mg Zinc
312mg Magnesium Oxide
533mg Calcium
90mcg K2
2000mg Vitamin C
360mg Verapamil
Other vitamins in my multivitamin

It actually seems to have made things much worse but I have been sticking with it for at least a week to get it all into my system and see if it helps.

Any suggestions on modification of what I am taking?

Until this past week, I have been taking 10mg melatonin and 240mg verapamil and 10,000 d3 for years and that helped prevent about half of my total attacks over a years time.

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1964 - Aug 2^nd, 2014 at 11:02am

Hey Mr_Rob,

Thanks for the feedback. Sorry you're having problems with the anti-inflammatory regimen...

Roughly 10% of CH'ers who start this regimen experience an initial up-tic in the frequency of their CH...

We're not sure why this happens, but the likely suspects are inflammation from any source and the process of invigorating the immune system. These conditions consume available 25(OH)D and the active vitamin D3 metabolite, 1,25(OH)2D3 at higher rates leaving insufficient concentrations to prevent CH.

Colds, flu and allergic reactions are common sources of inflammation along with trauma and surgery. Of these sources, allergies can be difficult to detect. Many of us suffer from sub-clinical allergic reactions with no obvious symptoms.

The good news is this problem goes away after a few weeks as 25(OH)D serum concentrations approach therapeutic levels... usually between 60 and 80 ng/mL, but in some cases higher.

Several CH'ers who experienced this up-tic in the frequency of their CH after starting this regimen found that stopping the calcium supplements for a few weeks helped.

Other CH'ers experiencing this problem found increasing the magnesium intake to 500 mg/day helpful. Magnesium is an essential part of this regimen as it supports the enzymatic processes that metabolize vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D and on to 1,25(OH)2D3, the active hormonal form of vitamin D3.

As both of the above steps help increase serum concentrations of 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)2D3 at the cellular level, I'd do both...

As you're taking close to 20,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and you've started the loading schedule, I suspect the frequency and intensity of your CH will start to drop in a few days.

You indicated you were previously taking 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 for over a year so it's difficult to tell if you need an additional loading dose of vitamin D3 unless you get a lab test for 25(OH)D.

Knowing your serum concentration of this vitamin D3 metabolite at this point is important as it can help determine if further vitamin D3 loading is needed and how much vitamin D3 you'll need to take as a maintenance dose.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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Mr_Rob

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1965 - Aug 2^nd, 2014 at 12:33pm

Thanks so much for the reply Batch. I did have surgery 4 weeks ago with an 8 week long recovery and I am also fighting an eye infection so that makes sense now with your explanation.

One question, I was unable to locate Magnesium Citrate in my small town, I could only find Magnesium Oxide. I have been wondering if this could be an issue as well. The calcium is Calcium Carbonate, not sure if that makes a difference either.

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1966 - Aug 2^nd, 2014 at 4:35pm

Mr_Rob,

Thanks for the update... The surgery and eye infection could have easily drained your 25(OH)D reserves...

There have been a couple studies that found magnesium oxide (60% magnesium by weight) just as effective in maintaining magnesium serum levels as magnesium citrate (11.3% magnesium by weight).

It appears the higher magnesium content of magnesium oxide compensates for the lower bio availability. I've been taking the Nature Made 400 mg magnesium oxide liquid soft gels... no problems.

There have been a couple studies indicating calcium citrate was absorbed 22% to 27% better than calcium carbonate... There's nothing wrong with using up the existing calcium carbonate when you restart the calcium supplement but I'd suggest switching to calcium citrate if you can find it...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Aug 2^nd, 2014 at 4:50pm by Batch »

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Mr_Rob CH.com Newbie Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5 x0\|Sapulpa\|USA\|\|0\|0\|OK,Oklahoma Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1967 - Aug 2^nd, 2014 at 4:44pm Good info. thanks for taking the time to share. Much appreciated!
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feisty

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1968 - Aug 5^th, 2014 at 4:00pm

Wow. I can barely wrap my head around the astounding lecture that I just watched. Batch recommended this and I'm so glad I watched it. It really helps with understanding the link between D3 and pain:

Dr. Stasha Gominak Discusses Sleep and Vitamin D
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edited to add: 2013 followup lecture:
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written summary:
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Her work really validates Batch's approach. Of course, Batch has taken things a step further by developing a regime with all of the critical cofactors that work with D3 - extremely important.

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« Last Edit: Aug 5^th, 2014 at 9:53pm by feisty »

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Miguel Amaral

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1969 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 7:06am

thierry wrote on Jul 31^st, 2014 at 4:59am:

Hi Miguel,
did you receive your order from Iherb yet?

Hi thierry ,

Only received the small order with the Super K
The other order with the D3 and the rest of the cofactors I have no sign of it .
And the big problem is that without a tracking number I don't know where the order is and I can't claim on the customs desk .....
I've made another order last week, now from a UK supplier, for the same vitamins and they should arrive tomorrow .
I have done the blood test already and results are ready on Friday and I'm starting the program as soon as the vitamins arrive .....
I'll keep posting the news .....
Thanks for asking !! Wink

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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1970 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 9:05am Crossing our collective fingers for you Miguel! Joe
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thierry

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1971 - Aug 6^th, 2014 at 2:29pm

Hi Miguel, so sorry to hear that your order from iherb has not yet arrived. Maybe if you order from them again you can choose a postage option that has a tracking number,-probably a bit more expensive though. It's great you have the super K anyway, it's an important part of the regimen that directs the calcium away from your arteries and tissues and directs it to your bones. Well, i hope you get your order from UK very soon and you can get started on the regimen.
All the best

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Miguel Amaral

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1972 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 7:10am

Hello ,

Received my blood tests . Next appoint. with my Dr is next Thursday just to show him the values ....

25 Hidroxiv D - 28.3 ng/mL
Calcium - 4.55 mEq/L (reference is 4.25 » 5.25 mEq/L)
Magnesium - 1.8 mEq/L (refrence is 1.3 » 1.9 mEq/L )

No surprise to see that the Vit D is really low ....
The magnesium value is a bit close to the upper reference value, should I expect any problems with this one when
taking the 400 mg /day ?

Expecting the vits order to arrive today ao that I can finally start my reg ...

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Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1973 - Aug 8^th, 2014 at 8:55am

Hey Miguel,

Thanks for the lab results. Your 25(OH)D serum concentration of 28.3 ng/mL is as expected. It's consistent with the average 25.4 ng/mL reported in the online survey of 127 CH'ers tested before starting the anti-inflammatory regimen.

Follow the suggested vitamin D3 loading schedule listed in the following link:

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Using this vitamin D3 loading schedule will build your 25(OH)D serum concentration safely and rapidly by an average of 60 ng/mL on top of your present 25(OH)D serum concentration. This is the fastest way of going pain free.

Be sure to ask for another lab test of your 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH (parathyroid hormone) after the 4-week vitamin D3 loading schedule.

Your serum magnesium concentration indicates a good healthy diet. I wouldn't worry about it at all. As one of the body's most important water soluble electrolytes and vitamin D3 cofactors, any excess is pumped over the side in urine.

Once you start taking the anti-inflammatory regimen, your body will start using that magnesium to support the enzymatic processes needed to metabolize vitamin D3.

Taking 400 to 500 mg/day of the magnesium supplement will be essential. If you start this regimen and don't supplement with magnesium, your natural serum concentration will drop to the point where further vitamin D3 metabolism will be degraded and this regimen may not be capable of preventing your CH. Too little magnesium will also result in a calcium-magnesium imbalance that can easily result in leg, arm or hand cramps.

Take care and please keep us posted once you've started this regimen. I'm confident you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.

V/R, Batch

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TheAndyT CH.com Junior Offline Love is our resistance... Posts: 65 North Hollywood, California Gender:	Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why Reply #1974 - Aug 11^th, 2014 at 10:11am Batch...question about the magnesium. I read that certain types may cause problems with our stool. Should I be taking the Citrate or Oxide form? I currently have what is the Triple Magnesium Complex, 400mg (as Oxide, Asparate and Oxide). Does this one also do the trick? Thanks in advance. -Andy
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