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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why (Read 446750 times)
Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2050 - Oct 3rd, 2014 at 6:56am
 
Hey Feisty,

Good on you for taking the time and effort to track down information on atrial fibrillation and any possible relationship to vitamin D3...

Had lighting struck that close to me or a love one... I'd have done the same thing.

The link you posted about too much vitamin D3 causing atrial fibrillation (AF), is actually old news... circa November 2011... and it's not very accurate news at that.

You picked the results part of this article that essentially shouts "Fire" in a theater, then hands out buckets of gasoline...

Now why would anyone want to do that???

Reading a little farther in the Vitamin D Council's analysis of this study, (I've been a member of the Vitamin D Council for nearly four years and talk with them frequently), you'll find a peer review based on common sense logic and knowledge of properly constructed RCTs... 

This study and the dupes who reported on its results were apparently attempting to scare people away from taking vitamin D3...  Again... who would want to do that?  Does the term "Big Pharma" ring a bell?

Had you posted sections from further down in the Vitamin D Council's analysis of this study, you would have found the following:

"The mechanism has yet to be accounted for by the investigators of the study. And many have cited that association does not necessarily translate to causation, and in consequence, we can’t take this study too seriously."

"What is unfortunate here is the lack of perspective in the MSNBC article. This study is a victim of poor journalism. The title reads like a siren, warning all who take vitamin D to stop. Much to our dismay, we are sure they achieved this for a portion of readers. "

If you read a lot of studies and articles involving vitamin D3 like I do, you get real good at spotting poorly constructed studies as well as studies with an obvious agenda designed to scare people away from taking vitamin D3...  Again... who would want to do that?

Prospective studies using vitamin D3 as a medical intervention that have either too low a vitamin D3 dose (<2000 IU/day) and/or none of the vitamin D3 cofactors are suspect.  Similar studies of vitamin D3 that don't track serum concentrations of 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH are also suspect.

My analysis of this article (and study abstract) found the researchers did not specify the actual range of 25(OH)D serum concentrations above 100 ng/mL. Remember, 25(OH)D is only a bio-marker...

This study also failed to measure serum calcium, PTH and calcium-creatinine ratio.  Any medical researcher who really understands the pharmacokinetics of vitamin D3 would have been familiar with these lab tests and incorporate them into the study protocol.  One of the biggest findings was not reported...  there were no indications of vitamin D3 intoxication among the study cohort...

Furthermore, there was no analysis of the cohort by age group, gender, demographics or epidemiological factors with respect to the incidence of AF.

As an example, in one study, "The AF incidence rate in the age group 55–59 years was 1.1/1000 person–years, rose to 20.7/1000 person–years in the age group 80–84 years and stabilized in those aged 85 years and above. Prevalence and incidence were higher in men than in women. The lifetime risk to develop AF at the age of 55 years was 23.8% in men and 22.2% in women.

Conclusion: In this prospective study in a European population, the prevalence and incidence of AF increased with age and were higher in men than in women. The high lifetime risk to develop AF was similar to North American epidemiological data."

See Prevalence, incidence and lifetime risk of atrial fibrillation at the following link for more detail.

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If you Google the following search terms, "atrial fibrillation vitamin D3 25(OH)D" you'll find there are tens of thousands of articles and studies on this topic...  Most link AF to low vitamin D3 status...  Only a handful attempt to attribute AF to excess vitamin D3, a 25(OH)D serum concentration > 100 ng/mL... and they all point to the same 2011 study.

Back to the diagnosis of AF...  If your husband was prescribed blood thinners...  Coumadin, (warfarin) or one of the newer generation blood thinners like Pradaxa... you need to read the following link.  It discusses controlling AF without drugs.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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thierry
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2051 - Oct 3rd, 2014 at 10:46am
 
Hi all, this is an appeal for the U.S friends on here. I have started the regimen over 1 1/2 year ago now and have been mostly pain free since after 3 weeks after starting the regimen, THANK YOU BATCH. I am currently taking the D3 and all the co-factors seperately. I live in Ireland and have looked on amazon.co.uk for the Kirkland mature multi, however the composition is different to the kirkland mature multi available in the U.S and does not suit the regimen as well.
I have queried amazon and was told that if i order from the U.S site, the order will be sent to me from U.K, so i would not receive the desired Kirkland mature multi.
I am wondering if any of you U.S folks would be so kind as to purchase some kirkland mature multi and send it to me here in Ireland. I can transfer funds through Paypal to cover all expenses (including postage and paypal costs). I would like to purchase 3 or 4 bottles of the stuff as I have my partner and my daughter on the regimen too.
I hope it is ok to ask this.
Anyone that would be willing to do this could send me a P.M.
Many thanks.
All the best to all here, may you be pain free.
Thierry
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feisty
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2052 - Oct 3rd, 2014 at 2:20pm
 
Thank you for your analysis of that study Batch. I hope that my posting that wasn't misinterpreted. The reason I did that was that it was shared with me by a person messaging me privately. I thought it would be helpful to get info out in the open here in the thread so that people who are sorting through symptoms can benefit from your response.

From my reading, it seems far more likely to develop AF from lack of Vitamin D3 than too much. And I completely agree with you that these studies are poorly done.

We will probably re-start my husband on the Regimen pretty soon. I have no concerns about its safety and I am convinced that the heart symptoms are not caused by the Regimen.
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Smiley wife of 48 year old husband who suffers from episodic CH ~ Batch's Anti-Inflammatory Regimen works!
 
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feisty
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2053 - Oct 17th, 2014 at 7:42pm
 
In case it's of interest, dh's re-tested 25(OH)D came out to be 56 ng/mL after not taking any D3 for a month. So my assumption was that he was well within the >60 ng/mL range once he was on the maintenance dose with the Regimen.
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Smiley wife of 48 year old husband who suffers from episodic CH ~ Batch's Anti-Inflammatory Regimen works!
 
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Hoppy
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2054 - Oct 18th, 2014 at 5:14am
 
G'day Thierry,
I posted an answer to your ? on Kirkland Multi under
Cluster Headache Specific on the main board, so to be
sure you get it.

Hoppy.
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tgdurst
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2055 - Oct 29th, 2014 at 6:07am
 
Checking back in still PF

Date of Test      D2 (ng/mL)      D3 (ng/mL)      Total (ng/mL)            Laboratory
Ref Range      

06/16/2014                < 4                    53
     
10/24/2014                < 4                    79

I have upped my D3 intake to 15k I.U. for the fall allergy season (just in case) but maintained a 10k up until Oct 1st.

You all take care. I will be back with my next results.

Todd
     
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« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2014 at 6:08am by tgdurst »  
 
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2056 - Oct 29th, 2014 at 8:06am
 
Hey Todd,

Thanks for the update and lab data...  Your 25(OH)D serum concentration is spot on and it confirms and validates what Dr. Robert Heaney, MD, has been saying all along.  "The average 25(OH)D response to a dose of 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 is 80 ng/mL."

I agree with your proactive approach in raising your vitamin D3 intake for the Fall allergy season.  I've done the same thing...  Lots of leaf mold spores blowing around here in the Puget Sound area.

Take care, thanks again and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Don B
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2057 - Oct 29th, 2014 at 4:21pm
 
Hi Batch, I am on the accelerated loading schedule for one more week, with the super dose being Tuesday. I will then back it down to 15,000 for two weeks and then the maintenance dose. I know it will vary from person to person, but in your experience, is there a typical response to this regimen given my level of 25 ? concern for toxicity ? I'm not too concerned about that; just want to get a feel for perhaps a typical response to the regimen with a baseline of 25, I expect to have more labs done in two weeks do you typically see an increase in 3 weeks that will bring the level from 25 into at least the 80's ? also, a history of kidney stones, any adverse reactions that you know of on the regimen ? By the way thanks so much for everything minimal CH's in the past week aborted with oxygen   

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2058 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:07pm
 
Hi Don - get another blood test and let us know the results - generally you should be safe at <100 ng/ml - I regularly test around 70-90 ng/ml every three months and I'm on 20k daily D3.  If any doctors freak out, find new doctors - my Neuro has been awesome about - has handed me 7 lab slips to get tested as long as I want - shes even started talking to other patients about this regiment.  I have been PF for about 1 year now.  GL and PF days/nights!
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Don B
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2059 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 3:44am
 
Thanks TeeJ.
I have an appt. set for more lab work. Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear that you are pain free, an I hope it stays that way !
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Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2060 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 10:18pm
 
G'Day Folks
I tried this regimen about two years ago with initial success, unfortunately it culminated in a horrible cycle which saw me bolting back to my trusted verapamil. Howeve, given the successes achieved here since then I have decided to give it another try. A question I have though, I have read here of the interaction between calcium and verapamil and the need to seperate the doses of each by 12 hours. I'm on 480mg of verap a day in 3 equal doses so I never have a 12 hour window. How do others approach this, should I just exclude the calcium from the regimen? Your advice will be much appreciated.
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2061 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 11:23pm
 
Hey Wayne,

As long as the verapamil is working... skip the calcium.  You can always add it back after a favorable response...  220 mg/day should  be sufficient.

Be sure to check out the latest version of this regimen...  I've added a 3-month course of vitamin B 50.

You can find it at the following link:

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Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2062 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 12:50am
 
Thanks Batch, yes I did look at the latest version including the vit b50, I've matched the items as best I can.
Cheers,
Wayne
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2063 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 6:08am
 
Wayne,

I should have known you'd be up on the latest... 

Your All Blacks — New Zealand's and the world's top Rugby team — jumped ugly on USA's Eagles 74-6...  A sellout crowd of 61,500 at Chicago's Soldier Field was the largest to witness rugby in the United States.

The score wasn't all that interesting... but the level of play was amazing.  I watched the whole thing...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2064 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 2:03pm
 
Batch,

Oh yes, I was glued to the screen myself. The All Blacks are in a class of their own at the moment, hope it lasts through next years world cup. I was really impressed at the crowd turnout, hopefully it will serve as a catalyst to elevate rugby a bit in the USA, it would be great to have a really competitive USA team on the world stage.
Maybe its a small payback for last years Americas Cup horror Smiley

Cheers,

Wayne
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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
 
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2065 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 2:57am
 
hi batch....and wayne
   gee batch,  I watched the game myself the other day,
     after 20 odd years of playing rugby in n.z,  my body is sure paying for it now !!   and they seem to be twice the size now from when I played !!!!
     sure was a fantastic turn out from the americans !

colin
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Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2066 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 4:53pm
 
Hello Folks

Time for some feedback. I've been on the D3 regimen for 2 full weeks now. When I started I was on verapamil but suffering frequent breakthroughs and annoying shadows. As I am on verapamil i take the D3 cofactors but not the calcium.
Since day 3 I have not had one CH attack and over the last week the shadows have cleared completely, I am feeling better than I have in a while which is probably due in equal parts to getting a good nights sleep, the enhanced vitamin intake and being PF for an extended period.
While its early days yet this is quite positive I think. I'm scheduled for the 25 (OH) D test on Monday so will see where that sits and adjust the D3 intake accordingly.
I passed the beer test last night without even a flicker, which bodes well for the weekend Smiley
FYI any other Kiwi's out there battling under the restrictive D3 policy here, I ordered my 5000iu soft gels through iHerb, took 9 days to get here and didn't even flicker at customs. It is so much easier taking 2 small gels instead of 10 large ones.

Cheers,

Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2067 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 5:30pm
 
Awesome news Wayne. I just had my 25(OH)D taken yesterday after being on the D3 regimen for a month. my story is much like yours and I expect my level to have gone from around 25 to the mid 80's just finishing a beer now and that's a huge deal. Congrats. I'm happy for ya....
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2068 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 5:52pm
 
Great news Wayne. It is simply amazing how much difference such simple things like sleeping through the night and being pain free make.

Plus good timing with the beer test for the run up to Xmas and New Year too.
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2069 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 6:16pm
 
Wayne, Don,

Thanks for the wonderful feedback on your experiences with the anti-inflammatory regimen in preventing your CH...  It's first hand experiences like yours that gets the wallflower CH'ers off the sidelines and gives them the motivation they need to start this regimen.  Thank you again for sharing it with us...

Your 25(OH)D lab results are equally important as they help nail down the therapeutic response range for this vitamin D3 metabolite.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2070 - Nov 21st, 2014 at 3:32pm
 
Are you guys still taking the medication by the doctors and this regiment?
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Mike NZ
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2071 - Nov 21st, 2014 at 5:49pm
 
urlilbrat wrote on Nov 21st, 2014 at 3:32pm:
Are you guys still taking the medication by the doctors and this regiment?


At first I was using both verapamil as a preventive plus the D3 regime, however not too long after starting the D3 my CHs stopped and I stopped the verapamil. I've been CH pain free now for almost 3 years and am still using D3.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2072 - Nov 21st, 2014 at 6:01pm
 
Same as Mike , I was concerned about long term affects of verap. Anti inflammatory regimen is doing the trick for me
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2073 - Nov 21st, 2014 at 9:10pm
 
Its a great read, that you guys are staying pain free like
myself who are taking vitamin D3 regime. Its a wonderful
world without having the  Smiley as a
passenger.

Hoppy.
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Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #2074 - Nov 22nd, 2014 at 5:25pm
 
urlilbrat wrote on Nov 21st, 2014 at 3:32pm:
Are you guys still taking the medication by the doctors and this regiment?

I'm still taking verapamil along with the D3 and will certainly stay on both until I am at least sure that my D3 is at therapeutic levels, then probably start titrating off the verapamil. I can see that that will be a tough decision though, I'm enjoying this pf time and don't want to rock the boat.
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