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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why (Read 445438 times)
LasVegas
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #425 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 7:51pm
 
LasVegas wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 10:02pm:
Over 1 month ago started this regimen with 15K IU D3, Magnesium Citrate 500MG, Omega3 3600MG, Calcium Citrate 500MG, all washed down w/ a tall glass of lemonade containing 12% juice with dinner.

Still no relief and am in very high cycle.

Got online and went to LabsMD at Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register and ordered the 25(OH) D test for this Monday.  Cost $59 bucks and should post findings on this thread no later than Wednesday.



Yesterday after they drew my blood, was told results could take up to 9 days.  Just received results in less than 24 hours.  Truly exceptional company and highly recommend-see link above.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Result: 103.0 HIGH
Reference Interval: 32.0--100.0

Effective 11/21/2011, Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy reference intervals will be changing to 30--100

Recent studies consider the lower limit of 32.0 ng/mL to be a threshold for optimal health.
Hollis BW.  J Nutr.  2005 Feb;135(2) :317-22."
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About 6 or 7 weeks of this anti-inflammatory regimen and am in high cycle with 6 to 12 attacks daily.  Obviously no benefit thus far but will continue in hope it eventually helps.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #426 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 2:03pm
 
Hi all,

I am now just over 3 weeks into Pete's and my wife's CH - [pH] boot camp therapy..
It seems as things are somewhat better, hardly any day time CH episodes, And if day episode, a low level and short, easily treated with O2, at 40lpm. Within 5 min. including extra time to abort, not only the symptoms (pain),but the cause!

As for the night, don't have it totally under control, pain level during a CH episode is distinctively diminished and easily treated with O2, at 40lpm. Within 5 min. including extra time to abort, not only the  symptoms (pain),but the cause!

It is too short of an experience, to pass an objective and realistic
statement,it does seem to work, and provide the sought-after relief (partial relief),even if it is just the placebo effect.

Open is the lab work, testing and supervising the various levels cardinal to This procedure, as well as avoiding any adverse effect that might accrue.   

I would like to point out:

•      The anti-inflammatory properties of Omega 3 Fish Oil and the synergistic effect of the calcium citrate in this regimen on CH when taken together juice high in citric acid to lower arterial pH may be playing an important role in lowering the frequency and severity of my CH.

•      I'm already dosing continuously on vitamin D3 and calcium due to osteoporosis due to an allergic reaction resulting from the betamethasone used in the occipital nerve blocks I was having to combat CH.  The D3 is coming from an implanted reservoir and not orally...  The vitamin D3 reservoir has been keeping my 25(OH)D well within the normal reference range.

•      As a 7/24 chronic heavy hitter for over 5 years, I've tried everything including a greater occipital nerve implant stimulator and I was still getting slammed...  After three weeks on this regimen, I'm experiencing a noticeable reduction in the frequency and severity of my CH.

•      I [try to] remain objective...  My CH are not gone, but they are clearly less frequent, less severe and easily  manageable with oxygen therapy at 40 lpm... Perhaps giving my body what it needs to combat CH is a better course of action than using the nuclear option on the symptoms...


And back to work and sore the sky with a sailplane……… and my obscurity…..



Michael

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #427 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 6:07am
 
Todd, Kudzu, Gregg, ClusteredChef, and Michael,

Thank you for the SITREPs and the results of your 25(OH)D labs while on the anti-inflammatory regimen.  This is really helping to define the optimum 25(OH)D range for CH'ers and the efficacy of this regimen.  That includes reports that "It's not working" or "No Change" as they help define the lower bounds.

I've been collecting data on 25(OH)D levels reported here at CH.com and by direct email with respect to CH activity for the last few months.   

For the CH'ers who were experiencing active CH attacks and had the lab test for 25(OH)D done either before starting this regimen or within a few days after starting it.  So far, all were ≤ 105 nmol/L (42 ng/mL).  In short, this data supports a general statement, that all of the CH'ers who reported their results of this lab test with active CH, were vitamin D3 deficient... 

Think about that for a minute... Is the relationship coincidental as most of us are vitamin D3 deficient unless we're supplementing or one of the outside trades out in the sun with skin exposed for several hours a day... or is the relationship causal? 

Could CH be like Rickets where a vitamin D deficiency or impaired metabolism of vitamin D3 causes a softening of bones in children...  or in our case, where something in the pathophysiology of cluster headache is enabled by the same deficiency or impaired metabolism of vitamin D3, magnesium, phosphorus or calcium?   You decide...

CH'ers who have gone pain free dosing on vitamin D3 at 10,000 I.U./day and had this test done after 30 to 90 days while on this regimen reported 25(OH)D levels in a range of 150 nmol/L, (60 ng/mL) up to 225 nmol/L, (90 ng/mL)...  Todd, you're in the zone...  Good on you... 

We still have exceptions...  One CH'er who has been working closely with his primary care physician and having his 25(OH)D as well as Chem panel and CBC tests done monthly, reported his 25(OH)D at 295 nmol/L (118 ng/mL) at the 90 day mark while dosing at 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3. 

As high as these levels may sound, they're well below the vitamin D3 intoxication threshold of 500 nmol/L (200 ng/mL).  Although he's not completely free of his CH, he's not lost any time away from work because of them and the few CH he does have are easily managed with oxygen therapy. 

We're learning a lot about the effect of this regimen on CH... and there's clearly more to be learned.  Time to a therapeutic response, (experiencing a significant reduction in the frequency and severity of their CH or going pain free), has been reported by most at between two days and three weeks with the majority experiencing relief from their CH by the end of the second week.  A few have taken longer.

We've also learned from a number of studies that we would need to take significantly higher doses of vitamin D3 than 10,000 I.U./day to reach the lower threshold for vitamin D3 intoxication. 

The Vitamin D Council at Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register lists the toxicity threshold level at 500-750 nmol/L, (200-250 ng/mL).  Lots of great information about vitamin D3 and the cofactor mineral supplements on this site.

Another great site for vitamin D3 information is Grassroots Health at Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register Their home page features a plot of 3667 people who have had lab tests for 25(OH)D collected every six months during their participation in an international survey hosted by GrassRoots Health that started in 2008. 

The voluntary participants in this survey have been taking a range of vitamin D3 doses from zero to 10,000 I.U./day while having their 25(OH)D level tested every six months.  There's a $60 fee each 6 months for sponsorship in the 5 year project which includes a complete new 25(OH)D test kit, new questionnaire entry and reporting of results.

The most significant finding from this survey is all participants dosing at ≤ 10.000 I.U./day vitamin D3 have remained below the vitamin D3 intoxication threshold of 500 nmol/L (200 ng/mL) 25(OH)D.

I found the attached paper on Anticancer Research titled: Vitamin D Supplement Doses and Serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D in the Range Associated with Cancer Prevention that used data from the GrassrootsHealth survey above.  It has a table that shows that over 300 participants have been dosing at 10,000 IU/day as illustrated in the graph on the GrassrootsHealth home page, many for more than a year at this point...  and all remain below the vitamin D3 threshold for toxicity. 

I've sent the authors of this paper an email asking for a breakout of participants dosing at 10,000 I.U./day with their 25(OH)D response curve over time in six-month increments as far out in months as the data supports... I'll let you know if and how they respond...

The raw efficacy of the anti-inflammatory regimen as a CH preventative is encouraging...  As of the end of October, nearly 100 CH'ers have reported starting this regimen here at CH.com, at ClusterBusters, or directly to me by email.  70% reported a significant reduction in the frequency and severity of their CH and most of them have gone pain free. 

Granted these results are anecdotal and some of the successes could be due to end of cycle or to a lesser extent, the placebo effect... as Michael pointed out.  Nonetheless, the dramatic change in quality of life experienced by the 70% while on this regimen is difficult to explain any other way...

9 CH'ers have reported it didn't work and stopped taking the regimen.  None of them reported having their 25(OH)D levels tested.  4 of these 9 gave up after two weeks.  2 of the 9 may have experienced allergic reactions to one or more of the anti-inflammatory regimen supplements.  The remaining 3 reported other medical problems.  It's possible that some comorbid conditions interfere with this regimen. 

It's comments like this that add more definition to the efficacy not to mention good reason to see your PCP or neurologist about this regimen.  And when you do, have the 25(OH)D and other labs done if you've been on this regimen for more than a month and have not experienced a reduction in the frequency or intensity of your CH.

The remaining 21% are still in the hunt.  They haven't experienced the same favorable response as the others, but they're still taking this regimen... and building 25(OH)D levels...  That implies a margin of uncertainty to the 70% efficacy of ±21% as these CH'ers could go either way...

The simple fact is we don't know if CH'ers in this category are going to respond more completely or not at all to higher 25(OH)D levels.  The good news is the Grassroots Health data appears to give us room to try without fear of experiencing vitamin D3 intoxication...

That said, even though dosing on vitamin D3 at 10,000 I.U./day is far less risky than taking verapamil, depakote (Valproic Acid), or the off-label anticonvulsants frequently prescribed to prevent CH... pushing 25(OH)D levels higher than 200 nmol/L (80 ng/mL) should be done under a physician's supervision with monthly labs for 25(OH)D, Chemistry Panel and CBC.

I think Michael hit on an important point...  Giving our body what it needs to combat CH may be a lot better than taking the more invasive prescription medications with onerous side effects to control the symptoms...

That brings me to the closing point... I'm just an old retired fighter pilot and not a doctor even though I did stay at a Holiday Inn a few years ago...  but I've learned a few things over the years that tend to keep life in balance...  A 70% solution is like low hanging fruit... if it works...  go for it and stick with it...  If you screw up...  unscrew it if possible... 

Moreover, one of life's more enjoyable moments for a pilot is walking out the door saying... "I'm out to launch" like Michael did... then take a sail plane up for a few hours of breathtaking circuits over the Alps... with only the sound of your breath and wind over the canopy in your ears... Awesome...

There's little in life that compares with strapping on an aircraft and slipped the surely bonds... as the prayer goes...  Flying through the sky leaving life's problems behind you on the ground does something to you... 

The joy of flying and sense of freedom it brings is so exhilarating it leaves you with a heightened sense of awareness... In that respect, it's a lot like going pain free from cluster headaches and knowing why... You're in control...

Thanks again and take care.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #428 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 7:10am
 
Hi Batch

I think that the remaining 30 % that haven't experienced the same favorable response could be that they still using drugs like prednisolone etc.. One of the actions of vitamin-D is to get rid of synthetic components in the body. Therefor you often see that prednisolone users have very low level of vitamin-D. Studies have also shown that drugs don't have the same affect in the summer period do to higher vitamin-D level.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #429 - Nov 5th, 2011 at 4:01pm
 
Hello to all. My previous episode of clusters was back in march/April of this year. I started taking 10,000 d3 and 3600 omega 3. Upon 2 days of doing so, my cluster faded and in less than a week, they were gone. Life was great. On may 31st, my wife gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. I felt like Batch had saved me just in time. Fast forward to last Friday, October the 28th. I woke up at 3am with a very minor kip 1/2. Wasn't even sure if it was a cluster. I was able to lay back down and fell asleep again. The next couple nights, awoke with kip 3/4s. Hit the oxygen and was able to sleep. Came back here to read up to see if anyone else has had the beast returned and noticed that I was missing a big part of of the regimen.  I added calcium citrate with mag and zinc to my daily routine. It was 2 days of doing so, and I only had minor Clusters. Then, at about 12:30 last night, I was hit with an 8/9 for 2 hours. I tried O2 3 times and even took an imitrex. Nothing helped. My wife sat up with me while the baby slept. As soon as the beast left, I was exhausted and wanted to finally sleep, but my daughter woke up and it was my turn to take care of her since my wife had to work in the early morning. Sorry for the ramble. It just makes me nervous to be in full blown season again with a baby that counts on me to be able to provide care. Has anyone else that had prior success have the beast return? Is there something I should be doing that I'm not? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

FYI, 90% of my season have been left side. This time around, right side. Not taking verapamil or anything else.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #430 - Nov 6th, 2011 at 5:32pm
 
SD1,

Thanks for the SITREP...  You've provided a new datum and another dimension to the range of effectiveness this regimen has to prevent CH.  I read all the posts on this regimen I can find.  So far, you're the first that's had a relapse while still taking it.  There's usually a reason for a change in CH patterns like this...  The trick is to determine what it is... then do something about it.

From the information I've collected so far, it's clear there are limits to the effectiveness of this regimen as an anti-inflammatory.  If you compare it with a prednisone taper... we found that during the Cluster Headache Survey 1134 of us took in late 2008, 384 (56.39%) out of 681 rated it as effective.  So far, 70 out of 100 have CH'ers have rated the anti-inflammatory regimen effective.

Increasing the vitamin D3 dose above 10,000 IU/day doesn't appear to increase effectiveness and the data is still inconclusive as to higher doses working faster.

However, adding the Omega 3 Fish oil, another anti-inflammatory, along with the calcium citrate, magnesium and zinc, known vitamin D3 cofactors, did increase the overall effectiveness of vitamin D3.

Several CH'ers found that taking juice high in citric acid along with the calcium citrate helped as well.  As this combination forms a buffer that can elevate arterial pH, it suggests the two mechanisms in play that this regimen can alter to provide relief from CH are neurogenic inflammation and a low arterial pH.

That said, here are a few things I would try in the event of a relapse: 

For starters, I would have my doctor order the lab test for 25(OH)D, or I would go on the Internet and order this test from one of the on-line medical labs. I've found there are essentially two methods for this test you can order.  One requires you to go to a local facility for a blood draw and the other uses a blood spot test kit they mail to you so you can do the collection yourself at home with a small blood spot then mail the dried blood spot back for analysis...

Seeing your doctor for a Chemistry panel and CBC lab test is also a good idea.  These lab tests can provide you and your doctor with calcium and electrolyte levels as well as other indications of potential comorbid conditions that may be interfering with this regimen.

Knowing your actual 25(OH)D level will help.  The experts who have studied thousands of people taking oral vitamin D3 at doses up to 10,000 IU/day, say that serum level concentrations of 25(OH)D stop climbing and level off after 5 months at vitamin D3 doses of 5,000 to 10,000 IU/day. 

They also indicated the mean 25(OH)D level after 5 months at a daily dose of 10,000 IU/day would be 225 nmol/L, (90 ng/mL), or equal to that of a Southern California life guard, but that variations in rates of metabolism and other factors could push this level up to as high as 300-350 nmol/L, (120-140 ng/mL).  They were also emphatic in saying that in all the test data they'd observed for vitamin D3 doses up to 10,000 IU/day, all were safely below the lower threshold for vitamin D3 intoxication at 500-700 nmol/L, (200-280 ng/ml).

The next thing I would try is taking the calcium citrate with lemonade, limeade, or another fruit juice high in citric acid.  If I was already doing this, I would add another one or two of the calcium citrate tablets along with the fruit juice for a week or two in order to increase the buffering effect.

One of the indications that a low arterial pH may be the culprit is oxygen therapy becomes less effective and aborts take much longer when arterial pH is low.  This happens even when using oxygen flow rates that support hyperventilation using proper breathing techniques.

If that didn't work I would try benadryl (diphenhydramine), an antihistamine, in case an allergic reaction was interfering with the anti-inflammatory regimen.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #431 - Nov 6th, 2011 at 5:47pm
 
How does this anti-inflammatory regimen interact with Verapamil?  Calcium citrate?  Dosage times of day to benefit most?  etc.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #432 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 5:30am
 
LasVegas wrote on Nov 6th, 2011 at 5:47pm:
How does this anti-inflammatory regimen interact with Verapamil?  Calcium citrate?  Dosage times of day to benefit most?  etc.


There's the beauty of naturally occurring supplements...  there are very few contraindications...   That said, this is is a good question to ask the physician who prescribed verapamil for your CH...  Your physician will likely say take them at different times to lessen any possible interference... 

A search of available open source information on the supplements in this regimen turned up very little and when you consider the fact that even water can be hazardous if you drink too much...  the phrase "all things in moderation" comes to mind.

The only thing that rang a bell was a moderate contraindication between verapamil and calcium supplements as you pointed out in your question... 

In the process of running this contraindication to ground I found the following on the Mayo Clinic site:

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"When given through an intravenous (IV) line, calcium may decrease the effects of calcium channel blockers, such as nifedipine (Adalat, Procardia), verapamil (Calan, Covera-HS, others), diltiazem (Cardizem, Dilacor XR, others) and others. In fact, IV calcium is used to help reverse calcium channel blocker overdose. There's no evidence that oral calcium supplements interfere with calcium channel blockers. To be safe, check your blood pressure regularly if taking calcium channel blockers and calcium supplements at the same time."

The only other note of caution should go without saying...  See your primary care physician or go to the ER if you think you're having a reaction to any medication including the supplements in this regimen.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #433 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 11:42am
 
Thanks for your reply Batch!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #434 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 12:18pm
 
The only mistake in this treatment is to add calcium citrate. This is usually not necessary if you get enough from your diet, which most do. One of the actions of vitamin D is that you absorb more calcium from your diet and an extra supplements will only increase the risk of developing heart / vascular diseases.  Wink
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #435 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 12:29pm
 
Batch, thank you so much for the response.  Ive been on the calcium citrate, mag, zinc for a few days and still waking up with clusters.  I am also inquiring with my Dr. to have Ph levels measured.  I will pick up some lemonade today and see how I do with that.  I was hit last night but was able to abort with O2 only to have it return about 2 hours later in which I took an imitrex and hit the O2 again.  I was good about 30 min later.  One thing that I have noticed is that I am only being attacked at night.  Shortly after I fall asleep. Previous seasons have been both day and night.  During the day, not even a shadow.  And as mentioned before, this time around is on the opposite side of the head for me than normal (right side).  I've been holding off taking verapimil and even the water treatment (both have done well for me in the past) to try to see if I can get the vitamin d regimen dialed in.  Again, thank you and I will keep you posted.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #436 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 12:58pm
 
SD1,
I'm going to chime in here and others may pickup addtl advice.  I have been on this anti-inflammatory regimen for almost 2 months and have not received any benefit to my CH's whatsoever.  In fact my attacks have gotten more intense and more frequent in these past few weeks.

Even though I have not received CH benefit from this regimen, I still swallow my 13 tablets on a daily basis in hopes it helps my CH's.  Regardless of CH's, this regimen is natural and healthy for other areas of my body.

I too had the same thought as you....hold off on the Verapamil in hopes this natural anti-inflammatory regimen kicks in fast as reported beneficial to others. 

For me, this was a torturous mistake!  I am in week 13 of a very high cycle (8+ attacks daily) and started Verapamil last week which I understand may take 2 weeks to hopefully become effective.  I waited to start the Verapamil as I would prefer something non-harmful such as this regimen opposed to Verapamil which does have medical risks/side effects to the user.  I'm sure you can easily do the math, I have regretfully gambled on this regimen, holding off on Verapamil, while being tortured many times daily for many weeks in hopes this regimen would help. 

My experience gambling on this regimen, holding off on preventative meds such as Verapamil, has cost me thousands of dollars of time away from work, hostile conflicts with my boss and potentially being terminated from my job, a loss of 4+ yr relationship with girlfriend, countless nights sleep, public humiliation, unproductivity in every aspect of my life and extreme emotional stress to dear family.

Personally, I would not wait on holding off a transitional med (Prednisone taper) and preventative treatment (Verapamil, Lithium, etc) for your CH's in hopes this new regimen may/not work for you. 

What if you are like me and the regimen is not effective?  Then you just prolonged the torture by the DRAGON. 

The decision is obviously yours, but this is my unfortunate experience hoping this new regimen would be effective.  I personally could not endure the torture and be patient any longer for something that may/not be effective, and therefor started Verapamil which there is no guarantee this will be effective either, but has helped me in past cycles and has proven to be the best line of preventative defense for most CH sufferers.

Your night time attacks by the DRAGON are common because your co2 levels rise as you relax and go into REM sleep about an hour or two after you fall asleep. 

O2 therapy when used properly-hyperventilating with a NON-rebreather mask at high flow rates (25--40 lpm) should be of assistance with your night time attacks. 

O2 therapy requires ALOT of patience and ALOT of effort, particularly in middle of the night when you are very tired.

However, the alternative abort is a triptan med such as Imitrex injections which should abort the attack much faster than o2 without the time and effort, yet will most likely result in rebound attacks an hour later.

I am just one of few that this regimen has not proven beneficial, and it may very well provide relief for you as it has proven very effective for others, there is always hope!

That's my 2 cents...Good Luck!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #437 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 2:01pm
 
Hi LasVegas

For some the  anti-inflammatory regimen can take up to 6 months to work.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #438 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 2:07pm
 
nhs wrote on Nov 7th, 2011 at 2:01pm:
Hi LasVegas

For some the  anti-inflammatory regimen can take up to 6 months to work. 


I'm not advocating not trying it, just sayin when one is cycle, might not want to gamble on this alone!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #439 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 2:40pm
 
SD1,

The night CH attacks are a classic indication of low arterial pH and low oxygen levels.  When we sleep most of us go through a two hour cycle reaching REM sleep around an hour after falling asleep.  Not so strangely, that's when the CH hit...  The simple reason... and there are others...  is this, during sleep, our respiration rate drops to it's lowest with the smallest tidal volume of inspired breath... This results in less oxygen and a slight buildup of CO2.  For CH'ers, this is the perfect storm.

As CO2 disassociates into carbonic acid in blood serum...  this shifts the pH of arterial blood lower.  To make matters worse, a low arterial pH also limits the ability of hemoglobin to transport oxygen...  If you toss in a dietary condition or a comorbid condition that results in lower arterial pH, you're solidly behind the 8 ball and will get hammered.

Increasing the calcium citrate by a tablet or two and washing it down with lemonade will help elevate arterial pH.  There are alkalizing diets that will help as well.  See the chart for alkaline forming food types in the table at the end of the following link:  Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

As far as going in to see your doctor for a pH test...  it's a single shot in the dark that will only flag pH levels outside the reference range (7.35-7.45).  Our pH will flux widely throughout the day and from day to day. 

The best way I've found to track my pH is at home was using pH test strips to measure saliva pH.  It tends to parallel arterial pH but lags behind changes in arterial pH by 10 to 15 minutes, the time it takes the salivary glands to produce saliva from the blood stream.

I've an excel worksheet that will help track your daily average saliva pH by taking a measurement three times a day, morning before breakfast, around noon before lunch, and in the evening prior to going to bed.  When you average these three measurements you'll have a daily average.  Shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send it to you.

The excel worksheet also has an entry for a pH measurement at the start of a CH attack and 5 minutes after completing an abort with oxygen therapy.  If you track your pH for a couple weeks you notice that as the daily average drops, the frequency of your CH will go up.  You'll also notice an increase in saliva pH (more alkaline) 5 minutes after you complete oxygen therapy.  All these entries will plot on another tab and will look like the following chart:

This chart covers a two week period where I took the three saliva pH measurements each day for my daily average saliva pH and also the pH changes associated with the first CH attack of the evening.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

The green line was my daily average pH.  The red line and dots represent saliva pH at start of a CH and the blue line and dots represent saliva pH 5 minutes after completing oxygen therapy.  The percentage figures represent the pulse oximetry readings taken upon waking with a CH and 5 minutes after completing oxygen therapy.

The link to PHION for the test strips follows:  Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #440 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 4:08pm
 
Hi Batch

Very interesting reading about the PH level and CH attach. One of the quickest ways to raise PH is to take a teaspoon of baking soda in a glass of water. Have you ever tried this doing a CH period?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #441 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 6:38pm
 
No, but I chewed through a half bottle of Tums one night trying to get my stomach pH and calcium levels up after running out of oxygen... 

Calcium carbonate is nearly as good as sodium carbonate as an antacid and tastes a lot better...  I've found the buffering properties of calcium citrate and citric acid from lemonade last longer...

I was one hurt'en scooter that night after falling asleep following a particularly onerous hit only to wake up two hours later with another equally nasty hit in progress to find the cylinder pressure gauge on zero... 

I'd pulled a Delta Sierra and fallen asleep with the cylinder supply valve open with the regulator set at 25 liters/minute... 

I switched from 8 E-size to three M-size cylinders on hand the following morning and picked up a demand valve later that week.  A demand valve is great in that respect...  no suck... no flow...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2011 at 6:39pm by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #442 - Nov 9th, 2011 at 7:56am
 
Going to say this is not working for my husband.  Seemed it was making them lighter but he is now having the worst ever.
Sad  I SOOOOO wish there were something I could do to help him!  This is horrible!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #443 - Nov 9th, 2011 at 8:30pm
 
I have been doin vit d3 10,000 iu and fishoil for well over a year. I dont really know if it helps or not. I still have headaches but perhaps they would be more frequent and intense if I havent been on the regime. The whole headache thing is so confusing and what works may not work for the next person. That being said there is certainly no damage from this regime and I will continue to do it. It hads helped alot of people on the board just wanted to give my input.
anthony
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #444 - Nov 25th, 2011 at 7:14pm
 
I had an attack today. It came from nowhere manifested itself as a mini-version of a cluster headache attack.  It lasted for less than 15 minutes.  I've had a few of those in the recent months, and I love them.  Not even sure if the correct term is 'shadow'. Whatever - these tiny things of no consequence is what is left of the mighty cluster beast that ravaged my life at will.  I believe it's more than a month since this last reminder, and much more than a month since the last real CH attack.

In fact I'm about to cross the 150 days line. It's almost 5 months since I started eating D-vit, magnesium, fish oil, calcium and zinc every day - the Batch regimen.  So yes, I love my tiny CH-attacks.  They remind me that I am still a CH sufferer, I'm still a chronic, it's not gone. But i can compare the last 5 months with 5 months preceding them. Take 30.jan to 30.jun Many of these ~150 days where true evil.  In two of those days I had more encounters with  You-Know-Who that I've had the last ~150 days. And that's quantity, as for quality: I've had 6 real attacks,. Non of them has justified a Imitrex injection but have been bearable with Red Bull,

I know it is still to early to  conclude, and I've read the remarks from experienced folks about the Beasts ability to morph.

But so far, so good - that is: SO GOOD.  And frankly, right now those insane clusternights seem unreal, like fiction
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #445 - Nov 26th, 2011 at 12:14pm
 
Zeitgeist wrote on Nov 25th, 2011 at 7:14pm:
I had an attack today. It came from nowhere manifested itself as a mini-version of a cluster headache attack.  It lasted for less than 15 minutes.  I've had a few of those in the recent months, and I love them.  Not even sure if the correct term is 'shadow'. Whatever - these tiny things of no consequence is what is left of the mighty cluster beast that ravaged my life at will.  I believe it's more than a month since this last reminder, and much more than a month since the last real CH attack.

In fact I'm about to cross the 150 days line. It's almost 5 months since I started eating D-vit, magnesium, fish oil, calcium and zinc every day - the Batch regimen.  So yes, I love my tiny CH-attacks.  They remind me that I am still a CH sufferer, I'm still a chronic, it's not gone. But i can compare the last 5 months with 5 months preceding them. Take 30.jan to 30.jun Many of these ~150 days where true evil.  In two of those days I had more encounters with  You-Know-Who that I've had the last ~150 days. And that's quantity, as for quality: I've had 6 real attacks,. Non of them has justified a Imitrex injection but have been bearable with Red Bull,

I know it is still to early to  conclude, and I've read the remarks from experienced folks about the Beasts ability to morph.

But so far, so good - that is: SO GOOD.  And frankly, right now those insane clusternights seem unreal, like fiction


I don't know if I should laugh or cry when you call a <15 minute cluster a mini-cluster and you are grateful for them. When I read posts on this board, and I see how bad 'true' cluster headache sufferer's have it, I my heart breaks for you. Nearly all my clusters are about 15 minutes long. The rare ones are 30 minutes long, or longer. When they first started, 5 years ago, they were 30-45 minutes, and sometimes longer. I know this might put me into the SUNCT category, but other characteristics about my clusters define them as clusters. My doc and I struggle to put a clear name on them, and the closest we come to is cluster. But short clusters.

The downside is, abortives don't work because there isn't time for them to take affect. But I digress.

I'm about 2 weeks away from being able to start on Batch's Regimen. I had tried it back in May, but the Vitamin D3 clashed heavily with the Topiramate I'm taking, turning my urine to fire. But in 2 weeks I'll be off Topiramate, and able to try the anti-inflammatory regimen properly.

Batch, or someone, could you post a very clear, concise recipe of what to take? I know the basic ingredients are Vitamin D3 (10,000 IU) Omega3 (3,000-4,000mg) zinc and magnesium. But I've never been clear on how much zinc and magnesium. Also, if it has changed in the year it has been around.

I'm chronic, and get clusters every 2-3 days on average. So if this works, and it seemed to last time I tried it, I'll know pretty quickly. I've had about 220 attacks so far this year.

Thanks,
Renée
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #446 - Nov 26th, 2011 at 12:29pm
 
Hi Renee,

I am on Topamax, but am planning on starting the Batch plan. Do you know if the experience you had with D3 and top is common?

Thanks and good luck to you!

Tate
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #447 - Nov 26th, 2011 at 2:49pm
 
Tate wrote on Nov 26th, 2011 at 12:29pm:
Hi Renee,

I am on Topamax, but am planning on starting the Batch plan. Do you know if the experience you had with D3 and top is common?

Thanks and good luck to you!

Tate



I don't know if it is common, when I mentioned it to my GP, she didn't know why my urine reacted that way. But, when I mentioned it to my neuro, he knew right away. 'Oh yeah, that would be the Topriamate reacting with the D3.'

If I built up the D3 slowly, it wasn't so bad. And even if I jumped up to 10,000IU, after 4 days, the burning would pass. But, if I missed even a single dose, it would take another 4 days to adjust again. And, it didn't burn when I went wee, but afterwards, after I left the toilet for about 5-10 minutes. Was really weird. It helped to use a wet wipe and not just TP.

My problem was, I was under a lot of stress at the time during a tough project, so had a lot going on, and just didn't need that on top of everything else. But now I'm in a better place.

xx
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #448 - Nov 26th, 2011 at 3:27pm
 
Hi Renée

What I meant with "mini cluster" goes for both intensity of pain and time. What I experience is undoubtedly a CH attack, but it is scaled down. 

The Batch regimen consists of two parts

1) D3 and co-factors
  • 5-10.000 IU vitamin D3
  • 500 mg magnesium (must be more if magnesium oxide is used due to very low bio availability)
  • 15-25 mg Zinc


2) Anti-inflammatory and PH regulating
  • 3000 mg Omega 3 fish oil
  • 500 mg Calcium (calcium citrate is what Batch uses)


Of those D3 and magnesium is the most important. If possible, take magnesium i two doses.

Rune

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #449 - Nov 26th, 2011 at 4:56pm
 
Thank you. That is an excellent summary! I can work from that. Didn't know about the calcium, and didn't know the Magnesium was so important.

Right, I have a bit of shopping to do.

My clusters are short, but often ultra intense. In fact, I just had a 30 minute one I would class as a 10 on a scale of 10 (I don't use the KIP scale, but that probably works here). It's now an hour or so later, and I'm still recovering, eyes watering, and a total mess. The same is often true for the ones that last 5, 10 or 15 minutes. They can be really short, but knock me for a 6 and take a couple hours to recover from.

And I can have anywhere from 1-5 in a day, and I think the most I've had in 48 hours is about 12. Although, 1-3 is normal. Well, nothing is 'normal' for the demon. Just last quarter's routine.

Renee
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