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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why (Read 446717 times)
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #900 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:21pm
 
CDog wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:17pm:
My d3 level is now at 105, still having the headaches. Have been on the regimen for at least 9 months...

You gotta be more specific.

Is it being measured in ng/mL or nmol/L?

If it's the latter, you ain't there yet.

If it's the former, I'm not sure what to tell you. Batch has a spiel about comorbid factors that I'm sure he'll be along to explain.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #901 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 4:51pm
 
Hey Fred,

Thanks for the update...  Sounds like you've a great primary care physician...  His response to this regimen is very encouraging... 

Given he favors taking vitamin D3 supplements for his own health at a dose that maintains a healthy level of 25(OH)D...  I'd say he knows more about treating cluster headache patients than he realizes.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #902 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:01pm
 
Found this site just yesterday. After having a couple of others respond to my post I am beginning this regimen and hope to god that I find some relief with it.

This is what I am starting with:
10000IU D3
3000mg Omega-3
Calcium 600mg
Magnesium 250mg
Zinc 50mg
1 complete multi

I hope this works!  Smiley
I will keep posting my results on a daily basis!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #903 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 5:42pm
 
It is 105 ng/mL
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #904 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 6:33pm
 
Chris,

Sorry this regimen hasn't been effective for you...  It's entirely possible it won't for some reason...  There are no absolutes except for death and taxes, and the CH is clearly not an exception when it comes to preventatives. 

From my earlier post today, the efficacy of this regimen as a CH preventative is 88% for episodic CH'ers and 66% for chronic CH'ers.  In going over your posts for the last seven months it appears you're either chronic or about to be so.

Brew brought up a good point on the units of measure used in your 25(OH)D lab results.  However, from your earlier posts and the fact you live here in the US where most diagnostic labs measure 25(OH)D in mass (ng/mL), rather than molarity, (nmol/L), I'll assume your results are in ng/mL.

It also appears you've been taking the cofactors and tried the higher vitamin D3 dosing strategy at 20,000 IU/day to no avail.  I'll also assume you've access to sufficient oxygen to abort your CH.  Have you tried taking some vitamin A?  Being an old foggy, I take a Centrum Silver tablet a day as this multivitamin is also formulated with vitamin A and vitamin K.

All this leads me to a few questions and suggestions.  What's the frequency and severity of your CH?  What's the wake/sleep spit in occurrence? Basically, what is your quality of life with cluster headaches?

For well over five years after I turned chronic, I was content to use oxygen therapy at flow rates that support hyperventilation ~ 40 liters/minute, as my only CH intervention. 

I'd tried all the mainstream preventatives.  I found the risk|reward ratio for these medications unacceptable and the side effects onerous... so I stopped taking them completely.

I accepted the fact that I had CH and as the majority of my aborts with this method of oxygen therapy were under 7 minutes, the quality of life was reasonably good...  until I found vitamin D3 was so effective in preventing my CH.

What keeps me motivated now is trying to figure out why this regimen doesn't work for some CH'ers.  What I've noticed so far is the relationship between a non-response to this regimen and the existence of one or more comorbid medical conditions.  Some of these comorbid conditions may be subclinical or asymptomatic.  In other words, you could have one and not know it's there as you feel fine.

One of the more common comorbid conditions reported by CH'ers who don't respond to this regimen involves a thyroid and or parathyroid insufficiency.  The hormones from these two endocrine organs play essential roles in calcium homeostasis and vitamin D3 metabolism.

Hepatic and renal insufficiencies can also be a problem as vitamin D3 is first metabolized in the liver to 25(OH)D and then in the kidneys to 1,25(OH)2D3.

As your 25(OH)D response to vitamin D3 appears normal, I think it's relatively safe to say your liver appears to be working just fine...

I'm not a doctor so would suggest you see an endocrinologist for a complete workup.  Finding an endocrinologist who will work with you to run down all the possible avenues of interference with vitamin D3 metabolism would be great.

If you find your calcium and parathyroid levels are within the normal reference range, it might be worth pushing your serum concentration 25(OH)D a little higher...

There's a handful of chronic CH'ers who didn't experience a significant favorable response in their cluster headache patterns until they elevated their serum concentration of 25(OH)D up to and above 110 ng/mL.
 
The lower threshold for vitamin D3 intoxication, (indicated by higher than normal calcium levels), is 200 ng/mL, so you've still got a significant safety margin to explore.  From the available RCTs on this topic, it would take a sustained vitamin D3 dose greater than 40,000 IU/day to encounter vitamin D3 intoxication.

Take care, hang in there and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2012 at 6:33pm by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #905 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 6:44pm
 
Hey Adamt,

Welcome to this thread...  and good move starting the anti-inflammatory regimen...  The odds are in your favor you'll respond to this regimen.

Give this regimen a week to make sure you don't have an unfavorable reaction to one or more of the supplements... 

If there's still no joy after a week, I'd bump the vitamin D3 to 20,000 IU/day with a 50,000 IU loading dose once a week.  A growing number of CH'ers have found this dosing strategy results in a CH pain free response a little faster than vitamin D3 at 10,000 IU/day.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #906 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 7:16pm
 
Batch,

  Has anyone found that spending more time in the sun helps speed things up.  Told my wife I need to increase my D3 so I have to spend the weekend hangout at our community pool.  It's a tough treatment but I'll suffer through it Smiley
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #907 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 7:35pm
 
Hey Batch

Once again thanks for the advice. I found a lab that will do the test and have an appointment Wednesday. Also have just changed doctors so have an appointment Thursday with the new one to bring her up to speed with where I am and test her response to this regimen. If its not favourable then step next will be a slightly left of centre practitioner. Still clear, not even the hint of a shadow in the last 4 days, simply wonderful!!!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #908 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 7:46pm
 
Fred,

The short answer is yes...  The cutaneous vitamin D synthesis from solar radiation is the only "free" vitamin...  Spending more time in the summer sun will increase the production of cutaneous vitamin D3.

That said...  it needs to be quality time near mid day (10 AM - 2 PM) during the summer months clad in a bathing suit without any sun block.

10 minutes a side should be sufficient to generate the equivalent of 15,000 to 20,000 IU of cutaneous vitamin D3.  Any more time than that and the risk of skin cancer starts going up...

The other rule of thumb is if you get a sun burn in 20 minutes, don't stay exposed for more than 10 minutes a side if reclined.

I lived in Northern VA not far from Alexandria in Lake Ridge...  I also used to frequent some of the watering holes near the Torpedo Factory and found the cuisine at Le Gaulois better than average...

That said, there's not enough high angle sun at that latitude for five to six months of the year...

Skin type also plays a role...  See the following link at the Vitamin D Council for a more detailed explanation...

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Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #909 - Jul 27th, 2012 at 7:52pm
 
Hey Wayne,

Thanks for the update and glad you found a diagnostic lab nearby.  Here's hoping the new doc is a player... or at least open to the benefits of this regimen.

It is a wonderful feeling being free of CH pain...  and knowing how to keep it that way...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #910 - Jul 28th, 2012 at 3:16pm
 
Day #2

I had an evening of uninterrupted sleep?!?!

I was not awaken by not one single cluster last night. I did have a small attack this morning but the duration of the cluster was only for like 5 minutes and the intensity was not severe at all.

My head feels completely different, normally I have a twinge constantly reminding me that the cluster is lurking but that twinge is gone.

Could this really be the miracle that I was praying for? It makes me wonder if my cycle was almost at it's end but from what I am reading in this thread it can not be just coincidence.

Batch, thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing this information. I can not wait to go to the Doctors this coming Tuesday to tell them about this. I am hoping that this will allow me to get off the Imitrex and blood pressure meds... they make me feel yucky!

I can not express to every one the difference between Today and just two days ago!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #911 - Jul 28th, 2012 at 4:49pm
 
Adamt wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 3:16pm:
Day #2

I had an evening of uninterrupted sleep?!?!

I was not awaken by not one single cluster last night. I did have a small attack this morning but the duration of the cluster was only for like 5 minutes and the intensity was not severe at all.

My head feels completely different, normally I have a twinge constantly reminding me that the cluster is lurking but that twinge is gone.

Could this really be the miracle that I was praying for? It makes me wonder if my cycle was almost at it's end but from what I am reading in this thread it can not be just coincidence.

Batch, thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing this information. I can not wait to go to the Doctors this coming Tuesday to tell them about this. I am hoping that this will allow me to get off the Imitrex and blood pressure meds... they make me feel yucky!

I can not express to every one the difference between Today and just two days ago! 

Pretty f'n cool, no?

I eventually busted my last cycle away (after some intense misery), and I had just started the D3 regimen. Now I won't go a day without it. Been pain free ever since.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #912 - Jul 28th, 2012 at 6:48pm
 
Batch, Another very bad night last night.  I broke down this morning and started the Methylprednisolone my neurologist prescribed.  I had been holding on to it and didn't want to go down that road but things have gotten very bad.  Thank god I got a script for imitrex epipens and got it filled yesterday afternoon or I would have ended up in the ER.  Anyway, I'm sticking to the D3 regime but when the cycle ends I won't know if it's the D3 or the Methylprednisolone.   Wish I could have been able to isolate the D3 to help you with your study.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #913 - Jul 28th, 2012 at 9:47pm
 
Adamt,

The short answer is yes...  It's entirely possible you've responded to the anti-inflammatory regimen this fast.

As you will see from the preliminary extract from the Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Survey shown below, you appear to be among the 11% who respond to this regimen within 48 hours after start of regimen with a significant decrease in the frequency and severity of your cluster headaches.

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As Brew said in as many words, it's a wonderful feeling...  Make sure you ask for the lab test for 25(OH)D when you see your doctor.  The results of this test will add credible medical evidence to the causal relationship between a cessation of cluster headaches and serum concentrations of 25(OH)D elevated into the 60 to 110 ng/mL range.

We need more of the CH'ers who have started this regimen and stuck with it for at least a month or more to take this survey.  Only 60 have taken this survey so far and of them, only 45 have completed it.

I figure there are at least another 100 CH'ers out there who should be able to take this survey.  We need their input. 

I need at least 100 completed surveys to have a statistically significant sample size that will convince the editors of the major headache publications, an article about this CH preventative is worth the time, effort and professional credibility to publish.

Brew, thanks for the words of encouragement.  It's comments like yours and Adamnt's that give the CH'ers who haven't tried this regimen, enough energy to burn through the medication and/or pain induced haze, to see the potential benefits of starting this regimen.

Fred,

Don't worry about taking a bailout preventative or abortive...  You're not letting me down or hurting the study... None of us are superman...  I found that oxygen therapy at flow rates that support hyperventilation ~ 40 liters/minute, resulted in CH aborts almost as fast as sumatriptan succinate SC injections...  No side effects either...

Do what you need to do to stop and prevent the pain.  As long as you stick with this regimen, the odds are on your side that you'll experience a favorable response. 

Moreover, using an unweighted response time for this regimen, the average time to respond is 12 to 13 days so you've still got a bit to go...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2012 at 8:34pm by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #914 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 9:58am
 
Day #3

I had an another amazing night of sleep! Not one single cluster attack. Not even a shadow!

At this point I went from complete misery with atleast 6 attacks daily ranging from 6 -8 on the kip scale just three days ago to now fully aborting my cycle. How do I know my cycle is aborted? Because my head feels completely different just as it did when I was in remission.

I hate my Doctor prescribed meds so... when I started to take Batch's recommended regimen I also stopped taking the prescribed meds to make sure that if this D3 regimen worked it was purely because of the D3 regimen, I wanted to be sure. I know Tuesday when I go to my Doctors visit I am sure she won't be happy with me taking myself off of the meds but ultimately it's my body and my decision.

I feel great! Normally, when going through my cycles I do not go far from my bedroom because my bed is the most comfortable place for me to battle the beast. Today, I got up and made a pot of coffee, took a shower and for the first time in a month since the cycle started was able to take my 4 mile run!

I am completely sold on this regimen, and I recommend every cluster sufferer to try it. I have suffered from episodic and chronic CH for the last 28 years of my life, nothing has ever brought me relief as quickly and safely as this has. This thread is a life saver!  Smiley
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #915 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 10:18am
 
Quick question Batch?

Any idea if this regimen has been getting any type of success with migraine sufferers?

I have a friend who suffers dearly with migraines, would love to mention it to him but am afraid that it might not have the same effect for him as it has for me?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #916 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 1:29pm
 
Adamt,

Thanks for the wonderful update...  That said, I'm confident the odds are high your doctor will get his or her knickers in a wad and place me on some kind of shit list when you say you came off the Rx med's for CH without first consulting with him or her.

I'm not worried about me...  but I do want you to be able to ask for the lab test for 25(OH)D without running into a hornet's nest response.  Perhaps you can ask for the 25(OH)D lab test first and have the script in hand before you say you stopped all the other CH med's.

In the long run it's better for all of us if we can coax and cajole the PCPs and neurologists who treat us into thinking outside the box on the apparent causal relationship between a cessation of CH and a serum concentration of 25(OH)D elevated into a range of 60 to 110 ng/mL.

The sooner they find this method of preventing CH is effective, the sooner they'll have another arrow in their quiver to treat the next nubie who presents with CH.

In regard to telling your friend with migraines about this regimen...  Go for it... but please tell him to ask his PCP or neurologist for the 25(OH)D lab test. 

The sample size of migraineurs I'm tracking who are taking this regimen is small, but the efficacy is 100%.  So far every migraineur who has started this regimen has stopped having migraines.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2012 at 1:31pm by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #917 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 3:26pm
 
Hello everyone....I've been reading thru a ton of this thread...and am very excited to try this Vit D3 and Omega 3.  Batch, I have also been conversing with some fellow CH'ers on Facebook about your regimine idea.  THANK you so much for all of this work you have done!!  Now...another question.  I have pulled my physical results from my last physical.  I'm trying to determine if my blood serum is listed.  There are several serum's listed but i don't know which one is the one you are referring to in your posts.  Here are what is listed (maybe none are the correct one):  Glucose, serum; Creatinine, Serum; Sodium, Serum; Postassium, serum; Chloride, Serum; Protein, total, serum; Albumin, Serum; Globulin, Total; .......are any of these the one you refer to in your posts? 
Again thanks so much; can't wait to try this!!
Darrell
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #918 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 7:25pm
 
Darrell - Nope. You need to be specifically tested for 25(OH)D.

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #919 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 7:39pm
 
Thanks Drew!  And one more stupid question...sorry to keep asking so much.  I went to buy the Omega 3 and the highest dosage I find is 360 Mg of Omega 3 in the fish oil.  So is it 3000 mg of Fish oil or specifically 3000 mg of Omega 3?  I bought 1000 Mg (with 300 mg omega 3)...so I would take 3 softgels each morning right?
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #920 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 8:08pm
 
Hey Darrell,

Good question.  The lab results you've listed sound like they're coming from a Basic Metabolic Panel (CHEM-8).  If you look at the printout of your lab results they should appear under a banner (panel) grouping titled Chemistry Panel and or CBC.

The lab test for serum vitamin D3, (cholecalciferol), is a bit of a canard or half-duck, as it's not really a vitamin and not yet a hormone...  That said most medical diagnostic labs list the test for vitamin D3/25(OH)D in their endocrine/hormone panel.  Ask your PCP or neurologist for this lab test at the next opportunity.

What's actually measured or assayed is the serum concentration of a vitamin D3 metabolite, 25-Hydroxyvitamin (D2+D3), a.k.a. 25(OH)D or calcidiol.

Most US medical diagnostic labs will list the normal reference range for 25(OH)D as 30 to 100 ng/mL.  Less than 30 ng/mL (75 nmol/L) is considered insufficient/deficient...  A 25(OH)D serum concentration greater than 100 ng/mL, (250 nmol/L) is considered excessive...  and unexplored... 

It's kind of like the early nautical charts used and created by explorers in the 1400s...  The margins were frequently annotated with "Beyond here there be dragons... "

There are several studies that have concluded it would take a 25(OH)D serum concentration greater than 200 ng/mL, (500 nmol/L) to reach the lower threshold of vitamin D3 toxicity... 

This is where the serum calcium and PTH (parathyroid hormone) lab tests would come into play as vitamin D3 intoxication would be clinically indicated by a serum calcium concentration above the normal reference range.  PTH would also be at the low end of its reference range or below...

What we need as cluster headache sufferers, in order to remain pain free, is a 25(OH)D serum concentration of 60 to 110 ng/mL.  From the empirical data I've collected to date, at least 80% of us on the anti-inflammatory regimen will be CH pain free in this range. 

That said, I've a couple chronic CH'ers with intermittent CH attacks, pushing the outer limits of the anti-inflammatory regimen with vitamin D3 intakes of ≥25,000 IU/day and significantly higher concentrations of 25(OH)D...  One at 130 ng/mL, (325 nmol/L) and the other at 160 ng/mL, (400 nmol/L). 

Both are doing this under close medical supervision with labs every two weeks.

At this point neither of them has had any indications of vitamin D3 intoxication... Nonetheless, their endocrinologists are running around with their radars in high PRF mode and sonars actively pinging like nervous Nellies...  So far... No dragons...

Take care and please keep us posted,

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2012 at 8:23pm by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #921 - Jul 29th, 2012 at 10:49pm
 
Batch, I can't thank you enough already for all the work you are doing!!  Thanks for the information....I will call my doc tomorrow and ask about the lab test.  The lab results I have are from a Comp Metabolic Panel (14). 
BTW..did you see my last question about the fish oil vs omega 3?  A little bit confused on that.  So ready to try this out starting tomorrow!  Had a KIP5 headache today and some pings tonight...so ready to stop this mess.  Smiley
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #922 - Jul 30th, 2012 at 2:24am
 
Darrell,

Good move on getting the lab test for 25(OH)D... 

What you're looking for in the Omega 3 Fish Oil is the available EPA (Eicosapentaenoic Acid) and DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) per serving size.  These are the two fatty acids that have the best anti-inflammatory properties... They also help lower total cholesterol...

Any serving size of Omega 3 Fish Oil, usually two liquid softgel capsules, should contain at least 360 mg EPA and 240 mg DHA per serving.  After that, calculate the cost per serving at these EPA and DHA values for the best bang for the buck.

I've done that and the Nature Made™ Omega 3 Fish Oil has the best bang for the buck at Costco.  Otherwise take a calculator with you when you go shopping...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2012 at 2:26am by Batch »  

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #923 - Jul 30th, 2012 at 3:48am
 
Hello Batch n Co

Just checking in to update. I cut out the Egotomine from Saturday night, all good so far. That makes it 12 days PF Smiley
I am so thankful that you had the tenacity to continue this research Batch, I think that this will change many lives.
Take care
Wayne
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Gender: male
Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #924 - Jul 30th, 2012 at 3:55am
 
Adamt wrote on Jul 29th, 2012 at 10:18am:
Any idea if this regimen has been getting any type of success with migraine sufferers?


Whilst I've not had a CH since January and only 10 in the last year, vitamin D hasn't impacted my migraines, yet...

However what has made a massive difference to them is skipping anything with caffeine or chocolate plus propranolol.

Sorry to break the 100% migraine record Batch.
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