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justsammer

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #250 - Oct 14^th, 2014 at 4:02pm

hi Batch,
i started the regimen about two weeks ago. i'm seeing some improvement. couple of questions for you if you don't mind... you mention that a 2:1 ratio for calcium to magnesium is recommended, however on your chart it shows something a bit different. can you advise as to how much calcium citrate and how much magnesium i should be taking daily?
also, i have not been able to find the K2 at an affordable price. is the k2 crucial? what are potential effects on not taking the k2 for a while? thanks

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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #251 - Oct 14^th, 2014 at 6:43pm

Hey Justsammer,

Great questions. I take the Kirkland brand (Costco's) Mature Multi. It has 220 mg of calcium and 50 mg magnesium. I also take a 400 mg capsule of Nature Made magnesium (liquid soft gel).

The table illustrating the latest supplements and doses to be taken as the anti-inflammatory regimen shows 220 to 500 mg/day calcium and 400 to 500 mg/day magnesium.

My rationale for taking the lower dose of calcium (220 mg/day) and 450 mg/day magnesium follows:

I'm a cheese head (I eat lots of cheese) and consume a diet high in calcium so 220 mg/day supplemental calcium is sufficient for me and likely has me near a 1000 mg/day calcium intake from all sources.

That puts me close to the 2 to 1 calcium to magnesium ratio.

Of the two mineral supplements, magnesium is the most important as it's an essential vitamin D3 cofactor. It supports the enzymatic processes that metabolize vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D3 in the liver and that also metabolize 25(OH)D to 1,25(OH)2D3 at the cellular and nuclear level throughout the body... including the trigeminal nerve cells...

Regarding the vitamin K2... It isn't essential in preventing CH... That said, it is a vitamin A&D cofactor... In addition, due to the increased calcium kinetics made possible by the vitamin D3 doses we take... it's prudent to take vitamin K2 as it directs calcium away from soft tissues and arteries towards building bone mineral density...

For CH'ers not on blood thinners, I suggest the Super K with advanced K2 complex from the Life Extension Foundation (LEF). It's formulated with vitamin K1, the clotting vitamin, and the vitamin K2 complex (MK-4 and MK-7).

You can buy Super K directly from LEF, from Amazon or a lot of other Internet outlets. Either way at ~ 20 cents a tablet less shipping, it's pricey compared to the other supplements in this regimen.

For CH'ers taking blood thinners prescribed by their PCP or cardiologist... (warfarin=rat poison Shocked

)... you'll need to take only vitamin K2 (MK-7)... The best deals are from NOW... Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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The vitamin K2 (MK-7) will run 15 to 16 cents a tablet less shipping.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Fitzer

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #252 - Oct 15^th, 2014 at 6:56pm

Hi all. Thought I would give you a quick update. If you look back in this thread, you will see that I was doing well on this regimen until my headaches came back with a vengeance a few weeks ago. I originally blamed it on a new digestive supplement I was taking. But after going back and forth with Batch via e-mail, we agreed that it was actually likely due to insufficient calcium in my diet. When I increased my dairy/calcium intake, my headaches started getting progressively better again.

This past weekend, I was starting to feel great. Only was having a couple mild hits a day. Then my luck went south. I started getting sick on sunday and ended up with what I believe was a 24 hour stomach bug. Well, my headaches have now returned to the usual frequency/intensity, likely due to the stomach bug depleting my d levels I think.

So frustrated right now. This is the second time I've started experiencing a significant positive response, only to get sick and have my d levels crash. Well, I've been taking an aggressive dose of 50,000 IU a day for a while now (talked about this with Batch) because it seems that I just don't absorb the D as well as others. I'm considering upping the magnesium (currently at 600 mg) as I know its vital for d3 absorption. Also, I've been trying popping some of the D gel caps in my mouth and keeping the contents in there for a while, in hopes that it might be absorbed into my bloodstream better that way. I noticed that Batch had recommended this method to a few others using this regimen so I'm giving it a shot now. I'm angry and depressed to be honest but I'm still optimistic that this regimen will work eventually. I think it's just going to take more trial and error. Getting my levels tested later this week.

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TeeJ2379

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #253 - Oct 17^th, 2014 at 1:59pm

Hi all,

Just a quick update - I've been on this regiment for over a year - and I've had few if any relapses - My D3 blood work comes back in the 90 ng/ml level every few months - most recently it dipped to 72 as I had just had a nasty sinus infection that felt like a cluster at first! Other then that my health has been really good, even may have lost a few pounds. If you are just starting on this regiment - be patient, get your blood work done if possible - that will let you know where you are starting from , then do one every month until you are in the green zone. That is the only true measure of if you are where you need to be. I had about a three month period where my hits were less, but I still had pain, but once i hit the 85 ng/ml level i really felt much better.

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birdman

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #254 - Oct 20^th, 2014 at 4:36pm

Update...upped the dosage to 40000iu but still getting hit on the new side. They had minimalized to 20-30 minutes of around kip4-5 until the last two days were it has returned to full blown 60 minute kip 8-9. O2 keeps it somewhat manageable so I can avoid the trex most of the time. The nuero wants to add the extended release version of toprimate. Just what I need, another damn drug that doesn't work

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birdman CH.com Old Timer Offline Will try anything once! Posts: 426 x0\|staten island\|USA\|\|0\|0\|NY,New_York Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #255 - Oct 20^th, 2014 at 7:42pm As I backtracked, I realized my dinner Saturday night probably was the culprit for the upkick in kip strength. Anyone have any opinion on how long it takes to rid the body of preservatives etc?
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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #256 - Oct 20^th, 2014 at 11:14pm

Hey Birdman,

I've not seen any correlation between preservatives and CH... but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I suspect another comorbid condition, we've miss something you need to be taking or both are responsible for the continued CH... What brand of vitamin D3 are you taking?

If you've not already done so, lab tests for serum 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH are in order... In the mean time drop back to a vitamin D3 maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day and cut the calcium for a week, but stay on the magnesium.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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birdman CH.com Old Timer Offline Will try anything once! Posts: 426 x0\|staten island\|USA\|\|0\|0\|NY,New_York Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #257 - Oct 22^nd, 2014 at 6:54am Thanks Batch. Bloodwork before cutting back I assume?
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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3708 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #258 - Oct 22^nd, 2014 at 10:30am Birdman, Dealer's choice.... Just don't wait too long. Take care, V/R, Batch
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birdman CH.com Old Timer Offline Will try anything once! Posts: 426 x0\|staten island\|USA\|\|0\|0\|NY,New_York Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #259 - Oct 22^nd, 2014 at 9:15pm Thanks. And love the use of "dealers choice". Well played
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Break_the_Cycle

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #260 - Oct 26^th, 2014 at 6:32pm

Hi Batch,

It's been awhile since I've posted. My first/last post was on Dec. 17, 2012 to let you know our progress in your original thread.

It's been almost 2 years and my wife(then girlfriend) has been PF as the regimen prevented CH from even happening back then. She took the regimen for about 2 months, stopped, and has been PF for roughly 22 months until 3 nights ago. No shadows to warn her this time. On Tuesday, Oct. 21, she was administered an IUD birth control. Two nights later she had her first cluster in almost 4 years(as the regimen prevented the previous cycle). Is the birth control a coincidence or did it trigger a cycle? Who knows...but maybe someone does.

My question to you is this: I noticed that you even have a scaled down version of this regimen for your grand niece, so is it safe to say that my 7 1/2 week old son would be ok being fed breast milk while my wife is on the regimen? I realize this may be an odd question but it's one I didn't see an answer to when I searched the forum. I understand that it's something we'd want to talk to our pediatrician about...but I am interested in what your opinion is on this. We would assume a PCP or pediatrician would say "no" to this just because they don't know jack about the regimen.

As always, thanks for your help.

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« Last Edit: Oct 26^th, 2014 at 7:19pm by Break_the_Cycle »

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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #261 - Oct 27^th, 2014 at 10:05am

Break_the_Cycle,

Thanks for the update and questions.

My daughter is still taking the anti-inflammatory regimen with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and breast feeding. Her OB and pediatrician are both very comfortable with this regimen.

The key to keeping them comfortable was a couple lab tests for 25(OH)D. If your wife is shooting for a 25(OH)D serum concentration between 70 and 80 ng/mL to control her CH, a vitamin D3 dose of 10,000 IU/day should work nicely.

That said, she needs to keep her OB and pediatrician in the loop on this regimen and with her 25(OH)D lab test results. Check out the latest updates to this regimen at the following link:

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Vitamin K2 is an important addition for all of us and in particular, mothers who are breast feeding... See the following link:

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Shoot me a PM if your wife gets any push back on the anti-inflammatory regimen with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3...

On a related note... My son in law showed me a video clip of my three and a half month old granddaughter, Fred (Winnifred), on his iPhone. It was clear to me she was trying to talk... but then I'm a doting old grandfather...

Regarding the return of your wife's CH after insertion of an IUD... It's quite possible the relationship is causal and not just a coincidence. There have been a number of studies that confirmed a measurable immune response is frequently associated with IUDs and that it's this response that's part of mechanism of action of IUDs in preventing pregnancies.

We've already found that an immune response from any source can consume available 25(OH)D leaving too little to prevent CH...

Hope this helps connect the dots.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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E-Double CH.com Alumnus Offline Are we ourselves? Posts: 6948 Commack,New_York Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #262 - Nov 8^th, 2014 at 8:20pm Well done Pete!!!
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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #263 - Nov 15^th, 2014 at 12:02pm

Hey Eric,

Thanks. The survey is still running and collecting data for all of us. There are still quite a few who didn't finish and submit. In checking, most were episodic so that's understandable.

If there are any CH'ers, who don't recall completing this survey and clicking the submit button, you can still enter your survey and complete same.

CH'ers new to this regimen, who have been on it for at least 30 days, are welcome to take it.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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birdman

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #264 - Dec 10^th, 2014 at 1:27pm

Long story short....ended up with full blown second cycle on opposite side almost immediately following shortened cycle. Ended up on Trokendi XR (topomax with a lot less side effects??) which helped immensely. Appears to have messed up my acidity though, tingling of feet and hands. Maybe acidity was already messed up and that is why D3 was not helping. Being the lazy slob that I am, I know Batch knows acidity and figured I would reach out for advice. Thanks in advance for any input!! Have been pain free neuro speaking but still on the Trokendi.

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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #265 - Dec 10^th, 2014 at 3:24pm

Hey Birdman,

Sorry you were having problems with the anti-inflammatory regimen and turned to Trokendi XR for relief...

Did you get the lab test for your 25(OH)D? If so, what was your serum concentration of this vitamin D3 metabolite?

You're correct, one of the trokendi XR side effects is metabolic acidosis... Trokendi lowers serum bicarbonate and the enzymes needed to maintain it. See the following link for details:

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Other than switching to another CH preventative or stopping trokendi and going back on the anti-inflammatory regimen, the best I can offer is for you to discuss a baking soda tonic with your PCP or neurologist as a counter for the metabolic acidosis.

The baking soda tonic (the directions are on the Arm & Hammer baking soda box) is just a temporary solution, so you'll need to try an alkalizing diet to elevate your systemic pH.

Hope this helps...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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sue_g

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #266 - Dec 10^th, 2014 at 7:25pm

Hey Batch and all, Hope all is well, me... still pf and counting, thanks to you Batch Smiley

. I'm in my 14th month with the regimen.
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Well, I've got a few questions for you.

For the last 9mths or so, I've experienced muscle aches. It started in my left elbow and was quite intense to the point where I was having a hard time picking up anything that required any strength. I blamed it on tennis elbow, but didn't have any reason for it. Over time the ache has reduced with some care, however now I am and have experiencing muscle aches that stretch along my shoulders up into my neck. I've never known this kind of achyness. I'm just curious if anyone else has this phantom ache.

I've been taking:
6000 IU D3
2000mg Fish Oil (360 EPA/240 DHA
300mg Magnesium Bisglycinate (w/60mg taurine)
480mcg K2
Multi Vit that covers the following:
Vit A 2500IU
B6 30mg
B12 100mcg
Calicum 200mg
Zinc 10mg & additional D3 of400IU
and etc (other vits/minerals)

I wish I could insert my graph results, but I don't know how.. lol
My 25(OH)D results in nmol/L are as follows:
Sep/13 86
Oct/13 170
Nov/13 373
Dec/13 155
Jan/14 178
Mar/14 184
Jun/14 182
Sep/14 216
Oct/14 149
Last PTH Sept 2014 = 3.9 pmol/L

Spoke with my GP today, she thinks I'm crazy taking 480 mcgs of K2. She also is not even suggesting anything for the phantom aches. Perhaps I should steer away from the multi vit, take Vit A/zinc & B12 separately.

Please any suggestions are welcome. Other than that... I can't complain! Thanks for all your continued support!

Sue

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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #267 - Dec 10^th, 2014 at 9:28pm

Hey Sue,

All is well here in the heart of Puget Sound area of Washington state... A little wet at the moment... but it's 50º F at 6 PM and it looks like at least three days ahead without rain...

Thank you for the detailed feedback and lab history... It's fascinating how our 25(OH)D serum concentration fluctuates at the same dose of vitmain D3. I suspect this is the result of our immune system doing its thing to keep us healthy by sucking up 25(OH)D when it needs it to combat the bugs and virus that constantly hit us.

Regarding the muscle aches and cramps... double the magnesium. Your calcium-magnesium ratio appears to be a little out of balance. I have this same problem if I don't take enough magnesium.

Calcium is needed during muscle contraction and magnesium during muscle relaxation. Vitamin D3 at the doses we take consumes magnesium making muscle cramps very common if we're not taking sufficient magnesium.

Regarding the joint pain... I don't have a good answer why this is happening. I suspect it's due to the higher serum concentrations of calcium, within the normal reference range, as a result of the vitamin D3 doses we're taking... The extra serum calcium may be accumulating in the joints... but I've no medical proof or evidence.

I've had the same problem with a sharp joint pain in my wrists. I cut the supplemental calcium for nearly a month and started taking Glucosamine &‎ Chondroitin. The joint pain went away in less than a week. Not sure if this will work for you... but it's sure worth a try.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #268 - Dec 13^th, 2014 at 4:44pm I can remember visiting many a chiropractor over the years, but I still had CH's and empty pockets, maybe its the vitamins he gave you or you had neck problems that are known to give headaches that mimic CH's. Hoppy.
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Batch CH.com Alumnus Offline Control The Beast With O2 & D3 You Must Posts: 3708 Bremerton, WA Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #269 - Dec 13^th, 2014 at 6:39pm Hey Danallan, You've got my curiosity up... What's in your list of supplements and how much is vitamin D3? I like your analogy too! Take care and thanks again for the post. V/R, Batch
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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #270 - Dec 15^th, 2014 at 3:48pm

Hey Danallan,

Thank you for the response. I wanted to see what nutrient supplements you were taking to remain CH pain free... I also don't think you're spamming for Dr. Tent. Is he a DO/Osteopath?

For starters, a 25(OH)D serum concentration of 103 ng/mL is a little high but not necessarily an indication of vitamin D3 toxicity... or overdose. A diagnosis of vitamin D3 toxicity requires labs for serum calcium and PTH.

There are few CH'ers and many more people suffering from Remitting-Recurring Multiple Sclerosis taking enough vitamin D3 to maintain their 25(OH)D serum concentrations as high as 140 ng/mL... living perfectly normal lives with no indications of vitamin D3 toxicity.

The regimen you're taking includes most of the same essential nutrients we take in the anti-inflammatory regimen. The anti-inflammatory regimen supplements and doses are shown in the table below:

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If you'll look at the supplement fact labels on the back of the bottles you buy from Dr. Tent, I'm confident you'll find the same supplements.

Translating this list of supplements to off-the-shelf nutrients yields the following illustrated by brand in the photo below:

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With the exception of the Super K, I buy all the above supplements at Costco for roughly 35 cents a day... I buy the Super K over the Internet from Amazon for 20 cents a day including shipping.

Overall that works out to an annual anti-inflammatory regimen cost of around $200.

Thanks again for the reply.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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nancyk CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 9	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #271 - Dec 27^th, 2014 at 7:21pm Can someone please list the doses for the fish oil and magnesium? I'm taking the 10,000 iu of D3, but wasn't sure about the other doses.
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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #272 - Dec 27^th, 2014 at 8:21pm 1200mg-2400mg Fish Oil /day 400mg-500mg Magnesium /day Good Luck Hoppy
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Batch

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey
Reply #273 - Dec 27^th, 2014 at 8:28pm

Nancy,

Good question... Take two (2) of the Nature's Bounty 5000 IU vitamin D3 liquid gel caps, Two (2) of Nature Made Omega-3 Fish Oil liquid gel caps, one (1) of the Nature Made magnesium liquid gel caps, one (1) of the Mature Multi tablets and one (1) capsule of the Super K with Advanced K2 Complex.

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Regarding the magnesium... A few months back, I switched from the 400 mg Nature Made magnesium (oxide) to taking two of the 250 mg Kirkland brand magnesium citrate gel caps (total of 500 mg). Rationale... more magnesium at a lower cost. It SWERKIN just fine...

I switched to Kirkland Mature Multi as it has a better formulation of the other vitamin D3 cofactors at a lower cost.

If you can't get to Costco, the following table lists the individual supplements and doses.

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Again if you can't get the Kirkland Mature Multi, try to find a "mature" "senior" or 50+ vitamin & mineral combo like Centrum Silver Plus. With the exception of the magnesium (usually only 60 mg) and vitamin K2, these senior vitamin & mineral capsules contain most of the vitamin D3 cofactors at the right dose... Read the Supplement Facts label on the back of the bottle to make sure.

Don't forget the vitamin B 50. It's not shown in the photo above. Take one of these tablets a day for three months... That should take care of any deficiencies among the seven B vitamins. After that, there's plenty of the B vitamins in the mature multi to prevent any further deficiencies.

My other rationale for selecting the above brand name supplements is because they all carry the USP logo or wording on the label indicating they've been tested by an independent lab for purity and strength...

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There are a lot of knock-off/fake supplements coming from China that I wouldn't feed to a dog... Too many dogs have already died from dog food containing Chinese fake protein...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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« Last Edit: Dec 27^th, 2014 at 8:48pm by Batch »

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Hoppy CH.com Alumnus Offline LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE Posts: 1890 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Anti-Inflammatory Regimen Update and Survey Reply #274 - Dec 27^th, 2014 at 8:38pm I get my Kirkland Mature Multi 400 tablets online from Biovea. Hoppy.
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