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Topic: 5-HT activity in Kudzu (Read 32590 times) |
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Redd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #25 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 10:21am » |
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Planetary Formulas Kudzu Recovery features the roots and flowers of kudzu (Pueraria lobata), which have long been used in Chinese herbalism to help lessen the desire for alcohol. Researchers have identified two constituents in kudzu responsible for this activity, daidzein and daidizin, which in animal research have been found to cause a similar effect. These are combined with coptis, a primary cleansing and liver-supporting herb from Chinese herbalism, and other key botanicals to support botanicals historically used to reduce cravings.
Lifestyle Recommendations: To decrease cravings, maintain adequate caloric intake by eating regularly scheduled meals, avoid simple sugar, and supplement with GTF chromium and B-complex vitamin. Avoid excess stress, exercise regularly, and promote a calm mental state of well-being.
Suggested Use: Two tablets, three times daily between meals, or as recommended by your health care professional. Store in a cool dry place.
Warnings: Not for use during pregnancy. Do not use if either tamper-evident seal is broken or missing. Keep out of the reach of children.
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 2 Tablets
Serving per container: 60
Amount Per Serving
Proprietary Blend: 1.5 g +
Kudzu root, Kudzu flower, Hovenia fruit, Copits root, Poria
Cocos sclerotium, Grifola sclerotium, Atractylodes root,
Codonopsis root, Saussurearoot, Shen Qu-Massa Fermentata extract,
Green Citrus peel, Cardamom fruit and Ginger root.
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+ Daily Values Not Established.
Other Ingredients: sorbitol, stearic acid, colloidal silicon dioxide, modified cellulose gum and magnesium stearate. "
Expiration Date: Approx. 3 years from date of purchase.
This part is interesting as well....
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PaulL
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #26 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 11:43am » |
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Can anyone who understands the posted scientific articles about Kudzu guess on the safety of this for those of us who can't take Imitrex because of a heart condition?
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #27 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 11:57am » |
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I can't take triptans, Paul. I haven't experienced any of those uncomfortable feelings I got when I tried treating CH with Imitrex. My dr now refuses to let me have any triptans, so I haven't used any in about 2years.
Interesting note on the magnesium, Pegg. I'm taking the mineral compound for the magnesium and lithium.
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PaulL
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #28 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 12:13pm » |
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Excellent! Off to the health food store to find some of this stuff 
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #29 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 12:21pm » |
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on Feb 10th, 2005, 11:43am, PaulL wrote:| Can anyone who understands the posted scientific articles about Kudzu guess on the safety of this for those of us who can't take Imitrex because of a heart condition? |
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Kudzu is used for high-blood pressure and angina; it seems to have a beneficial effect on these conditions. The isoflavones in kudzu are similiar to those in soy, and those have demonstrated some beneficial effects on the heart. The isoflavones are called 'phytoestrogens' although they are much much weaker than normal estrogen; from what we know, they protect bone (like estrogen), but they inhibit breast and endometrial cancer (unlike estrogen) - so there is little dangers that men become effeminate from eating soy or kudzu. These compounds seem to be beneficial for other cardio conditions (metabolic syndrome, cholesterol control, etc):
Quote:J Natl Med Assoc. 2004 Aug;96( :1032-41.
Metabolic syndrome: soybean foods and serum lipids.
Merritt JC.
Metabolic syndrome is a cluster of coronary heart disease (CHD) risk factors of which central obesity, insulin resistance, increased triglycerides/decreased HDL cholesterol, and hypertension are major cardiovascular risk factors. The educational objectives of this review are to describe hypocholesteromic effects from soybean foods. Early Italian observations indicated that isolated soy protein lowered total cholesterol, especially the LDL component, in humans with elevated serum lipids. Whole soybeans, with their major phytoestrogen inflavones (genistein, daidzein, and glycetin) intact, are known to decrease both total and LDL cholesterol. Major early reviews, meta-analyses, and clinical trials in hyperlipidemic humans indicate a predictable range of decreases in serum lipids: total cholesterol (10-19%), LDL cholesterol (14-20%), and triglycerides (8-14%). Recent, large, randomized trials in postmenopausal women indicated that a soy protein component induces significant increases in HDL cholesterol. Therapy for metabolic syndrome must first be patient education, especially for predominant U.S. minority groups (Afro-, Latino-, and Native Americans). The four major preventive health educational facts necessary to reduce CHD/metabolic syndrome must now recognize that whole soybeans are abundant sources of: 1) vegetable protein, 2) high soluble fiber content, 3) virtual absence of saturated fat, though high in polyunsaturated fats, and 4) major phytoestrogens. |
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Quote:J Obstet Gynaecol. 1999;19(5):455-9.
The value of phytoestrogens as a possible therapeutic option in postmenopausal women with coronary heart disease.
Finking Beate Hess H Hanke G.
Large epidemiological studies have proved that the risk of coronary heart disease in postmenopausal women can be decreased by oestrogen replacement therapy. The effect is triggered by metabolic processes in the liver (decrease of LDL-cholesterol, increase of HDL-cholesterol) as well as by direct impact on the arterial wall (anti-oxidation, relaxation, anti-proliferation). The therapeutical usage of oestrogens is limited by an increased incidence of breast and endometrial cancer. Cyclic application of progestogens virtually eliminates the risk. Unfortunately, progestogens may antagonise the atheroprotective effect of oestrogens. Structurally modified oestrogens as well as selective oestrogen receptor modulators were investigated in clinical trials. They might provide the desired atheroprotective effects of oestrogen without negative side effects on the mammary gland or the endometrium. In this respect isoflavones also known as phytoestrogens, were analysed. They are widespread and occur naturally in many plants, especially in soy products. Cell culture and animal experiments as well as clinical studies revealed that phytoestrogens such as genistein and daidzein act atheroprotectively in the same way as oestrogen. Effects on the mammary gland or the endometrium could not be detected, but positive side effects on the bone metabolism and the decrease of certain types of cancer could be observed. In total, the therapeutical application of phytoestrogens in postmenopausal women seems to be of real and great benefit. We conclude that in women the risk of death from coronary heart disease increases after the onset of menopause. Recently discovered properties of phyto-oestrogens seem to be of great benefit as they do not seem to have any side effects on the mammary gland and the endometrium which are limiting factors for oestrogen replacement therapy. |
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This does not necessarily mean it is good for all heart conditions - and individual response to anything varies.
According to the "doctrine of signatures" kudzu should be good for the heart - the shape of the leaves resembles the heart, and presumably God made them that shape so humans would know what to use them for. Oh, wait, I'm one of those evolutionists that doesn't use the doctrine of signatures for making medical decisions. But this photo of a kudzu vine clearly is an omen ...
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #30 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 12:26pm » |
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LOL flo!! 
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #31 on: Feb 10th, 2005, 1:38pm » |
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I gotta go shopping soon, so that I can start reporting as well. I might get my cholesterol to a maneageble number as well. There is an idea, I'll take this for a couple of months and have my annual bloodwork done. Let's where that takes me.
Ozzy
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PaulL
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #32 on: Feb 11th, 2005, 8:37am » |
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What is the likelyhood that the chemical structure of whatever is working in the Kudzu is similar to the chemical structure of seratonin, Imitrex, and psilocybin given that it has 5-HT receptor activity?
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vig
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #33 on: Feb 11th, 2005, 9:22am » |
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on Feb 10th, 2005, 1:38pm, ozzy wrote:I gotta go shopping soon, so that I can start reporting as well. I might get my cholesterol to a maneageble number as well. There is an idea, I'll take this for a couple of months and have my annual bloodwork done. Let's where that takes me.
Ozzy |
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You go shopping, I'm just going out into the yard and picking some...
I presume the roots winter-over and are still usable.
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #34 on: Feb 11th, 2005, 10:23am » |
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on Feb 11th, 2005, 8:37am, PaulL wrote:| What is the likelyhood that the chemical structure of whatever is working in the Kudzu is similar to the chemical structure of seratonin, Imitrex, and psilocybin given that it has 5-HT receptor activity? |
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Puerarin doesn't have an indole ring like tryptophan, serotonin, or the triptans.
In liver mitochondria, puerarin and daidzin prevent the final stages of serotonin breakdown .... instead of producing 5-HIAA (inactive, excreted), cells exposed to kudzu saw an increase in serotonin aldehydes like 5-hydroxyindole-3-acetaldehyde (5-HIAL). Google only has 37 references to 5-HIAL, and only 14 of those are uniques, the others are duplicates.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/95/5/2198
Don't know for sure, but 5-HIAL might be the key player in kudzu - it could be the 5-ht1 agonist or 5-ht2 antagonist.
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #35 on: Feb 11th, 2005, 12:18pm » |
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Day 7....so far, so good. I had some pressure on my temple for about 10 minutes this morning, I wouldn't even call it a shadow.
I'm feeling brave. I am supposed to take Concerta for ADD and haven't because it can make the day after a bad CH day. I think I'm going to try it tomorrow. With luck, I can begin to take control of this chaos that is my life.
edited to add: almost 9pm...one more 10 minute pressure thingy...my best day so far! OK...getting a little excited (almost).
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| « Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2005, 10:48pm by nani » |
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PaulL
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #36 on: Feb 13th, 2005, 12:37pm » |
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floridian,
Since Kudzu doesn't seem to be related to the triptans and seratonin, what is the possibility that it will interact with them in some way to make the therapy less effective, assuming nani's success can be repeated?
Nani,
Still feeling good?
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #37 on: Feb 13th, 2005, 2:10pm » |
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Thanks for asking, Paul. Yes...I'm still feeling very good. Yesterday I even took a smaller than normal dose of my ADD meds, to see if they would trigger a CH. (they have in the past) No problems yesterday, and so far so good today. Still not 100% PF, just having those tiny (almost a .5 on the kip scale) temple pressure episodes a couple of times a day, and yesterday I had a k2 shadow for about 15 minutes. 
I beginning to recommend this treatment through PMs. Now I'll recommend it publicly. I think it's certainly worth a try for chronics. I'm now curious to see how it would work for episodics.
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #38 on: Feb 14th, 2005, 8:02am » |
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on Feb 13th, 2005, 12:37pm, PaulL wrote:floridian,
Since Kudzu doesn't seem to be related to the triptans and seratonin, what is the possibility that it will interact with them in some way to make the therapy less effective, assuming nani's success can be repeated?
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There is a real possibility that this would have some interaction with triptans and the alternative treatment. I think it could increase the activity of triptans, which could be quite negative ... Nani cant take triptans, and this is a much more gentle/gradual herb, but if it changes serotonin metabolism, its not a good idea to mix kudzu with triptans. I am also speculating that it could interfere with shrooms if taken in the weeks before trying that approach.
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ozzy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #39 on: Feb 14th, 2005, 12:03pm » |
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modified to add picture of trigeminal
Day three of Kudzu.
I found a formulation that contains only the kudzu extract (Planetary Formulas). Each capsule contains 150 mg
I decided to take the caplets twice a day. First pill, no physical signs that it worked or not.
Second pill, day one. Felt maybe what Nani described as icepick pains. This was in the evening, my usual CH active period. My description of the pain however would be more like:
I felt the trigeminal nerve on my CH side being active. Meaning, if you look at a diagram of the paths of the trigeminal, just like I felt, my teeth, around the eye, cheek, etc. No real CH headache, just the nerve thing. Kinda weird.
So on day 2 and today I only took the "am" caplet, plus the 3mg melatonin at night. We'll see how the week progresses.
Ozzy
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| « Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2005, 1:58pm by ozzy » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #40 on: Feb 14th, 2005, 1:14pm » |
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Day 10...still cruisin'...
A few easy shadows. I like how ozzy said trigeminal nerve activity. I've had that a couple of times, you can feel it but it doesn't really hurt. I have not taken the ADD meds again yet...maybe tomorrow. I don't want to mess with this. Life is good...life is good.
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #41 on: Feb 15th, 2005, 10:48am » |
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Day 11....
I am hardly even a "shadow" of my former self.
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Giovanni
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #42 on: Feb 15th, 2005, 12:17pm » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #43 on: Feb 15th, 2005, 8:49pm » |
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Thanks, Giovanni. I had a rough day today. First, I had to run out to meet the schoolbus without my sunglasses on...sunlight is always a trigger. Then my dog died while I sat with her. That was a 45 minute cry...again always a trigger. The crying required repeated nose blowing...very often a trigger. I had about a k3 shadow for about 45 minutes today. That's all. If I wasn't so broken up about the dog...I think I'd be happy dancing. I may take an extra kudzu cap tonight...just to cover my bases.
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #44 on: Feb 15th, 2005, 9:04pm » |
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If this doesn't require some serious Beta Testing from anybody in cycle, I don't know what does. Cheesus.
Sorry about the dog, Nani.
RJ
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Shiraj
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #45 on: Feb 15th, 2005, 11:40pm » |
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OK my cycle started last week. Just got this bottle of Kudzu and took 2. I registered just to help try this out and share the results. I will keep the board posted.
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #46 on: Feb 16th, 2005, 12:20am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2005, 11:40pm, Shiraj wrote:| OK my cycle started last week. Just got this bottle of Kudzu and took 2. I registered just to help try this out and share the results. I will keep the board posted. |
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That's great, Shiraj...welcome. Let's hope we find lasting relief and pave the way for our fellow CHers to get the same. How about giving us more info...are you taking any other meds now? Have you tried any that did/didn't work? Are you taking any supplements? Have you been diagnosed? Pain free wishes from your fellow guinea pig, nani
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Shiraj
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #47 on: Feb 16th, 2005, 12:35am » |
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Ive been getting these since i was 14 but just figured something might be wrong with me like 3 years ago. Im 21 now. Got diagnosed last year, but really it was me telling my doc what CH was. I now have a whole drawer full of imitrex shots, but its only the first week of pain so it hasnt got to the i wanna kill myself kinda pain yet. I do take the 3mg melatonin before bed and that helps with sleep so far. I tried the clusterbusters thing and that worked but due to stupidity i have none this year. (THAT LAST PART WAS MADE UP IF THERES NARCS)
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ccbiggsoo7
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #48 on: Feb 16th, 2005, 12:39am » |
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Nani, sorry to hear about your loss, no not of the headaches. That is a family member, sometimes better than most family. Glad you have felt some relief!
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chris
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #49 on: Feb 16th, 2005, 11:14am » |
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Thanks CC...
I took an extra kudzu tab last night, just in case. So far, so good today. Again, I'm not completely PF...but have felt about a 95% improvement. No real hits...just easy shadows and nerve activity. I had a bit of my eye twitching last night, but not today.
Ozzy, Shiraj... how are you guys doing?
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