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Topic: 5-HT activity in Kudzu (Read 32676 times) |
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #75 on: Feb 17th, 2005, 3:46pm » |
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on Feb 17th, 2005, 3:09pm, Mr. Happy wrote:
Hokay. So I'm trying to figure this out in dog years. Checked out Kudzu pills at the local Health Food Rip Off store. Bottled 50 ct/$12.95, each pill rated at 615 mg, or 0.6 grams. That's approx 18 pills/day, unless you folks are taking some mighty big horse caps, or I'm missing an important point. Got the owner to check into bulk Kudzo after he quit laffing.
Enlighten me,
RJ
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That 9 - 15 grams is for whole root boiled in water. For powdered kudzu in a capsule, less is needed (less of the active ingredients dissolve in the tea) For extracts, less is also needed. Also, individuals may vary in how much they need - some do well on 3 mg melatonin or 150 mg verap, others need much more.
Read the article: http://tinyurl.com/4tfwd ... it won't enlighten you, but may help you on your journey.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2005, 3:49pm by floridian » |
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #76 on: Feb 17th, 2005, 4:04pm » |
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on Feb 17th, 2005, 3:46pm, floridian wrote:
Read it, PDF'd it, and saved it in case you fall off the face of the earth tomorrow. What are you Really up to, hiding out down there in Florida.......a planned free cluster headache book online!!! Wowsers, mate.
The only thing guarenteed in the pill content was diadzin. Nothing about puerarin or anything else.
This is really getting interesting!
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #77 on: Feb 17th, 2005, 4:13pm » |
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on Feb 17th, 2005, 4:04pm, Mr. Happy wrote:
The only thing guarenteed in the pill content was diadzin. Nothing about puerarin or anything else.
This is really getting interesting!
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Is the bottle green and white? A company with the initials N.W. ? That is an extract - definitely stronger than the plain root.
What am I really doing in Florida?? Wandered down this way when I heard that the winters were nice.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2005, 4:35pm by floridian » |
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vig
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #78 on: Feb 17th, 2005, 4:27pm » |
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I think I'd better hit the Kudzu fields before they barbed-wire them off....
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BobG
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #79 on: Feb 17th, 2005, 5:05pm » |
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on Feb 17th, 2005, 4:27pm, vig wrote:| I think I'd better hit the Kudzu fields before they barbed-wire them off.... |
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Good point. If the drug manufactureres find out that kaduz actually works it will have the FDA outlaw it as a very dangerous substance and then make fake kadzu and get a patent.
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thomas
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #80 on: Feb 17th, 2005, 5:17pm » |
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on Feb 17th, 2005, 5:05pm, BobG wrote:
Good point. If the drug manufactureres find out that kaduz actually works it will have the FDA outlaw it as a very dangerous substance and then make fake kadzu and get a patent. |
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HA! HA! They can't get rid of the stuff in Mississippi! It is a plague you can't kill it, it grows anywere. Don't worry, I'll have my mom get some and send it to you! 
Edit to drop this link in
http://www.cptr.ua.edu/kudzu/
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| « Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2005, 5:20pm by thomas » |
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #81 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 9:32am » |
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Day 14: Still cruisin'
Took a second tab at 10 PM hoping it wasn't to late to stave off the 10:30 shadow. It wasn't. Very mild 15 min shadows twice yesterday.
Ozzy...Shiraj....can you check in?
We need more testers, people. I know there are quite a few of you who could use this method...
And I'm going to update everyday...just to keep this thread at the top. People need to know about this possibility. nani
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| « Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2005, 9:33am by nani » |
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Redd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #82 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 9:38am » |
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Wouldn't be awsome if something this simple, and this legal was the answer we have been hopeing for? Ok, I'm biting and I ordered a bottle. I've checked with all the local and not so local health food stores here and not a one carries Kudzu in any shape or form so I ordered the formula nani takes.
So we'll see what happens. Should be here mid next week.
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #83 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 10:33am » |
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Got the Kud yesterday. I haven't had the trex in about 4 or 5 days, so I think I am good there, but Flo said something about the Verap. Went to doc today and my BP is normal.
This is the formula I got: The bottle says this it is Kudzu Extract, 150 mg. The ingredients say:
Amount per Capsule -
Kudzu (Pueraria lobata) (root) 165mg
Kudzu (Pueraria lobata) (root extract) 150mg
(guaranteed 2% [3mg]diadzin)
Got a B complex too, though not sure if it is necessary with my multi vitamin. It has more B than the Multi, that's for sure.
Did I get the right stuff?
Took 1 this morning. I guess we'll see.
Casey
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #84 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 10:59am » |
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That sounds like kudzu, Clarence.
For the B-vitamins, go for more than the poverty level (minimum daily allowance, which is enough to keep you from dying of a nutritional disease). Half a B-50 is what I take on most days. The urine should be bright yellow for much of the day, but if you drink enough water, it should clear up a few times a day.
Keeping fingers crossed.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2005, 2:03pm by floridian » |
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floridian
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Kudzu boost endorphins, blocks calcium Channels
« Reply #85 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 2:02pm » |
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Well, the kudzu can act as a calcium channel blocker, reinforcing the concern over interactions with verapamil. Not sure if there is an additive effect, a multiplicative effect, or if it takes a bucket full of kudzu to get the calcium channels blocked. But people who take kudzu should definitely ease into it while monitoring their blood pressure and heart rate regularly. Nani hasn't experienced any negative effects, and she said her bp was still high even though she was taking verap.
Quote:Zhongguo Zhong Yao Za Zhi. 2004 Mar;29(3):248-51.
Effect of puerarin on L-type calcium channel in isolated rat ventricular myocytes]
Guo XG, Chen JZ, Zhang X, Xia Q. Department of Cardiology, The First Affiliated Hospital, School of Medicine, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou 310003, China. gxg@mail.hz.zj.cn
OBJECTIVE: To observe the effect of Puerarin on L-type calcium channel in isolated rat ventricular myocytes. METHOD: The cardiac ventricular myocytes were isolated enzymatically by Langendorff perfusion techniques at constant flow rate. Whole-cell recording of patch-clamp techniques was used to observe the current of L-type calcium channel. RESULT: Puerarin 2.4 mmol x L(-1) could inhibit the current of L-type calcium channel of rat ventricular myocytes and this inhibition was time-dependent. Purerarin elevated the current-voltage (I-V) curve of calcium current. CONCLUSION: Puerarin can inhibit L-type calcium current of rat ventricular myocytes. Which implies that puerarin takes part in anti-myocardial ischemia and anti-arrhythmics partly due to the inhibition of L-type calcium channel. |
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And kudzu may increase endorphins, which could could reduce pain and improve mood.
Quote:Planta Med. 2004 Feb;70(2):113-6.
Mediation of beta-endorphin by the isoflavone puerarin to lower plasma glucose in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats.
Chen WC, Hayakawa S, Yamamoto T, Su HC, Liu IM, Cheng JT. Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, School of Medicine, Nihon University, Tokyo City, Japan. jtcheng@mail.ncku.edu.tw
We investigate the mechanism(s) of plasma glucose lowering action of puerarin in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats (STZ-diabetic rats). Puerarin at the effective dosage to lower higher plasma glucose increased plasma beta-endorphin-like immunoreactivity (BER) in STZ-diabetic rats. Both effects of puerarin were abolished by the pretreatment with prazosin. Also, puerarin enhanced BER release from isolated rat adrenal medulla in a concentration-dependent manner that can be abolished by prazosin. Moreover, bilateral adrenalectomy in STZ-diabetic rats eliminated the actions of puerarin including the plasma glucose lowering effect and plasma BER elevating effect. In addition, naloxone and naloxonazine inhibited the plasma glucose lowering action of puerarin. Unlike in wild-type diabetic mice, puerarin failed to lower the plasma glucose in opioid micro-receptor knockout diabetic mice. In conclusion, our results suggest that puerarin may activate alpha (1)-adrenoceptors on the adrenal gland to enhance the secretion of beta-endorphin to result in a decrease of plasma glucose in STZ-diabetic rats.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2005, 2:10pm by floridian » |
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #86 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 4:30pm » |
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One other question for the medically minded (I think I mostly mean you floridian...sorry man). What about anti-depressents? I take 20mg fluoxetine (prozac) a day. Should I be worried?
Worried about an interaction I mean.
Casey
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| « Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2005, 4:31pm by clarence » |
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floridian
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #87 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 4:43pm » |
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The more things a person takes, the more potential interactions. I keep updating the article - today found evidence that kudzu can raise endorphins and acts as a beta blocker. Add this to the list, and the list is pretty long. My guess is that most of these actions are not that strong, they are seen mostly in the lab with high doses. But something in kudzu is active even at normal doses ... which metabolic pathways are really affected??
Prozac is going to increase the amount of serotonin in the receptor (post synaptic reuptake inhibitor). If the 5-ht1 agonism and 5-ht2 antagonism from kudzu comes into play, will that increase the effect of prozac? I don't know. If it only blocks the 5-ht2 receptors, then I don't think it would be a problem. But anything that turns up the serotonin could have some risk if combined with triptans, SSRIs, etc.
At this point, I can't say it is safe when taking this, but not when taking that. The history of kudzu suggests it is fairly safe, but most of that experience was not tested with modern meds.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2005, 4:47pm by floridian » |
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clarence
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #88 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 4:44pm » |
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floridian,
Thanks for all of your research and hard work. I, we all, really appreciate it.
Casey
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #89 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 6:45pm » |
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Yes, flo, we REALLY appreciate it. love, nani
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Giovanni
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #90 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 8:34pm » |
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I hope Glaxo doesn't discover this thread. They would bottle it for $25.00 a pill, outlaw the use without RX. 
BTW, I'm another who appreciates Floridian's hard work.
John
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vig
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #91 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 9:41pm » |
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add me to list of grateful people Floridian...
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #92 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 10:01pm » |
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Next step. We need a pill. Not just any pill. The same pill. By the same manufacturer. With the same goop inside. Otherwise, it's all for one, one for all, or every man for himself.
Might as well get it right from the start. You go first.
RJ
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Redd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #93 on: Feb 18th, 2005, 11:33pm » |
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Add me to the list too Flo...
and Randy my dear demented friend....with all due love and respect...
stop being a party pooper, and raining on our kudzu...lol.
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Shiraj
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #94 on: Feb 19th, 2005, 1:28am » |
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mmm yesss i think this is working for me too. I was actually late to school today because there was no headache to wake me up at 5:30 on the dot. I got hit once on the second day but day 3 is pain freeeeeee
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Giovanni
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #95 on: Feb 19th, 2005, 8:18am » |
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Quote:Posted by: Mr. Happy
Next step. We need a pill. Not just any pill. The same pill. By the same manufacturer. With the same goop inside. Otherwise, it's all for one, one for all, or every man for himself |
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Happy's right on this one. 
John
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Redd
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #96 on: Feb 19th, 2005, 8:43am » |
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on Feb 19th, 2005, 8:18am, Giovanni wrote:
Happy's right on this one.
John |
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Just playing *Devil's advocate* here for a moment. Why must there be a uniform presentation of this (naturally occuring) form of treatment? One thing we all know is that we are each individuals and we all react differently to the meds we've taken. Some folk have success with Verapamil alone. Some need to couple it with Lithium. Some can use Trex injections where others cannot. Depakote, or Caffergot or others in varried doses work for others. Even the clusterbusters method takes varried doses, and frequency of doses, and even methods of ingestion.
Why would we think kudza requires any less variety than other treatment forms?
Not wanting to start an arguement..just a healthy debate on why Kudza should be uniformed at a higher level of control than any other treatment method.
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #97 on: Feb 19th, 2005, 11:52am » |
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Randy's idea would have probably been the ideal way to test this. Since we didn't start this way and Pegg has a good point about us all responding differently to the same meds, I think we should just continue the way we started. As long as the main ingredient is kudzu, we'll get a good idea on how it works for all of us. Day 15...still cruisin'
Shiraj...I'm excited for you...sounds like you're getting some benefit as well.
I'm starting to happy dance....
Edited to add: I am going to slowly taper off Neurontin this week. I will attempt to do the same with the lithium in the future. As I've stated brefore...I will continue Verap because of my high blood pressure.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2005, 2:15pm by nani » |
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Mr. Happy
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #98 on: Feb 19th, 2005, 4:53pm » |
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on Feb 19th, 2005, 8:43am, Redd715 wrote:| why Kudza should be uniformed at a higher level of control than any other treatment method. |
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I'm not looking for a higher level of control........I'm looking for _ANY_ level of control. I don't know what the hell I'll be taking. It sure isn't what Casey has, or Nani, or Ozzy, or.....well, who knows what I'm taking in what quantitty.
 
BTW........talked to Ozzy this afternoon, and he said 2 Kudzu tabs were worthless as an abortive at 3 AM.
Always keep your O2 handy,
RJ
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nani
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Re: 5-HT activity in Kudzu
« Reply #99 on: Feb 19th, 2005, 5:27pm » |
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Thanks for letting us know Ozzy...  Sorry it didn't help that night. 
I found that it had a prevent effect when I began to take one before my regular 10:30 shadow. And it seems to be working as a prevent for me. Still a few very low kip shadows for a few minutes each day. No hits since I started it.
Randy, I'm now taking 1500 mgs a day. Again, my formula has additional herbs as it's actually an alcohol recovery blend. But the kudzu is 1500 mgs a day (in 2 tabs). I take one in the morning and one in the evening. Who can come up with a way for us all to post all the info we should be gathering? I've looked at C.H.A.T.S and I must be a log in 'tard...cause I can't get anywhere with it. Is there something similar available? Or can someone come up with something like it?
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