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New Very Scared Person.... (Read 18815 times)
thebbz
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #25 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 3:39pm
 
Quote:
I get really hot while having an attack....I mean cook from the inside out.
I'm not sure what effect coffee would have on this, as it is, I seem to have an attack at the slightest change in temperature, be it hot or cold, won't drinking a hot drink while sweating myself to death do more harm?


read this is may explain the hothead.
Quote:
P. D. Drummond and J. W. Lance
From the Department of Neurology, The Prince Henry Hospital, Sydney, Australia.

Eleven patients were examined thermographically during spontaneous cluster headaches and 22 during attacks induced by nitroglycerin or alcohol. In cluster headache, heat loss increased from the affected orbital region, and in some patients, this spread above and below the eye, down the nose, and to the affected temple. Inhalation of 100% oxygen reduced or abolished cluster pain in 22 of 25 instances, and asymmetry of heat loss then disappeared. Since the unilateral increase in blood flow usually followed the onset of pain in affected areas, the vascular changes of cluster headache are probably secondary phenomena, initiated by a vasodilator pathway, with the trigeminal nerve as the afferent and the greater superficial petrosal nerve as the efferent limb.

Cheesy
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Scott Lawrence
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #26 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 3:57pm
 
Wow.....where do you get all this from?

The burning up thing sucks....the only thing that kinda helps is sitting in front of a 16" fan, and even then it doesn't do much...

I can feel one coming on now, near enough dead on 9 as usual...time to prepare... Cry
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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thebbz
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #27 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 4:05pm
 
Hang tough Scott. There are many here that have studied this condition obsessively. I am just one. 29 years of battle helps too Wink
Kick some demon a$$ now.
the bb
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CH-HELL
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #28 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 4:21pm
 
  15 years of battle here 1000's of years total on this site.  Hope to see you back online soon hope you got some Red Bull and slammed it.
   Keep fightin,   Phil
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LeLimey
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #29 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 4:49pm
 
Hi Scott -
I'm here in the UK too and if there is anything I can do to help I will. If you want to talk anytime send me a pm with your phone number and I'll call you

Regards
Helen

PS This bunch know me well and will vouch for the fact that they don't come meaner, eviler (is that a word?!) or shorter LOL

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thebbz
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #30 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 4:57pm
 
Listen to Helen...or get the broom Grin
Call her you'll be glad ya did. Wink
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Scott Lawrence
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #31 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 4:59pm
 
It's just more or less finished, about 55 mins, it hurt like f**K and I feel like crap now, rizatriptan didn't work again, the cold coffee didn't really do anything, except taste like cold coffee.....ice pack went down a treat on forehead but couldn't put it anywhere near eye or temple due to the pain, going to grab some fresh air.....and try to find a new head.....
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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LeLimey
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #32 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 5:05pm
 
Hi Scott - the cold fresh air should help. It's the first thing I do when getting hit, get cold.. anyhow, check your pm's!

Hoping you get some PF time now
Helen
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Scott Lawrence
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #33 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 5:18pm
 
More or less clear now....beats me how they come on so fast and then just disappear...

Thanks everyone for you help, you guys rock... Smiley
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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CH-HELL
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #34 - Nov 3rd, 2008 at 5:30pm
 
  Welcome back Scott sorry it took 55mins,  if you drink 4-5 cups of coffee a day it hard to abort with the coffee get some Red Bull and slam it down at the first sign of a hit.  Your Rizatriptan my have aborted the hit it just takes way to long you need to try to get the sumtriptan injections works 90% of the time and only takes 5-15mins and o2 helps most clusterheads.  Call your doctor tomorrow and call Helen tonite.
  Hope for some pf time for you,  Phil
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Leon
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #35 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 3:55am
 
Hang on man, I'm 17 and I suffer since I was 13. My last cycle was hell, I had no Idea that i can scream and cry like I did. You must see a pain relief doc!!!

Guys, are you crazy?
Taking 720 mg a day of Verapamil can cause a shit load of harm!
Overdose of Verapamil can kill your heart...be careful!

Actually there is one thing that can break the pain cycle for sure and it's Lithium, but again you should go to a Pain relief clinic, a simple nuerolog can't really help you..
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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2008 at 4:12am by Leon »  
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Scott Lawrence
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #36 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 6:09am
 
Had my worst night in 2 months, hits at 23.30, 2.00 and 8.00, rizatriptan did nothing for the 23.30 but it was only a 45min-ish hit, had to ride out the other 2 as I had already done my 2 wafers, both around 90 mins, they seem to be getting gradually worse, especially all the crap that happens to the eye and temple, the swelling on the temple is like really noticeable now, and I couldn't even open my eye, the most swollen up it's ever been. Called the Neuro, can't see me until next Thursday (13th)....Trying to get a GP appointment to get some O2 fast, the pain is just getting far too intense
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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ClusterChuck
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #37 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 6:31am
 
Leon wrote on Nov 4th, 2008 at 3:55am:
Guys, are you crazy?
Taking 720 mg a day of Verapamil can cause a shit load of harm!
Overdose of Verapamil can kill your heart...be careful!

Leon, you are young.  You are new.  You are not a doctor.  So we will cut you little slack.

There are many that take verapamil up into the 900 mg range.  None of them are dead from it.  YES, it is done under a doctor's direction and care.

Please know what you are talking about before you falsely scare someone that does not know better.  If monitored properly and administered properly, it is ok to do.  It is the level that some have to reach, before proper results are achieved.

Welcome to the site, Leon, but please be careful of the comments that you make, when you don't know any better.

Chuck

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CH-HELL
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #38 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 6:37am
 
  Sorry to hear about the rough night your not alone hope your gp calls soon and gets some of tools you need.   Get some Red Bull for now it doesn't work every time but if you havn't tried it then I highly recommend it.
       Phil

P.S.  LEON dont give out bad advise 720mg of Verapamil is not for everyone but that is up to a doctor,  most doctors require ekg's after a dose of over 480mg.
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MaxPayne
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #39 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 6:53am
 
Hi Scott!

Sorry to hear that you're having such a hard time, I've had CH since 2000, every spring for 3 months (Changed last time to Winter and now I got it in the fall.. haha beastie laughing..).

Usually I have used Imitrex as an abortive, I have never used any preventatives for it. I tried something different this time. My cycle started early september, and I decided to go without any medication this time. Using Imitrex might prolong the cycle and also it can cause rebound headaches.

As I am going into remission now, it might be that I have shaved off 4 weeks because of not taking any meds. I don't recomend it to anyone of course. At least the k10's has been fewer this time around, only five major attacks when I peaked 3 weeks ago.

What helped me alot was doing push ups at the slightest feeling of shadow or at once when I have been woken during nighttime. Your body takes up more oxygen when you exercise hard and I have aborted most of my CH's like that. It doesn't help on the k10's though, so might want to have O2 for those.

The peak is the worst of course. hit every other hour in the evening, and every hour while sleeping. 7 times at most in one night.

Hope you might be peaking now, and that you get some well earned painfree days and nights!

No need to be scared, try and not change routines and sleep patterns too much, this will pass sooner or later.

Oh yea the coffee is not bullshit, I am big coffee drinker in the daytime, but it is still effective to abort headaches regardless. Steaming hot coffee in a big mug. Drink as fast as you can when shadowing, or feel CH onset.

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Scott Lawrence
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #40 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 7:20am
 
Cheers guys,

Believe me I'm taking it all on board.
Not sure the hot coffee would work, especially with the hothead and everything, but I have been out and got 2 6 packs of red bull...

Is there any way to stop the swelling around the eye and temple?
I've noticed that my right eye is now nearly always 'droopy' looking along with the corner of my mouth, almost looks like I've had a stroke or something...
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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MaxPayne
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #41 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 7:27am
 
Some years ago when I had a particulary nasty cycle, my left eye became droopy and has stayed that way ever since Sad Doesn't mean it will happen to you, it might get back to normal when you come out of your cycle. It's called Horners syndrom and is another little kick in the nuts that CH deals out.
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ClusterChuck
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #42 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 7:31am
 
Scott Lawrence wrote on Nov 4th, 2008 at 7:20am:
Is there any way to stop the swelling around the eye and temple?

You may laugh at this, but an old model/movie star trick that supposedly works, put Preparation H on it to reduce the swelling.

They use it to get rid of the bags under their eyes when they had a lil' to much fun, the night before ...

Chuck

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Scott Lawrence
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #43 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 7:42am
 
What's 'Preparation H'? I've never heard of it over here
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #44 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 8:09am
 
Think it is an american brand hemmoroid cream, probably won't do anything for your Horners syndrom though since that does not come from fast living Wink
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Scott Lawrence
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #45 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 8:38am
 
lol
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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thebbz
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #46 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 1:27pm
 
You keep on battling Scott. As you continue, you will gain knowledge and information. Your fight with this will become easier. If you have any specific questions, shoot them out there. We are all with you.
Glad your still with us
thebb
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thebbz
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #47 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 1:31pm
 
Thanks for caring Leon. Here's the poop on Verap for CH. Quote:
Cardiac Abnormalities Associated with Verapamil When Used to Prevent Cluster Headache
[ARTICLE]
Goodman, Alice

ARTICLE IN BRIEF
✓ Based on findings of cardiac abnormalities in patients taking verapamil for cluster headache, investigators recommend that these patients be given an EKG at baseline, during dose escalation, and every six months for long-term maintenance.


Verapamil, a calcium-channel antagonist approved for treatment of cardiovascular disease (angina and hypertension), is commonly used as a first-line medication to prevent cluster headache. Although this drug is highly effective in preventing the excruciating episodes of cluster headache, its effectiveness comes with a price - cardiac abnormalities.

An Aug. 14 study in Neurology found that 18 percent of cluster headache patients who had been referred to a headache clinic and treated with verapamil had possibly serious EKG abnormalities (69:668-675).

Cluster headache is typically characterized by severe daily attacks of unilateral head pain that occur in a cyclical pattern, or clusters. Bouts of cluster attacks can last from days to weeks, followed by long periods of complete remission. The disorder can be difficult to treat, and patients with cluster headache are often desperate for relief.

The doses of verapamil used to treat cluster headache are much higher than those used to treat cardiovascular disease. Once you step into the arena of 'neurological' doses of verapamil [as opposed to 'cardiovascular' doses], dangerous side effects can occur, said senior study author Peter J. Goadsby, MD, PhD, professor of clinical neurology at the Institute of Neurology at the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, Queen Square, London, UK, and the department of neurology at the University of California-San Francisco.

Verapamil is approved for cardiovascular indications at doses of 180 mg to 480 mg/day. The drug comes in two forms: short-acting verapamil and sustained-release verapamil.

In the current study, patients were treated with short-acting verapamil in 80 mg increments. The range of doses of verapamil was 240- to 960-mg/day, with a median dose of 516 mg/day. This is similar to doses used in clinical practice by neurologists who treat cluster headache, Dr. Goadsby said. Use of verapamil in cluster headache is off-label, and there are no large, well-designed, randomized, controlled trials to support its use.

Dr. Goadsby and colleagues have a referral practice at the Headache Clinic of the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery where they see a greater number of patients with cluster headache than would be seen in general practice, since this is a rare disorder. (Cluster headache occurs in 0.3 percent of the population, while migraine occurs in 13 percent.) They became aware of the serious cardiac abnormalities sometimes associated with verapamil when one cluster headache patient taking the drug had complete heart block.

This wake-up call led to the current study, which was designed to document the extent of cardiac abnormalities in patients treated with verapamil. We found that not only do cardiac abnormalities occur, but they also occur in about one in five cluster headache patients. We were quite surprised by the magnitude of the problem, Dr. Goadsby commented.

STUDY POPULATION
The study was based on patients who attended the Headache Clinic at the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery from September 2001 to September 2005. Out of 369 patients with cluster headache treated with high-dose verapamil, 129 outpatients (161 of them men) had an EKG. Verapamil was initiated at 240 mg/day and increased by 80 mg every two weeks to a maximum daily dose of 960 mg. One patient was treated with 1,200 mg/day. The dose of verapamil was escalated until cluster headache was suppressed or side effects developed.

EKGs were conducted in the clinic in 108 patients, and an additional 20 patients had EKGs elsewhere; no EKGs were conducted for 89 patients, which is contrary to current recommendations. Among reasons given for the lack of an EKG: patients or their service providers were reluctant to have frequent assessments (47 percent); 10 percent had EKGs before taking verapamil but declined EKG monitoring; 2 percent took verapamil for only two weeks; and 13 percent stopped taking the drug because of constipation, lethargy, chest pain, postural hypotension, or nonspecific malaise. One patient did not have EKG monitoring because he had a dual pacemaker prior to starting verapamil; and no reasons were available for why the remaining 32 patients did not have EKG monitoring.

Of the 108 patients who had EKGs performed in the hospital, 13 patients had first-degree heart block (mean daily dose of verapamil, 578 mg); nine had other heart block (mean daily dose, 604 mg); 21 had total arrhythmias (mean daily dose, 567 mg); PR interval - a measure of the time it takes between the atrium contracting (P wave) and the ventricle contracting (QRS complex) - increased by <0.2 seconds in eight patients (mean daily dose, 653 mg); and 39 patients had bradycardia (mean daily dose, 659 mg). Verapamil was stopped in four of the patients with bradycardia.

MONITORING RECOMMENDED
Dr. Goadsby said that the study has several important implications. All patients with cluster headache treated with verapamil should have an EKG at baseline, for dose escalation, and then every six months for long-term maintenance. Despite these recommendations, a substantial number of patients failed to have EKG monitoring or EKGs were lost.

Dr. Goadsby commented that EKG abnormalities are not dose-dependent and can occur in patients on doses as low as 240 mg/day, so it would be insufficient to just monitor patients on higher doses, he said.

The study showed that EKG abnormalities can develop even in patients on a stable dose of verapamil. In one of our patients stabilized on 960 mg with no cardiac abnormalities, we saw dramatic EKG abnormalities 12 months later, Dr. Goadsby said. This problem may creep up in time. Since cluster headache is lifelong and doesn't go away, we recommend monitoring with EKG at intervals of six months, even in patients on stable doses.

EKG monitoring is inexpensive and non-invasive, he said, and will keep a proportion of these patients on high-dose verapamil out of trouble.

Although verapamil has the potential for causing life-threatening arrhythmias, use of this drug can revolutionize the lives of patients with cluster headache, Dr. Goadsby continued. It is excellent preventive therapy that can stop the occurrence of cluster headache.

EXPERTS COMMENT
Dr. Goadsby and colleagues are to be congratulated for publishing this study, said Fred Sheftell, MD, director of the New England Center for Headache in Stamford, CT, and president-elect of the American Headache Society. This is an important wake-up call to neurologists who use high-dose verapamil to treat cluster headache.

Dr. Sheftell added that he and his colleagues at the New England Center for Headache routinely use EKG to monitor cluster headache patients on high-dose verapamil.

When I get to doses higher than 720 mg/day, I involve a cardiologist for reassurance, Dr. Sheftell said. If EKG equipment is not available in the office of the doctor who is treating cluster headache, then the patient should at least be referred to his or her primary care doctor for EKG monitoring. The problem with such a referral is that cluster headache patients may not comply, Dr. Sheftell explained, because the pain is so severe that they are willing to court dangerous situations with use of medications. Therefore, we should insist that the EKG and the interpretation be sent to us to ensure safety.

SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL
Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil, Dr. Sheftell noted.

I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache, he said. I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience, Dr. Sheftell commented.

A little-known fact about verapamil is that it may inhibit sperm motility, Dr. Sheftell continued (Res Exper Med 1994;194:165-178). Men should be so advised if they are or will be considering having children, he noted.

REFERENCES
• Cohen AS, Matharu M, Goadsby PJ. Electrocardiographic abnormalities in patients with cluster headache on verapamil therapy. Neurology 2007;69:668-675.
[Fulltext Link] [CrossRef]
• Anand RJ, Kanwar U, Sanyal N. Calcium-channel antagonist verapamil modulates human spermatozoal functions. Res Exper Med 1994;194:165-178.
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LeLimey
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #48 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 2:11pm
 
John I spoke to Scott this afternoon - told him I'd hunt him down and cut off the protruding parts of his body if he didn't ask for any help I could give AND update me after his doctor's appt tomorrow! Fingers crossed for O2 for Scott please everyone! Smiley
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Re: New Very Scared Person....
Reply #49 - Nov 4th, 2008 at 2:16pm
 
Thanks Helen, your help is really appreciated.

With the O2 taking a couple of days to reach me, will they give me the Sumatriptan straight away?

I had another one around 30 mins after my call and once again the Rizatriptan didn't do anything.
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“Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.”
“I enjoy convalescence. It is the part that makes the illness worth while.”
Scott Lawrence 652942399  
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