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Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey (Read 89483 times)
CH Brain.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #700 - Jul 23rd, 2017 at 4:33am
 
Hi Batch,

Could you please outline for me, Magnesium 'equivalents' with regard to supplementing the D3 regimen?

I've tried to research it but "The definitive guide to Magnesium Supplements" is not so definitive. It does not mention Chelates.
Wikipedia says this of "equivalents" (Chem), but then goes on:

Quote:
An equivalent (symbol: Eq) is the amount of a substance that reacts with (or is equivalent to) an arbitrary amount of another substance in a given chemical reaction.† The mass of an equivalent is called its equivalent weight.

My Magnesium supplement says this on the label:
Quote:
Magnesium amino acid chelate 500mg equiv. to elemental magnesium 100mg

So when you talk of titrating, or doubling up to say, 1000mg *total* of Magnesium supplement (in mg)... are we using the base/starting figure of 500mg or 100mg in the above example?
(I assume 500mg is our starting dosage which we then double, as a tenfold dosage adjustment would have... well... explosive results...)

I'm sure I am not alone in trying to work out how much magnesium supplement is appropriate when settling on a daily dosage. I would like to make comparisons on-shelf when selecting a supplement and dose. The 'equiv' labelling is confusing to me for Magnesium dosing.
Any light you can shed on this would greatly assist myself and a few others not on this forum.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the poorly worded, rookie questions.
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Batch
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #701 - Jul 23rd, 2017 at 10:55am
 
Hey CH Brain,

Good question about a topic that can be confusing.† I'm a firm believer in KISS... Keep it simple... and don't be silly...

From a chemical viewpoint there is a difference between elemental magnesium, "Mg" and a salt of magnesium like magnesium oxide MgO.† As the molecular weight of Magnesium "Mg" is 24 and the molecular weight of oxygen "O" is 16, the molecular weight of magnesium oxide "MgO" is 40.† That makes the elemental magnesium component of magnesium oxide 60% of the total molecular weight.†

This is the highest ratio of elemental magnesium for all the magnesium salts.† There are some who say MgO has a low bioavailability and that may be true...† That said, from my experience, the higher ratio of elemental magnesium in MgO more than makes up for any lack of bioavailability.

The CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21 states the supplement facts label must state the weight of the elemental mineral not the salt.  Accordingly, if you're taking 400 mg/day of the Nature Made "liquid" magnesium oxide per day that I suggest, you're getting 400 mg of elemental magnesium and if you double the dose, you're getting 800 mg/day elemental magnesium.

I do suggest you take 400 mg magnesium oxide in the morning and the second 400 mg 12 hours later...† Rationale, that makes for 12 feet of separation in the GI tract and that lowers the probability of osmotic diarrhea.

The human body has a tough time metabolizing elemental magnesium but does a great job with magnesium salts... and there are a lot of them.†

The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for Magnesium is 400 to 420 mg/day.† Accordingly, getting back to KISS...†Follow the dosing guide on the back label and don't worry about calculating the elemental magnesium component as the daily dose...

The important thing to remember is we need magnesium not only while taking vitamin D3 where it is essential, but also for good general health.

In a relate side note, if you have high blood pressure, taking at least 400 mg/day magnesium oxide and drinking two liters of water a day can bring your BP down by 10%.

Take care and hope this answers your question.

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Jul 24th, 2017 at 9:34am by Batch »  

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CH Brain.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #702 - Jul 23rd, 2017 at 6:30pm
 
Thanks Batch, this is excellent info.
Also thanks for applying the 'KISS' approach, which some of us non-chemistry guru types need in order to better understand things.

Quote:
Accordingly, getting back to KISS...† Using the molecular weight of magnesium salts (per the dosing guide on the back label) as opposed to calculating the elemental magnesium component as the daily dose works for most of us just fine...


It makes me wonder why manufacturers publish this equivalency data on the front of the label, it confuses me and a few others too.

So, if I'm correct in using the calculations shown above... from my current supplement taken twice daily (Magnesium amino acid chelate 500mg equiv. to elemental magnesium 100mg) I'm getting a total 200mg of elemental Magnesium, at best?

I shall track down the Magnesium oxide in liquid form, aim for the 400mg per day and see how that goes before I up to 400mg morning and evening.
I did not know I had such a deficit, it's something I must address. My GP will be happy with anything that assists in lowering my BP too.

Thanks again Batch.

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #703 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 12:17am
 
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #704 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 2:33am
 
Hey Batch, I'm taking LifeExtension Magnesium Citrate, 160mg 40% daily value x 2/day, would I be right in thinking this is 320mg of Magnesium Citrate I'm getting per day.

Cheers Hoppy
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CH Brain.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #705 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 8:28am
 
Thanks for the Pic Batch, that makes it self explanatory really.
Mag Oxide gelcaps are not on shelf here and it's become too much expense and hassle to ship, so I will stick with a tablet form of mag Oxide and hope for the best.

Thanks again.

Apologies to Batch, but as this is D3 regimen safety related...
Hoppy, that's an interesting signature, an off-site link to a FB page. I had a bit of a read.
Some of the D3 regimen advice you've given there I found questionable (D3 stored in bones, etc). What is especially alarming to me, is there's no link back here for the 430 odd "follower" CHers, so they can view the source of the D3 regimen and ask Batch questions.
I note the link to VitaminDwiki but none here.

Crediting the source is important for the safety of D3 regimen users, Hoppy. Batch is always here to field questions and make updates to the original thread. I always find it simple good manners to credit my source and wherever possible, seek permissions to quote someone's work.

Other parts of your off-site page seemed well... very familiar...

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #706 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 9:03am
 
Hoppy,

Great question and the short answer is no... I may have confused this issue in the earlier post.  If you're taking 320 mg of calcium citrate, you're taking 320 mg of elemental calcium.  See the following for details.

Per the CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21 which governs supplement labeling...

Dietary Supplement Labeling Guide: Chapter IV. Nutrition Labeling

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Amounts

    If the calcium carbonate in my product supplies calcium , should I list the weight of the entire salt or just of the calcium?

    You must list the weight of calcium, rather than the weight of the calcium carbonate, the source ingredient, in the "Supplement Facts" panel.

    21 CFR 101.36(b)(2)(ii)

Hope this helps.

Take care

V/R, Batch
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #707 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 6:35pm
 
Batch, not calcium citrate, I'm taking 320mg of magnesium citrate? by the way, I have lift off  Smiley

Cheers Hoppy
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #708 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 6:42pm
 
Brian, their are lots of references there from myself and other members to this website and ClusterBusters. Also, you wrote, Some of the D3 regimen advice you've given there I found questionable (D3 stored in bones, etc). I'd be interested to know where you read that? Their are lots of articles and comments on the importance of taking K2 together with vitamin D to get it to your bones. The VitaminDwiki link you mentioned, also refers readers to this website.

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Anyway, this is not the thread to do your whingeing on.

Cheers Hoppy
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« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2017 at 2:13am by Hoppy »  

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #709 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 7:36pm
 
Hi everyone!
Quick question for Batch on the D3 regimen....have you had anyone with chronic paroxysmal hemicrania try this?† And if so, what were the results?

The reason I ask is that I just found out that a lady I graduated HS with has had CH for 20 years and they have now told her she has "intractable chronic paroxysmal hemicrania".† From my short conversation with her, it sounds as though she has tried everything -- even the nerve block which hasn't helped.† Turns out she has an allergic reaction to most meds that she has been prescribed as well.† Not good.†

Just grasping at straws here and was wondering if the D3 regimen might work for her.† Like she said "I'll try just about anything if it will help".†

Thanks for your help!

Payg
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #710 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 9:21am
 
Hey Payg,

Great question and the answer is there is every reason to expect your friend with chronic paroxysmal hemicrania (CPH) has a vitamin D3 deficiency (likely a magnesium deficiency as well), and this deficiency is contributing to her intractable CPH.

Accordingly, I would be surprised if your friend with intractable CPH didn't respond to vitamin D3 and the rest of the anti-inflammatory regimen including a week to 10 day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).†

The first step is to have her see her PCP for the 25(OH)D lab test and discuss the anti-inflammatory regimen.† She can download a copy of the treatment protocol at the following link.†

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Please download a copy and email it to her if possible.† Once your friend has had her blood drawn for the 25(OH)D lab test and discussed this regimen with her PCP, I suggest she start this regimen asap using a 12-Day vitamin D3 loading schedule at 50,000 IU/day for 12 days.

Regarding others with CPH using the anti-inflammatory regimen and experiencing a favorable response... I'm not sure.† As one of the trigeminal autonomic cephalalgias (TAC), CPH is an evil sibling of CH.† The two headache disorders share much in common, so it's entirely possible that some of the 600 to 700 CHers who have stared this regimen since 2011 are likely CPHers.

My theory on the intractable nature of CH and CPH is centered on an underlying allergic reaction.† The pathogenesis of allergic reactions involves allergens attaching to Mast Cells throughout the body and brain.† Mast cells are a special type of white blood cell that's part of the immune system. They are loaded with "granules" containing histamine, prostaglandins and other pro-inflammatory agents.

When allergens attach to mast cells, this triggers the Mast Cells to degranulate releasing the histamine, prostaglandins and other pro-inflammatory agents.† Histamine and prostaglandins have been shown to stimulate the release of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) from neurons.† Several studies have also found serum concentrations of CGRP elevated during the pain phase of CH, CPH and migraines, but absent during pain free periods.

Accordingly, allergens can trigger a circular chemical chain reaction where histamine and prostaglandins released by mast cells trigger neurons within the hypothalamus and trigeminal ganglia to release CGRP and that signals the pain and inflammation we know as CH.†

It gets worse... CGRP in turn, can also stimulate mast cells to release more histamine which keeps the above circular chemical chain reaction going until one or more of the reactants are consumed and the headache ends... for now...

This is where Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) comes into play.† As a first-generation antihistamine, Diphenydramine crosses the blood brain barrier to block H1 histamine receptors on neurons throughout the brain and in particular, the hypothalamus and trigeminal ganglia.† This inhibits the histamine reaction and that helps stop the circular chain reaction.† Stopping the histamine chain reaction enables vitamin D3 to initiate the genetic expression that downregulates/suppresses the production of CGRP.

Enough of my theory of intractable CH and CPH for now... It's time to get the ball rolling with your friend.

Take care and please keep us posted on your friend's progress should she decide to give the anti-inflammatory regimen a try.

V/R, Batch
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #711 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 6:33pm
 
Hey Batch,

What do you think of alternative allergy meds to Benadryl like Claritin or Zyrtec?
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #712 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 2:52am
 
slacker032 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 6:33pm:
What do you think of alternative allergy meds to Benadryl like Claritin or Zyrtec?



It is important that what you take contains diphenhydramine or one of the other of the other first generation antihistamines that will cross the blood brain barrier, otherwise they will not be effective.

Ask your pharmacist what they contain as brand name preparations can vary between different countries.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #713 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:26pm
 
Thanks for replying.† I'm a little wary of taking of taking Benadryl after reading this article about a link between dementia and long term use of anticholinergic drugs like diphenhydramine.†

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Was hoping that other alternatives might be just as effective.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #714 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 1:27am
 
slacker032 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:26pm:
I'm a little wary of taking of taking Benadryl after reading this article about a link between dementia and long term use of anticholinergic drugs like diphenhydramine.


Looking at both articles, they are linking the risk of dementia with long term use of Benadryl. One article has the link with using it for three years and the other six years.

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Quote:
A 7- to 10-day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine hydrochloride) should be sufficient in most cases. However if the allergen source is still elevated, a 2-week course of Benadryl may be required.


There is a very significant difference in time between two weeks and 3-6 years. Although it is likely that there will still be some risk.

And do look at the potential side effects for other common CH preventives like verapamil, lithium, topamax, etc. Also consider the risks of not having a good CH preventive from any of the available options.

It is up to you to weigh up the risk, working with your doctor to get the best possible advice and outcome for you. I hope you find something that works for you.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #715 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 7:32pm
 
Thanks Mike.  Appreciate the info and advice.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #716 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 11:59am
 
Hey Slacker,

Great question regarding alternatives to Diphenhydramine.

As Mike pointed out, there's a big difference between a week to 10-day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) and taking it daily for many years.

I don't have all the answers regarding the efficacy of second- and third-generation antihistamines in counteracting the effects of histamine during an allergic reaction, or in preventing CH.   What I do know is we need to block H1 histamine receptors on neurons within the trigeminal ganglia to prevent a circular chain reaction between CGRP and mast cells containing histamine.  I also know that once that circular chain reaction starts, we're in for some heavy sledding until one or more of the chemical reactants runs out and the CH stops...

The problem with second- and third-generation antihistamine alternatives to Diphenhydramine HCL is they were designed to be "Non-Drowsy" so their molecular size, shape and function prevents them from crossing the blood brain barrier...  That means these second- and third-generation antihistamines will be less effective or not effective at all in blocking H1 histamine receptors on neurons within the brain and in our case as CHers, neurons within the trigeminal ganglia.

Now, with that said, some of the second-generation antihistamines may have the capacity to cross the blood brain barrier with a high enough concentration to block enough of the H1 histamine receptors to help us out...  That will take some dedicated experimentation.  In the mean time, a week to 10 day course of Diphenhydramine shouldn't pose a significant risk.

It's also becoming clear as more CHers take the online survey, that some of us need a higher maintenance dose than 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and a resulting higher 25(OH)D serum concentration.  Survey data to date indicate episodic CHers need an average 25(OH)D serum concentration of 80 ng/mL to remain CH pain free while chronic CHers need an average 25(OH)D serum concentration of 100 ng/mL to remain CH pain free. 

I'm a chronic CHer and after 3 years of frequent labs for 25(OH)D, I've maintained an average 25(OH)D serum concentration of 140 ng/mL.  My PCP is comfortable with this as long as my serum calcium remains within its normal reference range and my PTH is in the lower third of its normal reference range.

If you connect the dots... it appears a higher dose of vitamin D3 and higher responding 25(OH)D serum concentration may be effective in preventing CH even with an allergic reaction cooking away...

Please understand I'm not suggesting CHers maintain a 25(OH)D serum concentration higher than 100 ng/mL without having a PCP willing to assist with more frequent labs for serum calcium and PTH.

Hope this makes sense...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #717 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:50pm
 
Batch wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 11:59am:


I don't have all the answers...

V/R, Batch


I beg to differ Batch!!!!! Wink and thankfully for us you do have the answers... Not sure what my husband and I would have done without you and I know many others feel the same way.  Don't mean to hijack the conversation, but its all I could think when I read your comment. back to the topic at hand.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #718 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 5:37pm
 
CHRD wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:50pm:
Batch wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 11:59am:


I don't have all the answers...

V/R, Batch


I beg to differ Batch!!!!! Wink and thankfully for us you do have the answers... Not sure what my husband and I would have done without you and I know many others feel the same way.† Don't mean to hijack the conversation, but its all I could think when I read your comment. back to the topic at hand.


Batch is very much correct in that he doesn't have all the answers.

But what he has done is to crack open enough of the CH puzzle to enable the D3 regime to make such a difference to so many of us.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #719 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 8:14pm
 
Hey Batch,

Great info as always.  Thanks.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #720 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 1:40pm
 
Which brand of B-50 Complex do you guys recommend?  I was checking out this one but looks like it's missing Paba  - (As Para-Aminobenzoic Acid) which is in some of the other brands like Nature's Plus.  Is it necessary?

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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #721 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 4:50pm
 
Have a look at these

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get them on iherb.com
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #722 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 5:45pm
 
Thanks Thierry.  Just ordered the Nature's Way.
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #723 - Oct 1st, 2017 at 3:02pm
 
Are most of you still using the Nature Made 1200mg fish oil?† I'm wondering how much the EPA to DHA ratio matters for efficacy.†
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Re: Anti-Inflammatory Vitamin D3 Regimen and Survey
Reply #724 - Jan 17th, 2018 at 10:52am
 
Bump
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