Quote:


And I, too, admire Batch for all his work on the anti-inflammatory regimen. He deserves much praise and all the accolades we can muster. It was my springboard for my trying the D3+Vimovo. I just want to say that I think a lot of people aren't understanding that taking an NSAID by itself or the D3 by itself is nowhere near as effective as both together.

Here's a link to a  are a couple of links to academic articles which outline the synergistic effectiveness of D3+Naproxen in reducing prostaglandin:

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and the operative quote from this article:

"The group saw a 25 percent reduction in prostate cell growth using only calcitriol (D3), and approximately the same reduction using only ibuprofen and naproxen. But when they combined calcitriol and an NSAID, they saw up to a 70 percent reduction. This result was obtained using from one-half to one-tenth the concentration required for either of the drugs used alone."

The mechanisms of 'prostate cell growth' are not that simple, but they are essentially predicated on prostaglandin levels. The observations are that D3+Naproxen has a synergistic effect when combined that are dramatically greater than either by themselves, requiring much lower doses of both to be effective in lowering your prostaglandin levels. To my thinking, this sounds much better than having to take very high doses of either one, which either requires you to monitor your 25(OH)D levels or run the risks of taking consistently high doses of an NSAID like Naproxen.

I know it seems hard to believe that some garden variety Advil or Naproxen, in combination with Vitamin D3 can stop your CHs. Certainly, I found out very quickly after becoming a CH sufferer back in 2007 that Advil alone won't abort an attack anywhere near quickly enough to be effective once a CH is coming on. But when I took the Advil (Ibuprofen) WITH the D3 around the clock for those 5 days as a test of my theory, in 2x400mg doses at breakfast, lunch and dinner, BEFORE I felt any CH coming on, and didn't get any headaches, it was like a bolt of pain-free lightning striking for me. I knew I was on to something that really works.

As for the idea that episodic CH'ers don't have an inflammation problem when they're out of cycle, I'm not so sure about that. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that what makes you chronic rather than episodic is the amount of prostaglandin potential you have in your system. This is >probably< based on a combination of how much arachidonic acid you have in your system, which is the 'fuel' for prostaglandin production, and how much COX-2 production you have to convert the arachidonic acid into prostaglandin. Simply put, what I'm saying is, the existence of not quite enough COX-2 to put you into a CH cycle may not necessarily mean you don't have an inflammation problem. It just might mean you don't have enough to give you CHs, but it could still well be too high to be good for you.

As for prednisone, it's a whole different ball game than the Naproxen in Vimovo. Prednisone is a cortico-steroid, and that spells serious trouble for many systems in your body over time. Read the 'Side effects' section of this link to get an idea of just how bad prednisone can be:

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anubis44 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 10:43am:

 

Maybe it's the D3 not the naproxen,

                   Potter

anubis44 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 3:02pm:

   
Nope ten years pf.  I Bust em with something far safer than naproxen.

                     Potter

Hi Anubis,
You certainly make a very convincing  on the pros and cons of Vimovo + D3, but, now you are CH free without taking the Vimovo, I'm still wondering whether or not it's due to the vitamin D regimen finally kicking in.

I remember when I started the vitamin D regimen back in the Spring of 2012 in the middle of my cycle and the  went crazy from 2 episodes/day to 6/day, I nearly gave up taking it, but my wife convinced me to stay on it, well, to cut a long story short it didn't stop my cycle, but I kept taking the regimen and the rests history.

I find with the Melatonin! I take 5mg before going to bed to help me sleep, but if you take more than 5mg it's best to take it 2hrs before going to bed so as not to wake up feeling drowsy.

Cheers Hoppy

Anubis wrote,Over the last 3 days or so, I've noticed signs of increasing inflammation. My joints in my hand started to ache a bit more, and my back has been more sore than over the previous 3 months when I woke in the morning. Still, I decided to soldier on with just the D3 and no Vimovo for the sake of science.

Maybe check in with a Headache Specialist, just to be sure they are CH's your suffering from.

Hoppy

Anubis wrote, I get the drooping eyelid, the nasal drip in the same side nostril as the pain, the usually clockwork like pain just behind one of my eyes (always the same eye) on a 12 or 24 hour cycle (unless I push them around with an NSAID by itself, with no D3), the pain lasts predictably from 20 minutes to 1 hour, without the current regimen I'm taking, alcohol is an almost certain trigger, even in very small quantities, etc. etc. etc.

I'm sorry to have to say, but they don't sound like CH's to me, that's why it's always best to check in with a Headache Specialist for a proper diagnosis! Because the majority of neuros aren't up to speed when it comes to diagnosing CH's 

Hoppy

Hoppy wrote on Feb 14^th, 2016 at 11:54pm:


Oh my goodness. Nice try. Now I suspect you're just trying to make a nuisance of yourself. You must really have a bee in your bonnet that I found an effective way to stop CHs once and for all. It must gall the crap out of you that it boils down to something as simple as high dose vitamin D3 plus a safe version of naproxen, in the form of Vimovo.

My specialist is the leading expert on CHs in Ottawa. He is a renowned, recognized expert, specifically on CHs.

From the wikipedia entry on CH:

"The typical symptoms of cluster headache include grouped occurrence and recurrence (cluster) of headache attack, severe unilateral orbital, supraorbital and/or temporal pain. If left untreated, attack frequency may range from one attack every two days to eight attacks per day.[2][3] Cluster headache attack is accompanied by at least one of the following autonomic symptoms: drooping eyelid, pupil constriction, redness of the conjunctiva, tearing, runny nose, and less commonly, facial blushing, swelling, or sweating, typically appearing on the same side of the head as the pain.[2]"

I get all of these. The severity of the pain is also exactly as described by other sufferers, re: excruciating to 'man, maybe suicide isn't such a bad idea after all.'

What, pray-tell, about my symptoms doesn't sound like CHs to you, Dr. Hoppy?

Wow! I get the identical symptoms to Anubis, have done for almost 40 years, and only now must I question the diagnosis of doctors, neurologists and headache specialists across the country.

The simple fact that painkillers have helped me from time to time proves all experts have wasted decades in medical training.

What do you reckon, Anubis, we book in for Preg Tests because patently we don't have CH.

Hoppy wrote on Feb 15^th, 2016 at 1:03am:


And did anybody try combing the D3 with an NSAID in that whole time on a consistent basis? I don't see ONE mention of this approach on this site. If there is one, please by all means point me to it.

Have you been reading what I've said? Do you understand that I myself would laugh at anybody who suggested Ibuprofen or Naproxen on their own, and as an abortive? Do you get this? Do you also get that there are academic papers written about the shockingly surprising effectiveness of calcitrol (D3) in high doses when combined with an NSAID like Ibuprofen or Naproxen for certain, inflammation-fed cancers, such as some forms of prostate and breast cancer? Who'd have thought that? Certainly not ME, before I tried it myself. Have you even tried D3+either the Ibuprofen I've suggested just as a test, or the Vimovo yourself? If not, how the HELL do you know if it works or not?

It's very, VERY important that you understand that the whole approach I'm taking is as a preventative, not an abortive. I'm not waiting until I start to get a CH to take Vimovo/D3. I started with the D3, as per Batch's regimen. I was taking vast amounts of D3 taking it every day, and it somewhat weakened, but didn't seem to halt my CHs.

Finally, just because I had read about the synergy between calcitrol (D3) and NSAIDs when COMBINED, I decided to give it a whirl. What did I have to loose? I had a whole bottle of Ibuprofen, and if it didn't work, no big deal. I MYSELF was skeptical. So I started taking the Ibuprofen (2x400mg) at lunch time only, with my D3. That started pushing my CHs around, but it didn't stop them altogether. So I started taking the Ibuprofen 2x400mg in the morning, 2x400mg at lunch with the D3, and 2x400mg in the evening. And guess what. The CHs stopped. So long as I took 3 doses of 2x400mg per day, along with the 10,000iu of D3, they stopped. So I decided to research more. Since Ibuprofen only lasts 4-6 hours per dose, I needed an NSAID that was more long-lasting. I noticed Naproxen, and balked at the potential side-effects, but then I came across Vimovo. Effective for 12-24 hours, as it is a slow-release formula. Doesn't tend to make your stomach bleed because of the Esomeprazole Magnesium. Hmmm, I'll give that a try.

At first, with the round the clock Ibuprofen stopped, my CHs returned, albeit in much less frequent and weaker form than before the Ibuprofen, then after 18 days of fewer and fewer, weaker and weaker CHs, they tapered down to zero by Nov. 2nd. What more do you want from me? It worked. I can't help it if it worked. Do you want me to lie, and say it DIDN'T work?

Jesus. Get over it. It worked for me, and continues to do so. And yes, I REALLY AM a chronic CH-sufferer. I admit I stumbled across a seemingly unlikely treatment, but a completely effective treatment it has been for me since Nov. 2nd. Am I saying EVERYBODY with CH can take this? No. Some people with stomach ulcers or a history of stomach bleeds may not be able to take the D3+Vimovo. That is a call your doctor has to make. When I told mine about the surprising results I saw just taking the D3 with the Ibuprofen, mine said 'Hmm. Interesting. There is some research to suggest a powerful anti-inflammatory synergy when D3+an NSAID are combined in the literature. No problem! Go for it! See if it works, 'cause I all have left for you in the chronic toolkit is more prednisone, or botox injections in your neck, or an occipital block,' none of which I relished. When I mentioned the possible concerns about the Naproxen in the Vimovo, he himself called the risks triffling as compared to the potential side-effects of Verapamil at near max doses and prednisone. I didn't make that call, my DOCTOR did. I'm just echoing his sentiment, because for me, somebody with no heart-disease, and no ulcers or history of stomach bleeds, it was more than an acceptably low-risk.

I tried it, and it really worked. Not a single CH in over 3 months, AND I get a very, very faint shadow as a warning if I stay off the Vimovo for a certain number of days, to let me know that I'd better take one with my next D3. I can drink alcohol, I can eat dark chocolate, I can eat MSG, all without so much as a faint shadow. Beat that.

Sorry, Anubis posted while I was typing !!

colin

Anubis wrote, Do you get this.

Well, I'm doing my best to do so, but you keep contradicting yourself.

You wrote,(unless I push them around with an NSAID by itself, with no D3), the pain lasts predictably from 20 minutes to 1 hour.

I'm trying to work out what part of this, you wrote, I don't get. Is it this bit.

unless I push them around with an NSAID by itself, the pain lasts predictably from 20 minutes to 1 hour.

Hoppy

OK, now for one more  , are you taking the whole vitamin D regimen, that's all the cofactors Batch recommends.

Hoppy

I started on the regimen midway through my 2012 Spring cycle, didn't work for me either, but stayed on it for the rest of my cycle and still taking it everyday, I haven't seen or heard from the  since.

Cheers  Hoppy